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Junior football, what is the future?


Burnie_man

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30 minutes ago, Andy groundhopper said:

Maybe those new leagues would be an idea, with ground criteria set for say 2-3 years,given those teams have ambition of course. Guess grounds from east/West region to Lowland to spfl all need work as they go along. Just trying to find a way of keeping the junior name going somehow. Suppose that's where ground sharing solves issues up to a point - is there a time limit on ground sharing in Scotland ?

Why? Your just changing the name from Amateur to Junior. It means nothing, will you bring in youths and call them amateurs?

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Chris strain jr continues to be the mouthpiece for kilwinning and boyd in the newspaper. 

Absolute ned who most clubs wouldn't touch as a manager. 

He and his father have been a strain and stain on junior football for more than a decade now.

Would suit him a role at this shambolic west of scotland league he'd fit in well with that cabal. 

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50 minutes ago, gogsy said:

So despite being on p&b for nearly eight years killiepiyo is claiming he doesn't know burniemans team.:unsure: :lol:

Not sure I've had any interactions with him prior to anti establishment establishment stuff. Educated guess would be the shipyard but that wouldn't explain his postings on the junior and west forums or maybe it would as no being offensive but doesnt look like much happening on their thread or medias in comparison to here

Edited by Killiepiyo
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7 hours ago, cmontheloknow said:

Can't see some clubs leaving as they signed The Declaration. That was a pretty public "We're behind you TAJ" position to adopt.

Certainly Lok did this and communicated it to members, and while I disagree with that stance, that was the stance taken.

You are mistaken Jamie.

Pollok specifically decided we would NOT sign Gordon Ronney's loyalty-to-the-WRSJFA declaration. On the contrary our representatives at the Hampden GM were instrumental in having it radically altered to something that WAS signable!

6 hours ago, cmontheloknow said:

https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/ayrshire/auchinleck-talbot-sign-declaration-backing-21675703

Pollok told their members we'd be joining WOSL but retaining Junior membership.

They did indeed and that was a very different stance from "We're behind you TAJ" or any such statement!

Edited by archieb
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2 hours ago, Sergeant Wilson said:

Why? Your just changing the name from Amateur to Junior. It means nothing, will you bring in youths and call them amateurs?

There must be some appeal to it if Rothie Rovers are looking to apply to the North Region. Then last year Linlithgow Thistle (as Bo'ness United Juniors) and Linlithgow Rose CFC joined the East Region.

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4 minutes ago, FairWeatherFan said:

There must be some appeal to it if Rothie Rovers are looking to apply to the North Region. Then last year Linlithgow Thistle (as Bo'ness United Juniors) and Linlithgow Rose CFC joined the East Region.

That's what I said, they can apply, but it's more bother than it's worth trying to organise a pyramid any further down than we have.

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2 hours ago, archieb said:

You are mistaken Jamie.

Pollok specifically decided we would NOT sign Gordon Ronney's loyalty-to-the-WRSJFA declaration. On the contrary our representatives at the Hampden GM were instrumental in having it radically altered to something that WAS signable!

 

I wasn't referring to Ronney's one. I was referring to the one mentioned in the paper. Are they one and the same? I was told (and from an impeccable source) that Lok were very much sharing Henry Dumigan's views as shared to the paper. The points on that declaration are pretty similar to those we highlight below.

Our statement of 27/3 went on to say:

"We will apply to join the newly proposed WoSL, retain SJFA membership and compete in the Scottish Junior Cup next season."

https://pollokfc.com/2020/03/28/west-of-scotland-league-update/

Edited by cmontheloknow
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2 hours ago, traffordab said:

Chris strain jr continues to be the mouthpiece for kilwinning and boyd in the newspaper. 

Absolute ned who most clubs wouldn't touch as a manager. 

He and his father have been a strain and stain on junior football for more than a decade now.

Would suit him a role at this shambolic west of scotland league he'd fit in well with that cabal. 

