Junior football, what is the future?

[Spyro]

49 minutes ago, Ginaro said:

Surely the it's not beyond the abilities of the SAFA to sort something...

It would take a very strong (and brave) leadership to swing that axe. No reason why it can’t be done, there would just be the unenviable task of trying to keep everyone happy and onboard. Like I said, if you thought the juniors were a difficult nut to crack... 

[LongTimeLurker]

On 20/05/2020 at 21:02, cmontheloknow said:

I wasn't referring to Ronney's one. I was referring to the one mentioned in the paper. Are they one and the same? I was told (and from an impeccable source) that Lok were very much sharing Henry Dumigan's views as shared to the paper. The points on that declaration are pretty similar to those we highlight below.

Our statement of 27/3 went on to say:

"We will apply to join the newly proposed WoSL, retain SJFA membership and compete in the Scottish Junior Cup next season."

https://pollokfc.com/2020/03/28/west-of-scotland-league-update/

No doubt these declarations were cynically designed with the LL saying "No Way Jose!" in mind, so there would be a split and blazers could be kept. Whoever it was in the LL that called their bluff by pointing out the reality that the SJFA could easily still continue inside the pyramid as a cup organising body for the SJC played an absolute blinder. Too bad there couldn't have been something similarly visionary and genuinely pro-pyramid in the east instead of the turgid divisive bilge that emanates from certain small towns in West Lothian.

[cmontheloknow]

5 hours ago, LongTimeLurker said:

No doubt these declarations were cynically designed with the LL saying "No Way Jose!" in mind, so there would be a split and blazers could be kept. Whoever it was in the LL that called their bluff by pointing out the reality that the SJFA could easily still continue inside the pyramid as a cup organising body for the SJC played an absolute blinder. Too bad there couldn't have been something similarly visionary and genuinely pro-pyramid in the east instead of the turgid divisive bilge that emanates from certain small towns in West Lothian.

They're so far gone they'd probably resign from SJFA in protest should anything like that be offered

[FairWeatherFan]

Beith Juniors staying in the SJFA for another year, but keeping an eye on things beyond that.

[glensmad]

They'd need to still be members of the SJFA to play in the semi finals of this season's Scottish Junior Cup if it is played during next season. Interesting to see that they are waiting to see how it works in the calendar going forward, including next season.

 

 

[LongTimeLurker]

Beith seem to be forgetting their pre-1938 history as a senior club that included three seasons in the SFL in the mid-1920s. No harm in keeping the Juniors part of their name though.

[cmontheloknow]

A rare thing - a club not claiming a history not their own! Some of the clubs doing so are a bit like Trigger's Broom!

[Black Pennel]

I think that it makes perfect sense for them to retain their membership just so that they can continue to compete in it if the cup (for this season) is to be completed when fitba resumes.

They can then decide in the future whether it is still feasible to even be in the competition at all once we see the full extent of the fixture mayhem when the 20 team league starts.

I can't see anything at all wrong with their stance.

As to the name being retained, well...it makes not a jot of difference really.

[Andy groundhopper]

Correct its only a name, bit like the Miner's Welfare or works teams etc - no surprises, most clubs tag onto a history when they reform ,even though it's a different club  in reality. Still can't get my head around the sjfa/junior cup stuff - when the juniors become seniors. Just have to let go sometimes, I know it's painful

[ShrimpLok]

Inverurie Loco Works has been closed for 51 years, getting on for 40% of the history of the 117 year old eponymous football club. 

So no reason why clubs can't keep Junior in their name for a good while yet, even if the Junior organisation disappears entirely.

[LongTimeLurker]

50 minutes ago, cmontheloknow said:

A rare thing - a club not claiming a history not their own! Some of the clubs doing so are a bit like Trigger's Broom!

Don't see any problem with the likes of Arthurlie and Royal Albert acknowleging the obvious. They switched from being senior to junior at one or more point in their history like Beith did. Same ground and colours involved, so if it quacks like a duck and waddles like a duck, it's still a duck.

