Junior football, what is the future?

[jimbaxters]

9 minutes ago, cmontheloknow said:

well it's quite close to the English border!

Maybe they should apply to the Isle of Man league.

[jimbaxters]

14 hours ago, invergowrie arab said:

If you have aspirations to play league football I don't see how any of this matters. You need to be prepared to play in Wick or Berwick.

If you don't then decline  promotion. 

 

This x 1000. Never understood this reluctance to travel.

[welshbairn]

1 hour ago, LongTimeLurker said:

A question probably best asked on Fitba North where most Highland League people post rather than on here. As things stand at the moment, you never see Tayside mentioned in articles like this:

https://www.northern-times.co.uk/sport/promotion-and-relegation-could-be-introduced-to-the-highland-league-196481/

even as a future possibility in addition to the NCL and north region.

I was more wary of Tayside getting involved before the NCL seemed to be getting their act together, a combination of the North Juniors and Tayside forming a new Superleague would have left tier 6 as an Aberdeenshire and Tayside parochial thing. Don't think most people on Fitbanorth care much about it either way, though a few of us were looking forward to an away day in Brechin next season. According to the massively uninformed North Juniors acting boss there is no interest in it, in fact he'd never heard it even mentioned as an issue, and there seems to be no desire for it on Tayside either, so I think it is unlikely to happen.

[Jacksgranda]

What do the Tayside clubs want? Stay junior? Go senior? If the latter, do they want to go north/south/form their own league?

[LongTimeLurker]

18 minutes ago, Jacksgranda said:

What do the Tayside clubs want? Stay junior? Go senior? If the latter, do they want to go north/south/form their own league?

The east region were claiming on their website that they were in at tier 6 as an LL feeder with SFA approval as recently as the end of 2018-19 season, so it's obvious where they saw their future at that point. In a pyramid feeder to the LL rather than the HL. The problem for them was that the EoS held a veto over any change to the playoff format into the LL, so the east region couldn't get in and the WoS had to be formed earlier this year before the west region could gain entry.

As things stand now the east region have a Tayside league and a West Lothian League. The former would be a good fit as an HL tier 6 feeder, if the Club 42 boundary was being enforced (only slight outlier would be Tayport),  but the east region Tayside League is not participating in the working group on the north pyramid with the HL, NCL and north region and never rates a mention in media coverage of what is happening with the north pyramid.

There has been some talk of a Midland League on a podcast (by locheeboy who posts on here), but they would need to get all of the SFA, LL, WoS, EoS and SoS to sign off to get in as an LL feeder, which looks unlikely. As things stand at the moment if the Highland League pathway isn't being actively pursued, it looks like the only viable way in is to do what Luncarty did despite being north of the Club 42 boundary and apply to the EoS and hope the membership approves their application.

Edited July 24, 2020 by LongTimeLurker

[cmontheloknow]

1 hour ago, FairWeatherFan said:

On FN you'll find the same chat as you'll find on here. Those for Tayside inclusion, those against it. Those with a variety of solutions to how the pyramid should be amended: 3 way split (with Tayside included or not included North), 4 way split (North, Central, West & East), Highland League 2 etc. Those that know the Highland League is open to application so just apply if a club is interested. Its just like here on topics of the pyramid but with a Northern focus.

As for why Tayside Juniors aren't including in talks over the pyramid. There's no Tayside league to negotiate with.

Most changes down are club driven. The WoSFL only happened because clubs went to the LL. The last Highland League expansion only happened because Formartine United applied after getting annoyed with the North Region over how they were relegated. That triggered other clubs applying. Otherwise the Highland League were happy going along with a 15 team league. Kelty triggered other clubs looking closer at the EoSFL as a viable option.

What was Formartine's issue over relgation in'08?

[Jacksgranda]

It wisnae fair.

[FairWeatherFan]

3 minutes ago, cmontheloknow said:

What was Formartine's issue over relgation in'08?

Due to the ground criteria that the North Superleague has, they were hoping/expecting a reprieve from relegation as Lewis United didn't have a suitable ground.

Lewis United had played the entire season away from home and what they lined up as a Superleague groundshare wasn't considered good enough for a previous club(?). Something like that.

[Ginaro]

3 hours ago, Whitburn Vale said:

Yeah,they're well aware of that ginaro.

I sensed a slight warming to the enivitable path that is the pyramid and the EoS but when I asked the question about the possibility of Tayside clubs being involved they grew decidedly cold to the idea.

Presumably they also know about Livingston United's EOS application? Might only take one more club to go public saying they're leaving to help bring about the inevitable...

[FairWeatherFan]

2 minutes ago, Ginaro said:

Presumably they also know about Livingston United's EOS application? Might only take one more club to go public saying they're leaving to help bring about the inevitable...

Livingston United applying, the creation of the WoSFL and Luncarty getting in should at least galvanise them and everyone else to at least try and get into the EoSFL.

[Jimi Shandrix]

35 minutes ago, Jacksgranda said:

What do the Tayside clubs want? Stay junior? Go senior? If the latter, do they want to go north/south/form their own league?

This is the main problem. There is no common consensus between clubs. Even within clubs there are a lot of differing opinions so don't see much happening anytime soon. A senior midlands league to sit alongside north, south and west seems the most logical solution to me but many would disagree. Given the choice between north or south, personally it would be north for me.

