Junior football, what is the future?

[Spyro]

6 minutes ago, Casey Jones said:

Two prominent West Lothian clubs who decided to stick to Junior football next season have already advertised for new Managers. Coincidence or were they going to leave in any case?

Can’t find players that want to play in that league maybe?

It quite obvious the vast majority of PLAYERS want to play in the main system, it’s only the committees and some fans who still think they are a big pull. If players had the choice, they’d play at any level of the EoS or WoS before playing in that league

[Robert James]

1 hour ago, stanley said:

It would be a huge struggle to get the League Two clubs to back it anyway.  Look at how well Cove Rangers have done this season (Edinburgh City in second too).  The chances are that Brora and Kelty would be promoted and not go straight back down next season.  Increase the league to 14 teams and then relegated 2 or 3 next season (to go back down to 42 teams) and there's a decent chance those 2 or 3 clubs would be established SPFL clubs.  Scottish football is generally about self-protectionism.  Clubs are going to do what they can to keep it at relegation playoffs rather than automatic relegation at the bottom of League Two and they certainly aren't going to be keen on promoting two non-league clubs at once and threatening their SPFL status further.

Probably true (unfortunately).

I was looking forward to seeing Brora in League Two next season, and Kelty certainly deserve to go up, having been the club which was the catalyst for the enhanced pyramid we will have, if 2020/21 goes ahead as planned. Perhaps the 2 should play an HFL  v  SLL challenge match, during pre season (at Aberdeen ?), just to compare their relative strengths ?

Despite my disappointment, I can't see any litigation being successful, as there is no "legal" obligation for the SPFL to restructure at this junction, particularly as the club 42 play-offs  cannot be played, as things stand.  The SPFL hasn't approved any promotion play-offs for the Championship, League One, or League Two, so no legal  precedent has been set which Brora & Kelty could otherwise cite to their advantage.  

However, SPFL & pyramid restructuring is needed, and I would recommend that, following an in-depth review (carried out by the SFA, SPFL, and both the Highland & Lowland League representatives jointly), should be undertaken with a view to implementation in 2021/22. Buying time for this restructuring would  hopefully allow the virus to be controlled, enable some leading WoSL clubs to get licensed,  and the 'conferences' in both East & West to have been replaced by hierarchial divisions.  And ideally, providing a much better long term solution.

[Andy groundhopper]

Obviously the spfl clubs have built a bomb proof house allowing nobody inside, and the fear of disappearing into the  LL or HL is as clear as day,running scared. Am not fully up to date with everything, how has the reaction of Berwick fans/club been this season ?  Is it just the money that keeps spfl clubs in their cocoon ?

[welshbairn]

3 hours ago, Robert James said:

Probably true (unfortunately).

I was looking forward to seeing Brora in League Two next season, and Kelty certainly deserve to go up, having been the club which was the catalyst for the enhanced pyramid we will have, if 2020/21 goes ahead as planned. Perhaps the 2 should play an HFL  v  SLL challenge match, during pre season (at Aberdeen ?), just to compare their relative strengths ?

Despite my disappointment, I can't see any litigation being successful, as there is no "legal" obligation for the SPFL to restructure at this junction, particularly as the club 42 play-offs  cannot be played, as things stand.  The SPFL hasn't approved any promotion play-offs for the Championship, League One, or League Two, so no legal  precedent has been set which Brora & Kelty could otherwise cite to their advantage.  

However, SPFL & pyramid restructuring is needed, and I would recommend that, following an in-depth review (carried out by the SFA, SPFL, and both the Highland & Lowland League representatives jointly), should be undertaken with a view to implementation in 2021/22. Buying time for this restructuring would  hopefully allow the virus to be controlled, enable some leading WoSL clubs to get licensed,  and the 'conferences' in both East & West to have been replaced by hierarchial divisions.  And ideally, providing a much better long term solution.

Interesting thing to come out on Sportsound today from the LL and Brora chairmen was that the SFA run the play off, not the SPFL, and they haven't made a statement. Wonder what happens if the Brora Kelty playoffs go ahead preseason, and the SPFL fail to provide team 42 for the decider?

[Cameron Wilson]

15 hours ago, craigkillie said:

 

 

I can't see what realistic case the HL or LL (or the individual clubs) could make here. Yes these clubs have been denied a play-off, but it is very obvious that it would not have been practical to hold these play-offs as a result government advice - in fact it would quite possibly be illegal to do so. The fact that both the Highland and Lowland Leagues chose to terminate their own seasons shows that both of those leagues acknowledged that fact too. The SPFL certainly have no moral (or legal) obligation to expand their membership as a result.

