Junior football, what is the future?

[mcruic]

1 minute ago, Cyclizine said:

Apparently, Breadalbane (from Aberfeldy) have previously applied to the ERJFA.

I'm from Perthshire originally, and Aberfeldy was considered quite a trek by some people, even within the county.

There was a history of several of the now amateur Perthshire teams being senior, and playing in the Scottish Cup.  I believe Breadalbane were one, and Vale of Atholl from Pitlochry played in the Scottish FA Cup as recently as the 1960s.

[Cyclizine]

1 minute ago, mcruic said:

I'm from Perthshire originally, and Aberfeldy was considered quite a trek by some people, even within the county.

There was a history of several of the now amateur Perthshire teams being senior, and playing in the Scottish Cup.  I believe Breadalbane were one, and Vale of Atholl from Pitlochry played in the Scottish FA Cup as recently as the 1960s.

I think they got turned down based on facilities. I've been to Home Street, randomly to see Elgin City play Kelty Hearts in a pre-season friendly, and it wouldn't take much, if anything, to get the ground up to scratch. I do wonder if travel was a consideration...

[Andy groundhopper]

Guess a strong pyramid would be Highland, Lowland, Western and South East lges with a definite say 4 feeder league's below. Will always be difficult, like with the Northern LGE in England being out on a limb, and clubs like Torquay  etc just miles from anywhere. Would be good to retain junior lges for clubs who don't possess the ambition, or are just unable to progress for various reasons.

[Marten]

6 minutes ago, Cyclizine said:

I think they got turned down based on facilities. I've been to Home Street, randomly to see Elgin City play Kelty Hearts in a pre-season friendly, and it wouldn't take much, if anything, to get the ground up to scratch. I do wonder if travel was a consideration...

I've been there as well, decent ground. The people I spoke to over there reckon the only reason they got turned down was clubs not fancying the travel up to Aberfeldy.

[Spyro]

Just now, Marten said:

I've been there as well, decent ground. The people I spoke to over there reckon the only reason they got turned down was clubs not fancying the travel up to Aberfeldy.

Aberfeldy is a tricky one... Where would you put them if they wanted to join the pyramid system?

They are technically NORTH of the ‘line’ but not going to fancy a Aberdeenshire or Tayside league, or NCL.

I would suggest the EoS based to being a Perthshire team and the precedent set by the 2 Perth teams and Luncarty already. Starting in a EoS North division possibly... but if promoted, I can imagine small teams from East Lothian and The Borders being concerned about the cost/time of travelling.

[Cyclizine]

22 minutes ago, Spyro said:

Aberfeldy is a tricky one... Where would you put them if they wanted to join the pyramid system?

They are technically NORTH of the ‘line’ but not going to fancy a Aberdeenshire or Tayside league, or NCL.

I would suggest the EoS based to being a Perthshire team and the precedent set by the 2 Perth teams and Luncarty already. Starting in a EoS North division possibly... but if promoted, I can imagine small teams from East Lothian and The Borders being concerned about the cost/time of travelling.

I would think a Tayside league would be feasible, they're about 30 miles from both Blairgowie and Coupar Angus, albeit, travel up and down the A9 might be easier than cross-country. They're going to be outliers in whatever division they play, realistically.

Although, from the perspective of Highland League clubs, they're not that much out of the way for the Shire teams compared to Fort William, Brora and Wick...

Edited May 3, 2020 by Cyclizine

[Marten]

5 hours ago, 8MileBU said:

Another bitter red neck for Armadale. 

https://thefitbanomad.wordpress.com/2020/05/02/exclusive-interview-with-armadale-thistle-secretary-scott-watson/

It's clear there is bitterness after the developments in recent years. However, he does raise some decent points. He said that Tayside is forgotten about and spoke about the self-preservation in the SPFL, both are good points. I also agree that the SFA should take control of the pyramid, in the same manner as the English FA co-ordinates the pyramid in England. Ground criteria going up gradually by level (again, as in England) makes sense as well, with the possibility of giving promoted teams time to work towards matching the requirements.