[Jacksgranda]

6 minutes ago, Jimi Shandrix said:

This is the main problem. There is no common consensus between clubs. Even within clubs there are a lot of differing opinions so don't see much happening anytime soon. A senior midlands league to sit alongside north, south and west seems the most logical solution to me but many would disagree. Given the choice between north or south, personally it would be north for me.

That's kind of what I was getting at. The clubs aren't in agreement of the best way forward, meanwhile we have page after page of "proposals" about what should happen. Lockdown has a lot to answer for, imho.

[FairWeatherFan]

22 minutes ago, Jacksgranda said:

 meanwhile we have page after page of "proposals" about what should happen. Lockdown has a lot to answer for, imho.

That would have been happening regardless. Ever since early 2018 there has been an ever evolving variety of ideas depending on what the lay of the land was at the time.

[Jacksgranda]

4 minutes ago, FairWeatherFan said:

That would have been happening regardless. Ever since early 2018 there has been an ever evolving variety of ideas depending on what the lay of the land was at the time.

Aye, but not a lot of them based on actual input from the clubs concerned, as far as I can see.

More just a personal wish list from individual posters.

[Whitburn Vale]

47 minutes ago, Ginaro said:

Presumably they also know about Livingston United's EOS application? Might only take one more club to go public saying they're leaving to help bring about the inevitable...

Yeah they know of Livi United"s interest in the EoS.

What is intriguing is the level of work that has been undertaken at Central Park,it's looking good,only floodlights missing for now.

[FairWeatherFan]

2 minutes ago, Jacksgranda said:

Aye, but not a lot of them based on actual input from the clubs concerned, as far as I can see.

More just a personal wish list from individual posters.

That's exactly all it is.

• There's no PWG anymore.
• There's no talks going on with the SJFA/East Region on a public level.
• Some of the mentions from those setting up the WoSFL was that it was the final piece of the puzzle for the Lowland side of the pyramid.
• The NCL and North Juniors are meant to be getting something together, but that's been going on since 2018. On a podcast the interim North Region president had said they'd met with the Highland League 3-4 times up to that point. Yet there's still nothing official.

Everything is therefore wishful thinking and personal preferences. If football goes back to normal on schedule, then Feb-Mar will see news about clubs applying for leagues. That will at least see some educated guesswork on what 2021-22 would look like.

[mcruic]

54 minutes ago, Jimi Shandrix said:

This is the main problem. There is no common consensus between clubs. Even within clubs there are a lot of differing opinions so don't see much happening anytime soon. A senior midlands league to sit alongside north, south and west seems the most logical solution to me but many would disagree. Given the choice between north or south, personally it would be north for me.

Do you mean at Tier 6?  There's East, South and West already at Tier 6 - currently no North at Tier 6. 

So would you advocate 5 leagues at Tier 6 (North, Midlands, South, East and West)?

Are you also saying, based in or around Dundee, that you'd prefer to travel slightly further to your away games?  What would be your main reason for going north rather than south?

Edited July 24, 2020 by mcruic

[Jimi Shandrix]

5 minutes ago, mcruic said:

Do you mean at Tier 6?  There's East, South and West already at Tier 6 - currently no North at Tier 6. 

So would you advocate 5 leagues at Tier 6 (North, Midlands, South, East and West)?

Are you also saying, based in or around Dundee, that you'd prefer to travel further to your away games?

I was speaking hypothetically. Midlands league would be Montrose to Inverkeithing. Combined South/East league would be Edinburgh to the borders. That's probably similar distance wise. So 4 leagues at tier 6. On your last point the Aberdeen bypass has improved travel northwards immeasurably. It maybe slightly longer in miles but  in the main, leaving aside outliers which you will get in any league, the road north is less prone to snarl ups than the road south. 

[mcruic]

Montrose Roselea benefitted from joining the North Juniors due to their geography, and the fact they played in a regionwide league (ERSJA Premier, which had  some 100-mile trips to the Lothians.  Their average travel distance in the North Superleague is about 56 miles - which is actually more than it would be if they went back to the ERSJFA now with its Tayside/Lothian structure.  Their longest trip would be 45 miles to Scone.  It's actually not that much less travelling than they had in the ERSJFA Premier on average (56 miles compared to 71), despite their statement at the time describing it as if they were travelling hundreds of miles further than they would in the North.

 

[mcruic]

5 minutes ago, Jimi Shandrix said:

I was speaking hypothetically. Midlands league would be Montrose to Inverkeithing. Combined South/East league would be Edinburgh to the borders. That's probably similar distance wise. So 4 leagues at tier 6. On your last point the Aberdeen bypass has improved travel northwards immeasurably. It maybe slightly longer in miles but  in the main, leaving aside outliers which you will get in any league, the road north is less prone to snarl ups than the road south. 

Midlands league might be a good idea as a kind of "borderland" league - I think if we're going to keep the HL/LL boundary, then the ML teams should probably be given the choice of which one they go to should they make Tier 5 (Montrose going North, Inverkeithing south).  All depends whether Fife teams can stomach travelling to Angus or vice versa.

Edited July 24, 2020 by mcruic