See if your lonely mate, and want attention or company just reach out, I mean that. You seem to want to grab attention by being overly aggressive and disagreeable, it’s not the way to go. 

its not too difficult to be reasonable, give it a go you might like it.

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3 hours ago, Andy groundhopper said:

Maybe those new leagues would be an idea, with ground criteria set for say 2-3 years,given those teams have ambition of course. Guess grounds from east/West region to Lowland to spfl all need work as they go along. Just trying to find a way of keeping the junior name going somehow. Suppose that's where ground sharing solves issues up to a point - is there a time limit on ground sharing in Scotland ?

I reckon, give it two or three years or so for things to land into place, the ammies will make moves to slot in below the regional leagues. There's already a weird overlap with some of the amateur leagues who could combine to a degree and see an intermediate style league. Below the West Region, for instance, an Ayrshire, Clydeside and Lanarkshire set up could be implemented with the best amateur teams joining. Ground criteria could be relaxed compared to what the WoSFL expects but be stricter than what the amateur leagues demand. A place for the best amateur teams to play with the chance of progression and a place for teams struggling in the west to drop down to and still have the chance to return.

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On 20/05/2020 at 15:27, Killiepiyo said:

The various committees and supporters clubs all feed back into club. Weekly Talbot update is emailed to all members and media outlets. Would imagine if Talbot were considering leaving their junior credentials behind then we might see wider consultation in the public domain. 

Was any attempt made to explain what joining the West of Scotland League would mean?

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On 20/05/2020 at 16:46, Andy groundhopper said:

Maybe those new leagues would be an idea, with ground criteria set for say 2-3 years,given those teams have ambition of course. Guess grounds from east/West region to Lowland to spfl all need work as they go along. Just trying to find a way of keeping the junior name going somehow. Suppose that's where ground sharing solves issues up to a point - is there a time limit on ground sharing in Scotland ?

No time limit on ground shares currently,. That said I see no reason to keep the junior name going.   It can live on in club names and history books but when the most prominent league organisation is Scotland for over a century(SFL)  can disappear with barely a whimper and everyone moving on within 10 minutes I’m not sure why the junior brand needs special protective status.

On 20/05/2020 at 16:59, cmontheloknow said:

If you play on a public park or use a 3G facility (but perhaps use 3 or 4 grounds depending) there ain't much to upgrade. A number of these clubs are a coaching team and players with not a great deal beyond it. No club buildings, no history. Someone important leaves, bye bye club. There are exceptions but I'd say they were just that - exceptions.

From my understanding that’s not truly a reflection of amateur football. I think there is a difference between city and village clubs in the regard. Village clubs tend to have one local pitch where city clubs are less confident in where they play their matches.  Even towns where clubs use shared facilities they  have nominated pitches so they play nearly all home games on the same pitch.

city and particularly Glasgow amateurs and way more chaotic than elsewhere.  Take the leagues for example. Most areas have 1 local league structure with promotion and relegation happening in an organised system 

 but go to Glasgow and it’s a mess of several leagues covering the same area with no formal arrangement between any of them.

There is a juxtaposition that where it’s easiest to recruit players it’s hardest to develop grounds and vice versa.

A proper pyramid  league structure would allow the amateurs to get promoted into the bottom of the senior game but based on certain conditions like permeant home pitch. That does mean if clubs get a run of luck with managers/players and some funding they could rise a few leagues and then drop down when that disappears, similarly clubs at the bottom of the semi-pro game might find themselves struggling and playing in a less structured system until they put the pieces in place to allow them to get back to formal glories. That’s football.

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6 minutes ago, parsforlife said:

No time limit on ground shares currently,. That said I see no reason to keep the junior name going.   It can live on in club names and history books but when the most prominent league organisation is Scotland for over a century(SFL)  can disappear with barely a whimper and everyone moving on within 10 minutes I’m not sure why the junior brand needs special protective status.