[Spyro]

23 minutes ago, Cyclizine said:

I would think a Tayside league would be feasible, they're about 30 miles from both Blairgowie and Coupar Angus, albeit, travel up and down the A9 might be easier than cross-country. They're going to be outliers in whatever division they play, realistically.

Although, from the perspective of Highland League clubs, they're not that much out of the way for the Shire teams compared to Fort William, Brora and Wick...

I can see where you are coming from with the Tayside league (if it ever materialises), just seems crazy that they will be driving past 3 EoS teams to play in Dundee every fortnight as it’ll be easier to travel through Perth and across to Dundee/Angus.

Going north, their nearest rivals would be Spey Valley... 87 miles and over an hour n a half away.

[Marten]

30 minutes ago, Cyclizine said:

I would think a Tayside league would be feasible, they're about 30 miles from both Blairgowie and Coupar Angus, albeit, travel up and down the A9 might be easier than cross-country. They're going to be outliers in whatever division they play, realistically.

Although, from the perspective of Highland League clubs, they're not that much out of the way for the Shire teams compared to Fort William, Brora and Wick...

Blairgowrie to Aberfeldy isn't a difficult drive at all, I've driven it before and it's quite straightforward. Dundee to Aberfeldy isn't too hard either.

[Burnieman]

17 minutes ago, gogsy said:

Some quotes from Armadale Thistle twitter in the last week.

"Stay put . The lowland league are out to shaft everybody . The lies and deception have been rife since the day kelty left the juniors .

7:38 AM - 29 Apr 2020 "

"It's time the SFA took action against the lowland leagues EXPANSION . This has been an all.out assault on junior football that has been sponsored by mr petrie and his cronies ."

7:22 AM - 29 Apr 2020

When will anything get done about this all out assault . Like the east this has become a haven for liars and charlatans . Our game is a national disgrace and no wonder .I say again the men paid huge salaries at hampden must act and sort out our football NOW . From top to bottom

Stay junior join the west lothian clubs . Petrie and his stoogiez are making a complete mockery of scottish football

2:01 AM - 29 Apr 2020

It could be worse . During the great east migration . Almost every member of the league management committee stood at meetings telling other the clubs the EOS was a jumped up amateur league , then too a man jumped ship at the last minute . Charlatans every one of them .

12:05 AM - 28 Apr 2020

 

Anybody that takes this guy seriously must be off their rocker.

 

Is that the ScottishJuniorFitba twitter account, or the Armadale Thistle account, hard to tell...........hey wait a minute................

[AlanCamelonfan]

37 minutes ago, gogsy said:

Some quotes from Armadale Thistle twitter in the last week.

"Stay put . The lowland league are out to shaft everybody . The lies and deception have been rife since the day kelty left the juniors .

7:38 AM - 29 Apr 2020 "

"It's time the SFA took action against the lowland leagues EXPANSION . This has been an all.out assault on junior football that has been sponsored by mr petrie and his cronies ."

7:22 AM - 29 Apr 2020

When will anything get done about this all out assault . Like the east this has become a haven for liars and charlatans . Our game is a national disgrace and no wonder .I say again the men paid huge salaries at hampden must act and sort out our football NOW . From top to bottom

Stay junior join the west lothian clubs . Petrie and his stoogiez are making a complete mockery of scottish football

2:01 AM - 29 Apr 2020

It could be worse . During the great east migration . Almost every member of the league management committee stood at meetings telling other the clubs the EOS was a jumped up amateur league , then too a man jumped ship at the last minute . Charlatans every one of them .

12:05 AM - 28 Apr 2020

 

Anybody that takes this guy seriously must be off their rocker.

 

 

Our secretary said that at the meeting they told ppl they were going and had been our committee plan.

If hes going on about salaries he only had to look at his own organisation with tam Johnston taking a decent salary for killing the grade

[The Informer]

5 hours ago, Tutankhamen said:

Are you?

You been reading the Charlie Nicholas book on comeback lines?

[FairWeatherFan]

Seen it said on FN that Banks O'dee are appealing against the null & void decision in the North. They've won all 16 games played. That's given them a 14 point lead over their nearest rivals with 10 games to go.