With all due respect, if they're not worried about legal challenges from Rangers or Hearts as a result of the decision to call the season early, then they're not going to be worried about the Lowland League or Highland League.

This is not a case of the SPFL choosing to pull up the drawbridge (even if some of the League 2 clubs might want to), it's a case of the SPFL having to take the only practical option to handle the early termination of a league season which is caused by circumstances completely outwith their control. The play-off remains in place for future seasons - that has never really been in doubt despite people wanting to muddy the waters. Hopefully longer term we can see this becoming an automatic place once the League 2 clubs realise, as the SPL clubs did in 2013, that it's useful to have more chance to get back up if you do go down.

 

Very good points.

The promotion playoff however is four games. Surely a way could be found to play these once football returns? Or go for the 14-12-12 setup to keep consistency with their plans for all levels.

Shutting out Kelty and Brora isn't necessary.

[Ginaro]

1 hour ago, welshbairn said:

Interesting thing to come out on Sportsound today from the LL and Brora chairmen was that the SFA run the play off, not the SPFL, and they haven't made a statement. Wonder what happens if the Brora Kelty playoffs go ahead preseason, and the SPFL fail to provide team 42 for the decider?

https://spfl.co.uk/admin/filemanager/files/shares/SPFL Rules and Regulations 20-Jan-20 (MASTER COPY) CLEAN.pdf

Quote

C12 Subject to these Rules and except in relation to Season 2013/2014, the Clubs entitled to participate in League Two in any Season shall be:

C12.4 one of the Club and the Candidate Club successful in securing a position and an entitlement to participate in League Two in the Pyramid Play-Off Competition at the end of the immediately preceding Season.

From that it would seem to me that Brechin aren't currently entitled to play in League Two next season unless they take part in and win the play-off against the candidate club?

[Casey Jones]

1 hour ago, welshbairn said:

Interesting thing to come out on Sportsound today from the LL and Brora chairmen was that the SFA run the play off, not the SPFL, and they haven't made a statement. Wonder what happens if the Brora Kelty playoffs go ahead preseason, and the SPFL fail to provide team 42 for the decider?

So do you still think this has got a bit to run?

 

[santheman]

As is the case with ANY rule it is there to be changed/challenged/broken/ignored so you can be sure the SPFL will try and pull up the drawbridge for at least next season.

Money is a prisoner due to Covid 19 so every club will try to make sure they're at the front of the queue with the begging bowl until this is all over and if that means denying entry to the non league clubs then that is what they will try to do.

It's dog eat dog out there at the moment

[Andy groundhopper]

Push the SFA into a corner and you may get a response sometime. Am sure there's still something surprising ahead, the Brechin  problem appears to be the no promotions or relegations issue. Got a feeling that the Kelty/ Brora story isn't finished yet. Across the football spectrum it sounds like every club at the bottom WILL make an amazing escape, or that's their belief.

[LongTimeLurker]

1 hour ago, santheman said:

As is the case with ANY rule it is there to be changed/challenged/broken/ignored so you can be sure the SPFL will try and pull up the drawbridge for at least next season....

The top clubs couldn't care less about the welfare and national league status of Cowdenbeath or Brechin. 14-14-14 to save Hearts from the drop was the opportunity for some mischief, but at least 6 premiership clubs didn't have any interest in tampering with the status quo even under those circumstances.

[santheman]

Bit strange seeing one of your posts without a Riddy beside it LTL

Looks like all your pals have fecked off to the WOSL forum

[LongTimeLurker]

2 hours ago, Ginaro said:

https://spfl.co.uk/admin/filemanager/files/shares/SPFL Rules and Regulations 20-Jan-20 (MASTER COPY) CLEAN.pdf

From that it would seem to me that Brechin aren't currently entitled to play in League Two next season unless they take part in and win the play-off against the candidate club?

Problem is the "at the end of the immediately preceding season" bit in C12.4. COVID19 has made that impossible and the season has now been ended outright.

[Robert James]

5 hours ago, welshbairn said:

Interesting thing to come out on Sportsound today from the LL and Brora chairmen was that the SFA run the play off, not the SPFL, and they haven't made a statement. Wonder what happens if the Brora Kelty playoffs go ahead preseason, and the SPFL fail to provide team 42 for the decider?

 

An intriguing suggestion.  Unlikely to happen (sadly) .

[traffordab]

6 hours ago, santheman said:

As is the case with ANY rule it is there to be changed/challenged/broken/ignored so you can be sure the SPFL will try and pull up the drawbridge for at least next season.

