Junior football, what is the future?

[FairWeatherFan]

14 minutes ago, mcruic said:

Montrose Roselea benefitted from joining the North Juniors due to their geography, and the fact they played in a regionwide league (ERSJA Premier, which had  some 100-mile trips to the Lothians.  Their average travel distance in the North Superleague is about 56 miles - which is actually more than it would be if they went back to the ERSJFA now with its Tayside/Lothian structure.  Their longest trip would be 45 miles to Scone.  It's actually not that much less travelling than they had in the ERSJFA Premier on average (56 miles compared to 71), despite their statement at the time describing it as if they were travelling hundreds of miles further than they would in the North.

 

When I was looking up something on FitbaNorth, I found that Montrose Roselea had actually tried to get into the North Region in early 2009. This was at a time when the East Region was Super-Premier-(North, Central, South). They obviously found something more attractive going North to have pursued it for so long.

And miles doesn't always equal journey time.

[mcruic]

2 minutes ago, FairWeatherFan said:

When I was looking up something on FitbaNorth, I found that Montrose Roselea had actually tried to get into the North Region in early 2009. This was at a time when the East Region was Super-Premier-(North, Central, South). They obviously found something more attractive going North to have pursued it for so long.

And miles doesn't always equal journey time.

Yeah - lot more congestion going south - and possibly midweek matches compounded the issue.  One reason why they didn't join the North when they first thought about it was that the route up the leagues would have meant starting at the bottom, which at that time was filled with Moray teams.

 

[LongTimeLurker]

5 minutes ago, mcruic said:

Montrose Roselea benefitted from joining the North Juniors due to their geography, and the fact they played in a regionwide league (ERSJA Premier, which had  some 100-mile trips to the Lothians...

The trip to Dunbar was the one they tended to highlight at the time. They were one of the clubs that benefited least from the east region's switch to 16-16-16/16 as it placed them in a division with lots of travel but with few teams that would bring much in the way of an away support. It was somewhat ironic that after complaining about the trip to Dunbar their first season in the North Region had them playing league games in Grantown-on-Spey, because they were based further west than Aberdeen and were placed in a west division mainly containing clubs from Nairnshire, Moray and Banffshire.

[Robert James]

9 hours ago, LongTimeLurker said:

A question probably best asked on Fitba North where most Highland League people post rather than on here. As things stand at the moment, you never see Tayside mentioned in articles like this:

https://www.northern-times.co.uk/sport/promotion-and-relegation-could-be-introduced-to-the-highland-league-196481/

even as a future possibility in addition to the NCL and north region.

Will Clark's article "Promotion & Relegation could be introduced to the Highland League next season" was published in April this year" .  The HFL was quoted as being in support of this proposal.

However, both the North Juniors and the North Caledonian League have held their AGM's recently, without reference to pyramid entry.  Three months on, surely both leagues should issue some kind of update ?

Perhaps it is time for the intrepid Mr Clark, to follow up the apparent 'impasse' with the 3 leagues concerned, and publishhis views ?

[whitburn exile]

7 hours ago, Whitburn Vale said:

Yeah they know of Livi United"s interest in the EoS.

What is intriguing is the level of work that has been undertaken at Central Park,it's looking good,only floodlights missing for now.

And the sooner the committee realise the juniors is gone and move to eosl the better

[Marshmallo]

If there was to be a "Midland" league or floater teams then it should be the likes of Stirling or parts of Fife - not Angus or Dundee.

[Andy groundhopper]

Maybe it's coz I'm from Bristol and we have so many teams from County to Southern Lge all within an hour's drive at most, what sort of mileage is deemed unreasonable in Scotland ? 50+ miles ? Think a Midlands Lge would be great, based in one area. All for the future, definitely wouldn't rule it out just yet !

[cmontheloknow]

12 hours ago, Andy groundhopper said:

Maybe it's coz I'm from Bristol and we have so many teams from County to Southern Lge all within an hour's drive at most, what sort of mileage is deemed unreasonable in Scotland ? 50+ miles ? Think a Midlands Lge would be great, based in one area. All for the future, definitely wouldn't rule it out just yet !

Anecdotally, complaints start to arise the more the game on a saturday afternoon takes over the whole day. "I want a round of golf on a saturday morning and if we're playing away at (X) I cannot do that".

And for the record up thread, 53 ex West Region clubs retaining SJFA membership for the coming season.