[cmontheloknow]

was the issue with Breadalbane not something about stray golf balls?

[AlanCamelonfan]

59 minutes ago, FairWeatherFan said:

Seen it said on FN that Banks O'dee are appealing against the null & void decision in the North. They've won all 16 games played. That's given them a 14 point lead over their nearest rivals with 10 games to go.

They get in Scottish anyway so makes very little difference 

[FairWeatherFan]

15 minutes ago, AlanCamelonfan said:

They get in Scottish anyway so makes very little difference 

Titles, titles, titles.

That's what they're all about. Otherwise they wouldn't be finding excuses not to step up to the Highland League.

[welshbairn]

1 hour ago, FairWeatherFan said:

Seen it said on FN that Banks O'dee are appealing against the null & void decision in the North. They've won all 16 games played. That's given them a 14 point lead over their nearest rivals with 10 games to go.

Quote

Banks o’ Dee ‘devastated’ over ‘non-sporting’ null-and-void end to Junior Superleague campaign
by Danny Law
 04/05/2020, 10:31 am

Banks o’ Dee president Brian Winton says his side are “devastated” after clubs in the North Region Junior Football Association voted to declare the 2019-20 season null and void.

The Spain Park side were 14 points clear at the top of the McBookie.com North Region Super League after a perfect record from 16 games.

But the 32 clubs in the North Region voted 19-13 in favour of declaring the season null and void rather than finishing the season by the standings in the leagues as of March 7, or on a points-per-game basis.

The decision is in contrast to the one taken in the West Region Premiership when Auchinleck Talbot were crowned champions on average points, despite sitting third.

Winton is disappointed his side did not receive the same recognition, despite being on the cusp of a fifth successive title.
He said: “I feel disappointed and disillusioned over the lack of governance, leadership and consistency. Null and void is a non-sporting outcome and a negative way to conclude a season which has been played in difficult circumstances due to the pandemic.

“The bit that is hard to take is the Scottish Championship, Leagues 1 and 2, the Highland League and the Lowland League have all crowned their league leaders as champions.

“In the West of Scotland Juniors, Auchinleck Talbot were named champions despite sitting third.

“We are the only club in Scotland, as far as I’m aware, with an average of three points per game as we have won all 16 games.

“I feel the null and void vote has penalised the potential league champions and teams in the relegation zone have been thrown a lifeline.

“I guess when you take a vote on something like this, too many teams don’t have a vested interest in the outcome. The management team and players are devastated.

“To put together a run of 16 wins from 16 games and be 14 points ahead is frustrating, especially when the Scottish Junior Football Association have allowed a team sitting third in the league to win the championship.

“Where is the governance, leadership and consistency?

“It is sad for junior football in this area to have a null and void decision. It is not sporting and the easy way out.”

 

https://www.eveningexpress.co.uk/fp/sport/football/scottish-football/dee-devastated-over-season-end/

[humphrey]

On 03/05/2020 at 11:14, LongTimeLurker said:

For Dev's benefit, Breadalbane from Aberfeldy wanted into the east region juniors at one point (got knocked back over concerns about being too close to a golf course) and there have been posts about them wanting to pursue licensing and the pyramid. The guy who was posting about it on here preferred the EoS/LL over the HL.

I.ve come back on to clarify Breadalbane,s position. Breadalbane founded in 1880 were a senior club, as were the Vale of Atholl up until 1960 when their membership of the SFA was terminated due to the grounds not being enclosed. This led to the collapse of the PFA and application was made to the Perthshire Junior F.A but their application was refused as it was deemed too far to travel from Perth and the clubs were forced into thePAFA. Ironically 7 years later the PJFA collapsed and the remaining teams joined the ERSJFA. However the junior candle has always burned in Breadalbane circles and 9/10 years ago after winning the North of Tay cup with Gavin Price as manager Breadalbane asked the SJFA for a ground inspection in relation to a possible membership application. John Reilly and the Fauldhouse president (can,t remember his name) duly arrived and it was pretty evident from the initial conversation that they were there to blow holes in any potential application, their problem was they couldn,t find any so they latched on to being next to the golf course and the travelling time to Fauldhouse as pointers as to why they wouldn,t support an application from Breadalbane. From there Breadalbane contacted the SFA for advice and they sent out their head ground invigilator (cammy watt) who quite simply shook his head at the junior stance, a full health and safety report has been drawn up to support any application and the club were advised to apply for legacy status (successful) and he advised that any future ground works should be done to entry level standard making any future objections null and void. Breadalbane,s facilities are not an issue, neither the SJFA nor EOSFL would find fault and I would say we are further down the licensing line than most, the club has a good youthful hard working committee, I think the next project they are taking on is a floodlight upgrade to 300 lux, they have ambitions and why should the system hold them back because of a misunderstanding of geography. 