Money is a prisoner due to Covid 19 so every club will try to make sure they're at the front of the queue with the begging bowl until this is all over and if that means denying entry to the non league clubs then that is what they will try to do.

It's dog eat dog out there at the moment

Excellent post .

The big dog was before pandemic going to allow the little dog a sniff of action. Now nah no chance the big dog has its prize well and truly guarded and if the little dog dare to come near it , it will chew it up and spit it out and leave it to rot .

[Tutankhamen]

14 hours ago, traffordab said:

Excellent post .

The big dog was before pandemic going to allow the little dog a sniff of action. Now nah no chance the big dog has its prize well and truly guarded and if the little dog dare to come near it , it will chew it up and spit it out and leave it to rot .

The point i dont get was the two/three/four year effort on here by a particular  couple of posters. Can only guess they are paid officials. Why else would you put so much effort into was is and always has been a highly protectionist gig which pays lip service to terms like sporting integrity.

[traffordab]

7 minutes ago, Tutankhamen said:

The point i dont get was the two/three/four year effort on here by a particular  couple of posters. Can only guess they are paid officials. Why else would you put so much effort into was is and always has been a highly protectionist gig which pays lip service to terms like sporting integrity.

It has been a concentrated effort to discredit a grade of football that served communities well for decades. The irony is these people and this sham pyramid was always going to be exposed and ruthlessly tore apart and it has in an even quicker time than many skeptical of the whole thing could even predict. 

The very labels given to the junior officials could easily be labeled at senior officials even more so! 

The dream never really was a goer in reality only ever on a keyboard and web page. 

[welshbairn]

On 09/05/2020 at 08:17, Andy groundhopper said:

Difficult situation as the season never finished, would have been good to have say PPG across the board, SPL downwards and then possibly have a play off for Kelty,Brora etc prior to next season starting.

I've thought that would be a cracking start to a new season and get everyone fired up, hopefully a fair bit televised. The downside is that clubs involved would have a maybe impossible time trying to budget and recruit for the new season when they won't know where they'll be playing.

[Andy groundhopper]

1 minute ago, welshbairn said:

I've thought that would be a cracking start to a new season and get everyone fired up, hopefully a fair bit televised. The downside is that clubs involved would have a maybe impossible time trying to budget and recruit for the new season when they won't know where they'll be playing.

Suppose the downside will stay until there are possible dates for a return, wonder how long a club needs to rebuild ? Guess if the lower club won a play-off, then it would try to keep a majority of those players. 

[Tutankhamen]

50 minutes ago, traffordab said:

It has been a concentrated effort to discredit a grade of football that served communities well for decades. The irony is these people and this sham pyramid was always going to be exposed and ruthlessly tore apart and it has in an even quicker time than many skeptical of the whole thing could even predict. 

The very labels given to the junior officials could easily be labeled at senior officials even more so! 

The dream never really was a goer in reality only ever on a keyboard and web page. 

I was a supporter of a genuine pyramid even though i knew the history of the 100 plus years of protectionism in Scottish senior football. Having met nearly all the redneck leadership of the SJFA and WJFA i knew it was only a matter of time before they caved in. You only had to look at the WJFA fixture farce. From one redneck who spoke in grunts to another guy who put half a season online and folks thought he was Einstein. Maybe says more about the Juniors in general. Leaving that aside i wished the likes of Talbot good luck on the way up. Talbot have moved way beyond the Juniors. Now we find the goalposts moved to somewhere in the street outside. You'd need a QC to work out promotion and relegation. 

Probably look a bit better by 2030.

Although the average present day supporter at this level will be long gone by then.

Edited May 10, 2020 by Tutankhamen
Eff the SFA

[Pyramidic]

The Tayside clubs have plenty of time at the moment to reflect on where they want to be for the 2021/22 season. There appear to be a multitude of options:

1. Remain in the ERJFA.

2. Form the Tayside Junior League.

3. Form a new Senior League

- Tayside Senior League 

- Scottish Midland League 

- Mid-Scotland League

- Central Scotland League

4. Amalgamate with NRJFA.

5. Feed into the Highland League pyramid.

6. Feed into the Lowland League pyramid.

7. Join the EOSFL.

My position is changing on this one and I now think that we should form the Mid-Scotland League and feed into the Lowland League pyramid. This could be directly into the Lowland League or possibly into the EOSFL Premier.

EOSFL admin to be kingmaker again and help form the league.

Any thoughts?