[Whitburn Vale]

13 hours ago, whitburn exile said:

And the sooner the committee realise the juniors is gone and move to eosl the better

100% w/e 

[Ginaro]

113=30 East + 33 North +50 West

[mcruic]

I find it interesting that some junior/now senior teams are baulking at travel, but you've got teams like Fort William who seem to manage somehow despite very little success and despite the added costs of Highland League membership. 

Kinlochleven is only 22 miles away from Fort William, and their amateur team (South Lochaber Thistle) - who incidentally beat Fort William away in a 2018 pre-season friendly - play in the Greater Glasgow Premier Amateur League - where pretty much every away match is a 100-mile trip.  I'm sure they've got a lot of players from the Glasgow area in the team, but they do play at home - and clubs have to travel the 100 miles to Kinlochleven to play them.

You've also got Lochgilphead Red Star playing in the Scottish Amateur Football League - where many teams are from the Glasgow area, 90-100 miles away.  There's also other teams from out west in that league - Campbeltown, Dunoon, etc.  Campbeltown to Glasgow is over 130 miles.  You've also got Rothesay and Rhu in the Caledonian Amateur League, which also has teams from Stirlingshire - 60 or 70 mile trips.  These teams have played in these leagues for years.

So, how do these amateur teams manage to find the funds to travel year in year out?  Fewer overheads giving them more money to spend on travelling?  Something else?

 

[Bad Wolf]

3 hours ago, mcruic said:

I find it interesting that some junior/now senior teams are baulking at travel, but you've got teams like Fort William who seem to manage somehow despite very little success and despite the added costs of Highland League membership. 

Kinlochleven is only 22 miles away from Fort William, and their amateur team (South Lochaber Thistle) - who incidentally beat Fort William away in a 2018 pre-season friendly - play in the Greater Glasgow Premier Amateur League - where pretty much every away match is a 100-mile trip.  I'm sure they've got a lot of players from the Glasgow area in the team, but they do play at home - and clubs have to travel the 100 miles to Kinlochleven to play them.

You've also got Lochgilphead Red Star playing in the Scottish Amateur Football League - where many teams are from the Glasgow area, 90-100 miles away.  There's also other teams from out west in that league - Campbeltown, Dunoon, etc.  Campbeltown to Glasgow is over 130 miles.  You've also got Rothesay and Rhu in the Caledonian Amateur League, which also has teams from Stirlingshire - 60 or 70 mile trips.  These teams have played in these leagues for years.

So, how do these amateur teams manage to find the funds to travel year in year out?  Fewer overheads giving them more money to spend on travelling?  Something else?

 

My local rugby team in Moffat manage to cope perfectly well playing in a division with teams from Bonhill, Dunoon and Fort William, with crowds on a par with their (sort of) football-playing neighbours in the dreaded SOSL, which is to say also on a par with most joonyur sides outside of the top dozen or so. 

[GNU_Linux]

My local rugby team in Moffat manage to cope perfectly well playing in a division with teams from Bonhill, Dunoon and Fort William, with crowds on a par with their (sort of) football-playing neighbours in the dreaded SOSL, which is to say also on a par with most joonyur sides outside of the top dozen or so. 

Rugby teams have access to centralised funding from the SRU for travel costs/expenses. Don't know how it works in detail however.

[santheman]

3 hours ago, mcruic said:

I find it interesting that some junior/now senior teams are baulking at travel, but you've got teams like Fort William who seem to manage somehow despite very little success and despite the added costs of Highland League membership. 

Kinlochleven is only 22 miles away from Fort William, and their amateur team (South Lochaber Thistle) - who incidentally beat Fort William away in a 2018 pre-season friendly - play in the Greater Glasgow Premier Amateur League - where pretty much every away match is a 100-mile trip.  I'm sure they've got a lot of players from the Glasgow area in the team, but they do play at home - and clubs have to travel the 100 miles to Kinlochleven to play them.

You've also got Lochgilphead Red Star playing in the Scottish Amateur Football League - where many teams are from the Glasgow area, 90-100 miles away.  There's also other teams from out west in that league - Campbeltown, Dunoon, etc.  Campbeltown to Glasgow is over 130 miles.  You've also got Rothesay and Rhu in the Caledonian Amateur League, which also has teams from Stirlingshire - 60 or 70 mile trips.  These teams have played in these leagues for years.

So, how do these amateur teams manage to find the funds to travel year in year out?  Fewer overheads giving them more money to spend on travelling?  Something else?