[glensmad]

I think that it makes perfect sense for them to retain their membership just so that they can continue to compete in it if the cup (for this season) is to be completed when fitba resumes.
They can then decide in the future whether it is still feasible to even be in the competition at all once we see the full extent of the fixture mayhem when the 20 team league starts.
I can't see anything at all wrong with their stance.
As to the name being retained, well...it makes not a jot of difference really.

Correct, it is a sensible stance from Beith. It leaves them available to play out this season's Scottish Junior Cup without committing them to take part in next year's competition.

[cmontheloknow]

43 minutes ago, LongTimeLurker said:

Don't see any problem with the likes of Arthurlie and Royal Albert acknowleging the obvious. They switched from being senior to junior at one or more point in their history like Beith did. Same ground and colours involved, so if it quacks like a duck and waddles like a duck, it's still a duck.

Arthurlie is not the same club.

[FairWeatherFan]

Just because it has been brought up in another thread. A little reminder to how the Lowland League was formed, and how the SJFA shot themselves in the foot before it had even started. Yet people still like to tout a conspiracy that it was the SFA and boys clubs that did the Juniors in.

Keep in mind this article is from days before the Lowland League even announce which clubs and how many would make up the 2013-14 season.

From today's Scottish sun (15th June 2013)

SJFA chiefs are set to press for a new national junior Superleague.

Hampden bosses reckon it would
be a better option for their clubs
than the new Lowland League — & even rival several of the bottom tiers
of the SFA’s pyramid system plans.

Fresh talk of a 12-team league made up of the top six sides from the West Premier and East Superleague comes after it was revealed this week that NO junior teams have applied to join the Lowland League.

Only six SJFA sides — Clydebank, Rob Roy, Girvan, Rossvale, St Roch’s & Blackburn — had declared an
interest but none followed that up.

It’s clear junior bosses reckon a super Superleague is the way to prevent big guns like Auchinleck, Linlithgow & Pollok being lured away by the chance to earn promotion into the new SPFL.

SJFA secretary Tom Johnston said: “This isn’t a totally new idea, it’s been mooted in the past, but it is something that is very much back on the agenda. We think it’s the right time to look at it.
We’ve floated the idea & have people in the West and the East looking into it further, to see how the mechanics of it would work.

“It’s simple to take the top six from the two Superleagues, it’s what happens to the teams left behind that might need a bit more work on.

“It will be on the agenda for a meeting we have later this month.

“This is the next obvious step for
the junior game. It’s ten years now
since we moved to the three region
set-up & started the Superleagues.

“That has gone well but there are
people in the game that feel we have
to look & see what the next level
is for our teams, what new opportunities we can put in front of them.

“And it would be an option that
clubs could look at rather than the
Lowland League, without the financial
implications that would have for
any of our teams thinking about it.

“We feel a national Superleague
would raise the profile for our game.

“I think it’d be right up there as a
stronger division than the Highland
League, the Lowland League &
maybe even the bottom couple of
divisions of the new senior set-up.”

A national league based on this
season’s tables would see Auchinleck,
Linlithgow, Petershill, Bonnyrigg,
Clydebank, Camelon, Glenafton, Bo’-
ness, Irvine Meadow, Kelty, Arthurlie
& Broxburn in the same division.

Johnston feels staying junior to compete in that sort of league would
be the better option for the SJFA big guns.

He added: “I think the Lowland League will be an inferior product — I don’t think it reaches the standards of our top clubs & I don’t see anything in it
for them.

“I don’t think there is any merit in our top teams going to play there because of the lack of fanbase & quality it will
have, not to mention the costs involved in meeting club licensing
requirements which are substantial.

“I think it’s been rushed through & the interest from junior clubs init was minimal. I don’t have a problem with them looking at it as an option but just feel what we have at the moment is a good product that is better for them.

“I’ll bring our clubs up to date
with where we are at our AGM this
weekend but I don’t expect a major
clamour from them about it.”

 

[Ginaro]

Those paragraphs look like someone has written a Limerick.

There once was a secretary named Tom...

[Hillonearth]

40 minutes ago, Ginaro said:

Those paragraphs look like someone has written a Limerick.

There once was a secretary named Tom...