From my understanding that’s not truly a reflection of amateur football. I think there is a difference between city and village clubs in the regard. Village clubs tend to have one local pitch where city clubs are less confident in where they play their matches.  Even towns where clubs use shared facilities they  have nominated pitches so they play nearly all home games on the same pitch.

city and particularly Glasgow amateurs and way more chaotic than elsewhere.  Take the leagues for example. Most areas have 1 local league structure with promotion and relegation happening in an organised system 

 but go to Glasgow and it’s a mess of several leagues covering the same area with no formal arrangement between any of them.

There is a juxtaposition that where it’s easiest to recruit players it’s hardest to develop grounds and vice versa.

A proper pyramid  league structure would allow the amateurs to get promoted into the bottom of the senior game but based on certain conditions like permeant home pitch. That does mean if clubs get a run of luck with managers/players and some funding they could rise a few leagues and then drop down when that disappears, similarly clubs at the bottom of the semi-pro game might find themselves struggling and playing in a less structured system until they put the pieces in place to allow them to get back to formal glories. That’s football.

I do take your point that grounds are less of an issue with smaller clubs and towns, but Oban Saints have 3, Lochgilphead Red Star 2 in this area. In Glasgow as you say, a bit more chaotic. The Central Scottish clubs list up to 4 options. I tried to keep up one year and some clubs were on to a 5th. Others never once used the designated #1 ground. Random venues used in midweek.  The three strongest leagues in the West are Central Scottish, Caledonian and SAFL - but the Ayrshire League also has some top sides that compete for top honours. A bit of consolidation would be good but there seems to be a love of the blazer.

Edited by cmontheloknow
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On 19/05/2020 at 23:22, Inanimate Carbon Rod said:


Ask your club to ask the supporters if you should go back and keep the wrsjfa alive, im sure a load of other clubs could join you and let the rest of us get on with it.

 

Has the date for the West of Scotland (senior) League's AGM, been agreed, and if so, does anyone know the date, as I don't. The sooner the better IMO, in order that football in the West can settle down and move forward, for the benefit of clubs, players and fans.

Similarly with the 'future of the juniors' seemingly in limbo/going nowhere, announcing AGM dates for both the ERJFA, and for the NRJFA,, should also be beneficial for all concerned, in order to move forward. Surely, the key focus needs to be about 2020/21 and how Scottish football grapples with/overcomes the problems caused by the pandemic.

 

Edited by Robert James
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Has the date for the West of Scotland (senior) League's AGM, been agreed, and if so, does anyone know the date, as I don't. The sooner the better IMO, in order that football in the West can settle down and move forward, for the benefit of clubs, players and fans.
Similarly with the 'future of the juniors' seemingly in limbo/going nowhere, announcing AGM dates for both the ERJFA, and for the NRJFA,, should also be beneficial for all concerned, in order to move forward. Surely, the key focus needs to be about 2020/21 and how Scottish football grapples with/overcomes the problems caused by the pandemic.
 
I don't expect there to be a WoSFL AGM till next summer.
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If you think the SPFL and sjfa were a tough nut to crack to find some sort of reconciliation, you are having a laugh if you think the competing amateur leagues will find an agreement and be able to join onto the pyramid system. As has already been said....

3 hours ago, cmontheloknow said:

A bit of consolidation would be good but there seems to be a love of the blazer.

 

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18 minutes ago, Spyro said:

competing amateur leagues

There's the problem - amateur leagues should just cater for a specific region below the senior pyramid. The rest of the country manages it with Ayrshire, Borders, Fife etc. but greater Glasgow, Lanarkshire, Inverclyde and a bit of Stirling have four leagues covering the same area.

Either come together and create a Glasgow "Superleague" with a regional split below that, or just split into two or three regions. If you want to play at a higher level with more travel then join the seniors. Surely the it's not beyond the abilities of the SAFA to sort something...

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