Junior football, what is the future?

[Cyclizine]

7 minutes ago, mcruic said:

I did mention above I'd veered off topic   It was originally because some posters on this thread had said that clubs should be ready to travel nationally once they reached a certain level, and I was trying to point out that Scotland really shouldn't have 4 national divisions, and clubs should be able to play regionally higher up the pyramid than they do now.

 Ah, this old chestnut again... the clubs in our national divisions seem to manage perfectly fine playing nationally. There is no clamour from them to play in regional leagues. Why do you think they should? They won't get higher attendances and the costs won't be smaller. If the clubs thought they'd be better playing in regional leagues then they'd be pushing for it. They're not.

[Marshmallo]

30 minutes ago, mcruic said:

In the 2nd tier (national), Luch Vladivostok to Baltika Kaliningrad is just the 1,366 miles (5 hour flight or 25 hour drive).  Luch have an average home crowd of 1,900, which is about the same as Raith Rovers.  The approximate equivalent for Raith Rovers would be going to a league match in Vienna.

This means nothing to me

[Jimmy Shaker]

1 hour ago, welshbairn said:

Reminds me of the mad medical student in Edinburgh who played for Fort William, no hotel for him though for Wick away on a wet Tuesday night! Can't find a newspaper article, think it was just on the BBC documentary.

Josh Knowles. 

And why are midweek Highland League games always wet. 

[welshbairn]

4 minutes ago, Jimmy Shaker said:

Josh Knowles. 

And why are midweek Highland League games always wet. 

If you can't get your wick wet in Wick you never will. So my Grandad said.

[Robert James]

3 minutes ago, welshbairn said:

If you can't get your wick wet in Wick you never will. So my Grandad said.

A wick-ed comment.

[Enigma]

In the 2nd tier (national), Luch Vladivostok to Baltika Kaliningrad is just the 1,366 miles (5 hour flight or 25 hour drive).  Luch have an average home crowd of 1,900, which is about the same as Raith Rovers.  The approximate equivalent for Raith Rovers would be going to a league match in Vienna.

Kaliningrad to Vladivostok is a far longer distance than Kirkcaldy to Vienna.

[Ray Patterson]

14 minutes ago, Enigma said:

 

Kaliningrad to Vladivostok is a far longer distance than Kirkcaldy to Vienna.

 

It's not but Kaliningrad to Vladivostok is a 10,500km long journey that would take 12hr plane journey or a 131hr car journey. So no clue where his figures came from.

[mcruic]

2 hours ago, Cyclizine said:

 Ah, this old chestnut again... the clubs in our national divisions seem to manage perfectly fine playing nationally. There is no clamour from them to play in regional leagues. Why do you think they should? They won't get higher attendances and the costs won't be smaller. If the clubs thought they'd be better playing in regional leagues then they'd be pushing for it. They're not.

I accept the clubs don't seem to want it.

In 2018-19, most of the clubs in Leagues 1 and 2 would have had higher attendances (by 5-20%) if the leagues had been split north/south.  There would also be less travel.  Maybe 5 or 6 at the boundaries of the north/south "divide" would have had slightly lower attendances.

But that doesn't seem to be enough for them to go for it - so I can accept that. 

Another main reason is because of the way the league structure is - you've got  11 of the 20 teams with some kind of "action" at the end of the season (promoted/play-offs/relegated).  With 2 regional divisions, you might only have 6 clubs in these positions (2 promoted, 2 promotion play-offs, 2 relegation play-offs).  Not many other countries have teams one place above mid-table playing in promotion play-offs.  So I can see the attraction of the current setup for the teams that are in it.

But attendances of 200 (or less) don't really show that things are working for some clubs.

Edited July 25, 2020 by mcruic

[mcruic]

33 minutes ago, ArabAuslander said:

It's not but Kaliningrad to Vladivostok is a 10,500km long journey that would take 12hr plane journey or a 131hr car journey. So no clue where his figures came from.

I typed Volgograd instead of Vladivostok - good to know people are paying attention to off-topic posts!

 

It's the equivalent of Raith Rovers going to Ho Chi Minh City or Lima for a league match.

Edited July 25, 2020 by mcruic

[mcruic]

1 hour ago, Robert James said:

A wick-ed comment.

If you can't get your Wick wet on Wednesday in Wick, you can always get soaked thoroughly through in Thurso on a Thursday. 

[Marshmallo]

6 hours ago, mcruic said:

But attendances of 200 (or less) don't really show that things are working for some clubs.

What attendance figure do we need to get to in order for things to be working?

[parsforlife]

8 hours ago, mcruic said:

I accept the clubs don't seem to want it.