 

I would imagine that in the case of some teams the players fund travel plans themselves.

Whether that means 5/6 players taking their cars and sharing the petrol cost with the passengers or in the case of one team I know running a weekly bonus ball among the players to cover travel costs. The club also gives them some dosh as and when they can afford it.

It seems to cover the cost most seasons for them.

 

[Bad Wolf]

9 minutes ago, GNU_Linux said:

27 minutes ago, Bad Wolf said:

My local rugby team in Moffat manage to cope perfectly well playing in a division with teams from Bonhill, Dunoon and Fort William, with crowds on a par with their (sort of) football-playing neighbours in the dreaded SOSL, which is to say also on a par with most joonyur sides outside of the top dozen or so. 

Rugby teams have access to centralised funding from the SRU for travel costs/expenses. Don't know how it works in detail however.

Thanks, I think I had heard that at some point, but had forgotten. Perhaps if the SJFA had used their tidy six figure bank balance to do the same in the past, then they might have something resembling a future.

[Andy groundhopper]

Wonder how many junior now senior clubs could get hold of a minibus for away games, ideal for a local sponsor to help out eh ?  Probably find the amateurs car share and just enjoy the game and a day out , rather than worry about a few miles on the clock. Maybe these new senior players could take it in turn to hire a van for the day,how thoughtful.

[Ginaro]

18 minutes ago, GNU_Linux said:

36 minutes ago, Bad Wolf said:

My local rugby team in Moffat manage to cope perfectly well playing in a division with teams from Bonhill, Dunoon and Fort William, with crowds on a par with their (sort of) football-playing neighbours in the dreaded SOSL, which is to say also on a par with most joonyur sides outside of the top dozen or so. 

Rugby teams have access to centralised funding from the SRU for travel costs/expenses. Don't know how it works in detail however.

Thought it was only for the islands but there is funding for long journeys of 200+ miles, see page 19.

https://s3-eu-west-1.amazonaws.com/sru-files/files/Minimum_Operating_Standards_2019_20.pdf

Though there's also fewer games for rugby teams - 22 for the national leagues and 18 for the regional leagues.

[mcruic]

1 hour ago, Ginaro said:

Thought it was only for the islands but there is funding for long journeys of 200+ miles, see page 19.

https://s3-eu-west-1.amazonaws.com/sru-files/files/Minimum_Operating_Standards_2019_20.pdf

Though there's also fewer games for rugby teams - 22 for the national leagues and 18 for the regional leagues.

Football is clearly the most popular game in Scotland, but for some reason the turnover for the SFA is around 35-40 million per annum, while the SRU's turnover was 61 million in 2018-19.

The SFA distributes about a third of its turnover as payouts to its members (11 million quid per year).  Not sure how far down this goes, or if members means "member clubs" or "member organisations" also.

The SRU has given an average of 3 million quid per year to grassroots rugby over the last 5 years. 

Edited July 25, 2020 by mcruic

[GNU_Linux]

Football is clearly the most popular game in Scotland, but for some reason the turnover for the SFA is around 35-40 million per annum, while the SRU's turnover was 61 million in 2018-19.
The SFA distributes about a third of its turnover as payouts to its members (11 million quid per year).  Not sure how far down this goes, or if members means "member clubs" or "member organisations" also.
The SRU has given an average of 3 million quid per year to grassroots rugby over the last 5 years. 

SRU income is probably higher on account of rugby internationals having higher gates compared to football. SRU might get a cut of Edinburgh Rugby gates as well on account of SRU owning Murrayfield & iirc the SRU have stake in the two professional Pro14 teams.

[FairWeatherFan]

1 minute ago, GNU_Linux said:

10 minutes ago, mcruic said:

Football is clearly the most popular game in Scotland, but for some reason the turnover for the SFA is around 35-40 million per annum, while the SRU's turnover was 61 million in 2018-19.
The SFA distributes about a third of its turnover as payouts to its members (11 million quid per year).  Not sure how far down this goes, or if members means "member clubs" or "member organisations" also.
The SRU has given an average of 3 million quid per year to grassroots rugby over the last 5 years. 

SRU income is probably higher on account of rugby internationals having higher gates compared to football. SRU might get a cut of Edinburgh Rugby gates as well on account of SRU owning Murrayfield & iirc the SRU have stake in the two professional Pro14 teams.

I was going to say, doesn't SRU own the professional sides. So they get income from national & club rugby in a different ways than what the SFA can.