Junior football, what is the future?

[glensmad]

No their Not registered as members.thay are affiliated members through the sjfa.its the association which is the member.just like the caledonian league which is the member.not the individual clubs unless they are licensed which makes them  members. Ie.banks o'dee.girvin.glasgow uni are all members.

This is my understanding too. The SJFA has only one vote at the SFA AGM, the same as the likes of Girvan etc. That's why, despite their bluster, the WRSJFA knew they would never win a vote at the SFA AGM with their original plan to form the WoSFL themselves.

[Tutankhamen]

On 21 April 2020 at 21:22, Blackie Gold said:

The main moaners seem to come from the Clydebank fraternity, do they have a hidden agenda against us? Also results were getting earned on the pitch and you can stick a 6-1 win over Kilwinning to highlight it.

Hidden agenda?

Tell us more.

[cmontheloknow]

6 hours ago, Lowland team said:

No their Not registered as members.thay are affiliated members through the sjfa.its the association which is the member.just like the caledonian league which is the member.not the individual clubs unless they are licensed which makes them  members. Ie.banks o'dee.girvin.glasgow uni are all members.

You are wrong. Sorry. You are mixing up Full Membership (Club Licence) with Registered Membership. 

Rule 11 of the SJFA constitution.

https://www.scottishjuniorfa.com/media/2422/sjfa-constitution-rules-2019-20.pdf

Quote

11. Membership of the Scottish Junior Football Association confers Registered Membership of the Scottish Football Associates

Edited April 24, 2020 by cmontheloknow

[lowenan]

The Scottish Amateur Sunday Trophy

Presented by the SAFA to replace the Famous Grouse Scotch Whisky Amateur Football Trophy in 2005 at a cost of £1,675. Established in 2005 and competed for annually by teams in the Associations/Leagues affiliated to the SAFA who play Sunday football.

Season	Winners
2004–05	Cavendish A.F.C.
2005–06	Rowantree A.F.C.
2006–07	Finnart A.F.C.
2007–08	Finnart A.F.C.
2008–09	Gantry A.F.C.
2009–10	Finnart A.F.C.
2010–11	Tower A.F.C.
2011–12	Finnart A.F.C.
2012–13	Rutherglen Vogue A.F.C.
2013–14	Harvester A.F.C.
2014–15	Cranhill United A.F.C.
2015–16	Dundee Argyle A.F.C.
2016–17	Harvester A.F.C.
2017–18	Drumchapel United A.F.C.

2018–19

Castlemilk Dynamo  A.F.C.

https://twitter.com/DrumchapelU/status/995608952263073793https://twitter.com/DrumchapelU/status/995608952263073793

Edited April 24, 2020 by lowenan

[lowenan]

13 hours ago, ArabAuslander said:

Sunday Ams is literally Sunday League, if these clubs want to play in the Scottish Cup, then they should either enter the pyramid or at the very least play on Saturdays.

Fair enough. A few of those teams would do really well at the Saturday amateurs, but there's a reason they play Sunday's and are happy with that. 

[Meadowman]

Is there a site equivalent to P&b that will be able to keep us updated about the real football getting played in the West of Scotland?

[Lowland team]

1 hour ago, cmontheloknow said:

You are wrong. Sorry. You are mixing up Full Membership (Club Licence) with Registered Membership. 

Rule 11 of the SJFA constitution.

https://www.scottishjuniorfa.com/media/2422/sjfa-constitution-rules-2019-20.pdf

Again being a registered member is just another name for affiliated member.the east of Scotland association is exactly the same.the association only has one vote.13 years ago they pushed this rule to allow the juniors to take part in the Scottish in the hope that the clubs ( juniors) would become members in those day there was no ground checks or £2.000 joining fee. now association members looking to become members (full) are having to get licensed to become members.i used to sit on the npg board and when asked about the juniors joining the pyramid or becoming members the junior delegate always said his members were happy the way things were.4 clubs by winning respective leagues and the junior cup got entry.it was only by persistent pressure on the sfa that they allowed the alex jack cup winners to take part.full members played the qualifying cup.as did girvin and linlithgow rose when they got licensed. 