In 2018-19, most of the clubs in Leagues 1 and 2 would have had higher attendances (by 5-20%) if the leagues had been split north/south.  There would also be less travel.  Maybe 5 or 6 at the boundaries of the north/south "divide" would have had slightly lower attendances.

But that doesn't seem to be enough for them to go for it - so I can accept that. 

Another main reason is because of the way the league structure is - you've got  11 of the 20 teams with some kind of "action" at the end of the season (promoted/play-offs/relegated).  With 2 regional divisions, you might only have 6 clubs in these positions (2 promoted, 2 promotion play-offs, 2 relegation play-offs).  Not many other countries have teams one place above mid-table playing in promotion play-offs.  So I can see the attraction of the current setup for the teams that are in it.

But attendances of 200 (or less) don't really show that things are working for some clubs.

You can’t just make things up. On what basis are you saying 20% bigger crowds?   Only really Albion Rovers and Edinburgh city ever get crowds of 200 and that’s rearranged mid-week games.  If you take Edinburgh city their crowds have gone up massively as a result of being promoted and playing national football.(as has been the case every for every team that has made the step up.)

[FairWeatherFan]

14 minutes ago, parsforlife said:

You can’t just make things up. On what basis are you saying 20% bigger crowds?   Only really Albion Rovers and Edinburgh city ever get crowds of 200 and that’s rearranged mid-week games.  If you take Edinburgh city their crowds have gone up massively as a result of being promoted and playing national football.(as has been the case every for every team that has made the step up.)

Albion Rovers 2019-20 home league attendances. All on Saturdays

1. 04/01/20    Stirling Albion    484
2. 31/08/19    Stirling Albion    355
3. 10/08/19    Cove Rangers    347
4. 24/08/19    Brechin City    323
5. 01/02/20    Cove Rangers    292
6. 29/02/20    Elgin City    283
7. 08/02/20    Brechin City    282
8. 21/09/19    Edinburgh City    276
9. 05/10/19    Elgin City    275
10. 07/12/19    Queens Park    273
11. 21/12/19    Annan Athletic    210
12. 09/11/19    Stenhousemuir    209

[parsforlife]

14 minutes ago, FairWeatherFan said:

Albion Rovers 2019-20 home league attendances. All on Saturdays

1. 04/01/20    Stirling Albion    484
2. 31/08/19    Stirling Albion    355
3. 10/08/19    Cove Rangers    347
4. 24/08/19    Brechin City    323
5. 01/02/20    Cove Rangers    292
6. 29/02/20    Elgin City    283
7. 08/02/20    Brechin City    282
8. 21/09/19    Edinburgh City    276
9. 05/10/19    Elgin City    275
10. 07/12/19    Queens Park    273
11. 21/12/19    Annan Athletic    210
12. 09/11/19    Stenhousemuir    209

Their top 7 attended games were against teams they’d be in a different region too.  

[FairWeatherFan]

2 hours ago, parsforlife said:

Their top 7 attended games were against teams they’d be in a different region too.  

That's the point. Not only that Stenhousemuir would of been their closest opponent after Queen's Park and the Stenhousemuir game is their lowest attendance. You've also got two games against Cove, Brechin, and Elgin in their top ten. So that's distance and repitition that's meant to lower crowds, not really doing that in practice.

Edited July 26, 2020 by FairWeatherFan

[Ped]

End of the day the lines been set the lowland actively encouraged a new league to be set up in there boundary they have no desire to set up 1 outwith there boundary so unless tayside teams start making enquiries either setting up there own Midlands league merging with north superleague and start dialogue with highland league then it will never happen as I've said before the days of the pyramid throwing open invites and compromising with teams are gone the lowland have there leagues evenly balanced now and highland league haven't the same appetite to help set up new leagues like what the lowland did with WOSFL 

[Jacksgranda]

15 hours ago, Jimmy Shaker said:

Josh Knowles. 

And why are midweek Highland League games always wet. 

Because they're always in November

Edited July 26, 2020 by Jacksgranda
sllepnig

[welshbairn]

Folk interested in their numbers might find this interesting.

http://www.scottishleague.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=4620

[Andy groundhopper]

Interesting numbers game there, only problem is that what happens when a headcount says 50 but admissions say 75, someone pocketing the difference ? Surely a club has to produce documents on income/expenses every season ?  Guesswork wouldn't stand up legally ?  In my opinion, any club who can attract 200+ up to Lowland level, and then 350 above that,is doing well.

[glensmad]

So SJC 1st round 39 ties, 25 byes  any announcement saying when the games are getting played.

They can't do that till the senior leagues announce their fixture schedules. The SJC will have to be fitted in after the senior leagues have set their intentions.