Who was sitting on a time bomb

The East Region left him

Then it was the West one

Till most of the juniors were gone

[AlanCamelonfan]

1 hour ago, FairWeatherFan said:

Just because it has been brought up in another thread. A little reminder to how the Lowland League was formed, and how the SJFA shot themselves in the foot before it had even started. Yet people still like to tout a conspiracy that it was the SFA and boys clubs that did the Juniors in.

Keep in mind this article is from days before the Lowland League even announce which clubs and how many would make up the 2013-14 season.

From today's Scottish sun (15th June 2013)

SJFA chiefs are set to press for a new national junior Superleague.

Hampden bosses reckon it would
be a better option for their clubs
than the new Lowland League — & even rival several of the bottom tiers
of the SFA’s pyramid system plans.

Fresh talk of a 12-team league made up of the top six sides from the West Premier and East Superleague comes after it was revealed this week that NO junior teams have applied to join the Lowland League.

Only six SJFA sides — Clydebank, Rob Roy, Girvan, Rossvale, St Roch’s & Blackburn — had declared an
interest but none followed that up.

It’s clear junior bosses reckon a super Superleague is the way to prevent big guns like Auchinleck, Linlithgow & Pollok being lured away by the chance to earn promotion into the new SPFL.

SJFA secretary Tom Johnston said: “This isn’t a totally new idea, it’s been mooted in the past, but it is something that is very much back on the agenda. We think it’s the right time to look at it.
We’ve floated the idea & have people in the West and the East looking into it further, to see how the mechanics of it would work.

“It’s simple to take the top six from the two Superleagues, it’s what happens to the teams left behind that might need a bit more work on.

“It will be on the agenda for a meeting we have later this month.

“This is the next obvious step for
the junior game. It’s ten years now
since we moved to the three region
set-up & started the Superleagues.

“That has gone well but there are
people in the game that feel we have
to look & see what the next level
is for our teams, what new opportunities we can put in front of them.

“And it would be an option that
clubs could look at rather than the
Lowland League, without the financial
implications that would have for
any of our teams thinking about it.

“We feel a national Superleague
would raise the profile for our game.

“I think it’d be right up there as a
stronger division than the Highland
League, the Lowland League &
maybe even the bottom couple of
divisions of the new senior set-up.”

A national league based on this
season’s tables would see Auchinleck,
Linlithgow, Petershill, Bonnyrigg,
Clydebank, Camelon, Glenafton, Bo’-
ness, Irvine Meadow, Kelty, Arthurlie
& Broxburn in the same division.

Johnston feels staying junior to compete in that sort of league would
be the better option for the SJFA big guns.

He added: “I think the Lowland League will be an inferior product — I don’t think it reaches the standards of our top clubs & I don’t see anything in it
for them.

“I don’t think there is any merit in our top teams going to play there because of the lack of fanbase & quality it will
have, not to mention the costs involved in meeting club licensing
requirements which are substantial.

“I think it’s been rushed through & the interest from junior clubs init was minimal. I don’t have a problem with them looking at it as an option but just feel what we have at the moment is a good product that is better for them.

“I’ll bring our clubs up to date
with where we are at our AGM this
weekend but I don’t expect a major
clamour from them about it.”

 

Ironically the travel time for Camelon in that league would probably be actually pretty decent lol.

[LongTimeLurker]

2 minutes ago, AlanCamelonfan said:

Ironically the travel time for Camelon in that league would probably be actually pretty decent lol.

It was the top west clubs (mainly those in Ayrshire by all accounts) that knocked the superduperleague concept on the head over travel time concerns prompting Kelty to defect to the EoS. Now it's probably going to take at least another decade to get to something close to what should have been the starting point for the south tier 5 feeder.

[AlanCamelonfan]

Just now, LongTimeLurker said:

It was the top west clubs (mainly those in Ayrshire by all accounts) that knocked the superduperleague concept on the head over travel time concerns prompting Kelty to defect to the EoS. Now it's probably going to take at least another decade to get to something close to what should have been the starting point for the south tier 5 feeder.

WEll the grade was too blame for that no-one else.

[LongTimeLurker]

Plenty of people are to blame for how things unfolded in both grades and national associations involved.