[Shannon]

Is there a site equivalent to P&b that will be able to keep us updated about the real football getting played in the West of Scotland?

 

Yeah go to Scottish Professional Football League section on pie and bovril and below Highland League / Lowland League / East of Scotland League you will see West of Scotland Football League Forum.

 

https://www.pieandbovril.com/forum/index.php?/forum/137-west-of-scotland-football-league/

 

 

Also https://wosfl.co.uk/ will be a handy website to keep a look at as will have fixtures / league tables / news etc.

 

[Robert James]

On 23/04/2020 at 12:26, ArabAuslander said:

Still pretty disgraceful that the NCL don't have a Scottish Cup Berth.

 

Agreed.   Had the NCL champions been granted entry into the Scottish Cup, the following clubs would have qualified during  the last TEN years :

Halkirk United 4  times,

Thurso twice

Golspie Sutherland  twice champions (during the last decade), but as an SFA Member club, they automatically qualified for the Scottish Cup

Invergordon once

Orkney once

Current top of the NCL table,  Invergordon, may (also) be confirmed as champions for 2019/20, although the outcome of this season, has not yet been declared.  

[FairWeatherFan]

NCL membership in the last ten complete seasons

2009-10:    10    1 reserve team
2010-11:    10    1 reserve team
2011-12:    8      1 reserve team
2012-13:    7      1 reserve team
2013-14:    7      1 reserve team
2014-15:    6    
2015-16:    6    
2016-17:    8    
2017-18:    9    
2018-19:    9    

The league was on its knees during the period that saw the Amateurs and South & East Cup Winners Cup became qualifying routes.

 

[Andy groundhopper]

Interesting to read how the SFA works, licensing and membership etc, and how various leagues get votes,rather than clubs. Suppose when you reach a certain level, then a financial bond/guarantee at least shows the clubs are serious. Guess if you aren't happy with things - just stay down in the lower levels.

[Tutankhamen]

2 hours ago, Andy groundhopper said:

Interesting to read how the SFA works, licensing and membership etc, and how various leagues get votes,rather than clubs. Suppose when you reach a certain level, then a financial bond/guarantee at least shows the clubs are serious. Guess if you aren't happy with things - just stay down in the lower levels.

Have you tried the SFA website?

[Ginaro]

3 hours ago, Andy groundhopper said:

Interesting to read how the SFA works, licensing and membership etc, and how various leagues get votes,rather than clubs. Suppose when you reach a certain level, then a financial bond/guarantee at least shows the clubs are serious. Guess if you aren't happy with things - just stay down in the lower levels.

Knock yourself out https://www.scottishfa.co.uk/scottish-fa/football-governance/club-licensing/

[Robert James]

8 hours ago, FairWeatherFan said:

NCL membership in the last ten complete seasons

2009-10:    10    1 reserve team
2010-11:    10    1 reserve team
2011-12:    8      1 reserve team
2012-13:    7      1 reserve team
2013-14:    7      1 reserve team
2014-15:    6    
2015-16:    6    
2016-17:    8    
2017-18:    9    
2018-19:    9    

The league was on its knees during the period that saw the Amateurs and South & East Cup Winners Cup became qualifying routes.

 

 

With 4 new club applications for next season, the NCL appears to be on the up.

[effeffsee_the2nd]

Folks, just a friendly observer looking in. Can someone explain some of the nuances around licensing, especially where cups and promotion are concerned.
I get that minimum standards of some sort are required. Are they greater than what would be adequate for most teams at that level or about right? Is it about exclusivity at a time when we look to be making things more inclusive?
Is it a case of “ we had to do it x number of years ago so you better believe they c***s will be doing it too or we’re no letting them play” mentality ?

[Ginaro]

2 hours ago, effeffsee_the2nd said:

Folks, just a friendly observer looking in. Can someone explain some of the nuances around licensing, especially where cups and promotion are concerned.
I get that minimum standards of some sort are required. Are they greater than what would be adequate for most teams at that level or about right? Is it about exclusivity at a time when we look to be making things more inclusive?
Is it a case of “ we had to do it x number of years ago so you better believe they c***s will be doing it too or we’re no letting them play” mentality ?