                   

[Marten]

35 minutes ago, humphrey said:

I.ve come back on to clarify Breadalbane,s position. Breadalbane founded in 1880 were a senior club, as were the Vale of Atholl up until 1960 when their membership of the SFA was terminated due to the grounds not being enclosed. This led to the collapse of the PFA and application was made to the Perthshire Junior F.A but their application was refused as it was deemed too far to travel from Perth and the clubs were forced into thePAFA. Ironically 7 years later the PJFA collapsed and the remaining teams joined the ERSJFA. However the junior candle has always burned in Breadalbane circles and 9/10 years ago after winning the North of Tay cup with Gavin Price as manager Breadalbane asked the SJFA for a ground inspection in relation to a possible membership application. John Reilly and the Fauldhouse president (can,t remember his name) duly arrived and it was pretty evident from the initial conversation that they were there to blow holes in any potential application, their problem was they couldn,t find any so they latched on to being next to the golf course and the travelling time to Fauldhouse as pointers as to why they wouldn,t support an application from Breadalbane. From there Breadalbane contacted the SFA for advice and they sent out their head ground invigilator (cammy watt) who quite simply shook his head at the junior stance, a full health and safety report has been drawn up to support any application and the club were advised to apply for legacy status (successful) and he advised that any future ground works should be done to entry level standard making any future objections null and void. Breadalbane,s facilities are not an issue, neither the SJFA nor EOSFL would find fault and I would say we are further down the licensing line than most, the club has a good youthful hard working committee, I think the next project they are taking on is a floodlight upgrade to 300 lux, they have ambitions and why should the system hold them back because of a misunderstanding of geography. 

                   

Thanks for your post, I enjoyed my visit and the facilities were definitely good when I went. I hope you will be able to join a semi-pro league in the near future. All the best.

[Dev]

21 hours ago, humphrey said:

I.ve come back on to clarify Breadalbane,s position. Breadalbane founded in 1880 were a senior club, as were the Vale of Atholl up until 1960 when their membership of the SFA was terminated due to the grounds not being enclosed. This led to the collapse of the PFA and application was made to the Perthshire Junior F.A but their application was refused as it was deemed too far to travel from Perth and the clubs were forced into thePAFA. Ironically 7 years later the PJFA collapsed and the remaining teams joined the ERSJFA. However the junior candle has always burned in Breadalbane circles and 9/10 years ago after winning the North of Tay cup with Gavin Price as manager Breadalbane asked the SJFA for a ground inspection in relation to a possible membership application. John Reilly and the Fauldhouse president (can,t remember his name) duly arrived and it was pretty evident from the initial conversation that they were there to blow holes in any potential application, their problem was they couldn,t find any so they latched on to being next to the golf course and the travelling time to Fauldhouse as pointers as to why they wouldn,t support an application from Breadalbane. From there Breadalbane contacted the SFA for advice and they sent out their head ground invigilator (cammy watt) who quite simply shook his head at the junior stance, a full health and safety report has been drawn up to support any application and the club were advised to apply for legacy status (successful) and he advised that any future ground works should be done to entry level standard making any future objections null and void. Breadalbane,s facilities are not an issue, neither the SJFA nor EOSFL would find fault and I would say we are further down the licensing line than most, the club has a good youthful hard working committee, I think the next project they are taking on is a floodlight upgrade to 300 lux, they have ambitions and why should the system hold them back because of a misunderstanding of geography. 

                   

Thanks. Good luck for the future.