You need an entry licence to automatically enter the Scottish Cup each season (unless you enter via one of the eight qualifying places available).

You need an entry licence to play in tier 5 - Highland/Lowland - and above. You need an entry rated ground but bronze-rated floodlights and a safety certificate to play in the SPFL. Then you need a bronze rated ground but silver rated floodlights to play in the Premiership and Championship.

The licensing manual is available here: https://www.scottishfa.co.uk/media/5839/scottish-fa-club-licensing-manual-2020.pdf

Full list of clubs here, another 6 should be added in June: https://www.scottishfa.co.uk/media/6062/club-licensing-current-update-february-2020.pdf

I think the standards are about right - basically floodlights, cover for 100, suitable dressing rooms, spectator facilities, and disabled provision. Have a look at some of the more basic licensed grounds on NLS like: https://nonleaguescotland.org.uk/burntisland.htm

https://nonleaguescotland.org.uk/coldstream.htm

https://nonleaguescotland.org.uk/wigtown.htm

It's different to England where each step on the non-league pyramid has its own ground grading requirements, and it's not tied to FA membership or FA Cup entry. Of course there's a lot more levels on their pyramid than ours, it's only a step 6 where an enclosed ground becomes a minimum requirement along with basic floodlights. Maybe more levels of grading will be introduced into our system eventually.

Edited April 25, 2020 by Ginaro

[Andy groundhopper]

Thanks will look through the pages of licensing stuff if I stay awake ! Admit the pyramid has worked well in England, most grounds have progressed slowly and within the clubs budgets, and are a vast improvement on the basic County LGE demands. Good luck to all in Scotland, some really good clubs and fans, from what I've seen.

[effeffsee_the2nd]

You need an entry licence to automatically enter the Scottish Cup each season (unless you enter via one of the eight qualifying places available).
You need an entry licence to play in tier 5 - Highland/Lowland - and above. You need an entry rated ground but bronze-rated floodlights and a safety certificate to play in the SPFL. Then you need a bronze rated ground but silver rated floodlights to play in the Premiership and Championship.
The licensing manual is available here: https://www.scottishfa.co.uk/media/5839/scottish-fa-club-licensing-manual-2020.pdf
Full list of clubs here, another 6 should be added in June: https://www.scottishfa.co.uk/media/6062/club-licensing-current-update-february-2020.pdf
I think the standards are about right - basically floodlights, cover for 100, suitable dressing rooms, spectator facilities, and disabled provision. Have a look at some of the more basic licensed grounds on NLS like: https://nonleaguescotland.org.uk/burntisland.htm
https://nonleaguescotland.org.uk/coldstream.htm
https://nonleaguescotland.org.uk/wigtown.htm
It's different to England where each step on the non-league pyramid has its own ground grading requirements, and it's not tied to FA membership or FA Cup entry. Of course there's a lot more levels on their pyramid than ours, it's only a step 6 where an enclosed ground becomes a minimum requirement along with basic floodlights. Maybe more levels of grading will be introduced into our system eventually.

That explains alot! Cheers also meant to ask why is there no grace period especially now as things are just getting started and lack of promotion due to licensing makes it all a bit redundant?

[Ginaro]

1 hour ago, effeffsee_the2nd said:

That explains alot! Cheers also meant to ask why is there no grace period especially now as things are just getting started and lack of promotion due to licensing makes it all a bit redundant?

There is a grace / derogation period for existing SFA members to get things sorted e.g. those without floodlights have been given a year to sort them after that criteria was introduced. Unfortunately the SFA didn't give any leeway to those applying in 2019 when they updated the requirements, leaving some clubs unable to get a licence with only a few months to install floodlights.

At least this time they've given advance warning of the floodlight criteria increasing to 200 lux for 2021.

The current covid-19 shouldn't affect licensing or promotion as only those who met the criteria in February will be rubber stamped at the SFA AGM in June, and Bo'ness are one of them.

[Ginaro]

Today's Sunday Mail quoting Clydebank, Kilwinning, Darvel, and Cambuslang saying they will not be retaining SJFA membership and playing in the Junior Cup next season. So that's 59 West clubs versus 62 in the East and North.