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Junior football, what is the future?


Burnie_man

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50 minutes ago, Beenzon-Toste said:

Hooray. Someone has actually got it.

 

55 minutes ago, Cyclizine said:

What you're missing is the WRJFA wanted themselves to be the West League at Tier 6. They've now agreed they'll be extinct from next season. Just sayin', I'm not sure that's exactly what they wanted...

Looks like I’m not the only one who gets it. Hooray.

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36 minutes ago, The Ilford Drummer said:

Surely won't have the neck to apply.

Maybe worth pointing out they wouldn't have to apply anyway. They're currently members of the SJFA until if/when they choose to resign. Until they do that, they're in next year's junior cup by default.

It'll be interesting to see how many choose to do so, bearing in mind big attraction of the junior cup was that up until the last three or four years there was the chance of an attractive awayday. As of next year, the only chance of drawing a team from outside the old West Region will be trips to what's left in West Lothian, Tayside or right up north, none of which options really yield all that many potential glamour ties.

 

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Maybe worth pointing out they wouldn't have to apply anyway. They're currently members of the SJFA until if/when they choose to resign. Until they do that, they're in next year's junior cup by default.
It'll be interesting to see how many choose to do so, bearing in mind big attraction of the junior cup was that up until the last three or four years there was the chance of an attractive awayday. As of next year, the only chance of drawing a team from outside the old West Region will be trips to what's left in West Lothian, Tayside or right up north, none of which options really yield all that many potential glamour ties.
 
As they no longer compete in Junior football, doesn't there need to be a change to the SJFA constitution to allow clubs to retain membership? The WRJFA won't exist.

There's no guarantee that remaining Junior clubs will want them in their competition and likely scooping up the money associated with the Junior Cup.

Carnoustie Panmure's recent tweet illustrated that not everyone is happy with that prospect.
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16 minutes ago, Hillonearth said:

Maybe worth pointing out they wouldn't have to apply anyway. They're currently members of the SJFA until if/when they choose to resign. Until they do that, they're in next year's junior cup by default.

 

Not quite. They have to pay their £35 annual membership fee before the AGM.

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4 minutes ago, BMan said:

As they no longer compete in Junior football, doesn't there need to be a change to the SJFA constitution to allow clubs to retain membership? The WRJFA won't exist.

There's no guarantee that remaining Junior clubs will want them in their competition and likely scooping up the money associated with the Junior Cup.

Carnoustie Panmure's recent tweet illustrated that not everyone is happy with that prospect.

I would imagine that there could be opposition from non-west clubs for the reasons you say...if a fair few in the West make the decision to resign SJFA membership, it's entirely conceivable the proposed rule changes could be outvoted and the west clubs would be out of the competition anyway regardless of their wishes.

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As they no longer compete in Junior football, doesn't there need to be a change to the SJFA constitution to allow clubs to retain membership? The WRJFA won't exist.

There's no guarantee that remaining Junior clubs will want them in their competition and likely scooping up the money associated with the Junior Cup.

Carnoustie Panmure's recent tweet illustrated that not everyone is happy with that prospect.
Can't see turkeys voting for xmas.
Excluding the WOSFL from the Scottish Junior Cup would bring about its demise.
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I would imagine that there could be opposition from non-west clubs for the reasons you say...if a fair few in the West make the decision to resign SJFA membership, it's entirely conceivable the proposed rule changes could be outvoted and the west clubs would be out of the competition anyway regardless of their wishes.
As it stands, can the west clubs vote at AGM as they will not meet the membership requirements at that time? Can the SJFA even offer to renew membership of west clubs until such time as the AGM passes a motion to amend the Constitution?
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9 minutes ago, Beenzon-Toste said:

Can't see turkeys voting for xmas.
Excluding the WOSFL from the Scottish Junior Cup would bring about its demise.

That's what I expect as well. Clubs here aren't universally happy with this, that's clear to me. But ultimately, would we want the Junior Cup (that is already devalued) become just a WL, Tayside & Grampian cup? I don't see that happening personally.

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Can't see turkeys voting for xmas.Excluding the WOSFL from the Scottish Junior Cup would bring about its demise.

The chances of a winner or semi finalist coming from the East or North has reduced significantly in recent years.  Remove west clubs who are now senior and it guarantees the £12k and £5k payments head east and/or north every year.

 

The SJFA is not a poor organisation to keep funding the Junior Cup short term.

 

 

 

 

 

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So the west moving (a good thing for the pyramid) has essentially transferred the power (who can play in, have access to award money and form the direction of travel for the competition) with relation to the junior Cup to the wosfl clubs.

Essentially clubs no longer in the sjfa (playing wise) are able to manage the sjfa's national competition and its future direction, should they choose to remain members.

The sjfa must be asking how things got here surely?

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2 hours ago, Beenzon-Toste said:

I asked the question nicely.
What's it to him?
His club has never accepted that they were Juniors, and they couldn't wait to leave the Association that gave them a lifeline. So they've decided to leave the Juniors? Who cares? I don't think anyone in the Juniors does. So why do they care so much about what they're leaving? Scared they've made the wrong decision?

Bankies obviously cared enough about football to join/rejoin the "Juniors".

Bankies obviously cared enough that one of them became a VP or something.

How many teams have folded in the "Juniors" since 2003 when the Bankies joined/rejoined? 

The Scottish Junior Cup is down to numbers not seen since the depths of the Second World War. Next season, without the "Seniors", it will be down to numbers not seen since the 1890s.

Clubs, regardless of support, have to do what is right for them and their futures. If the Bankies saw the writing on the wall then they had an obligation to do what is right for them. 

For the record I don't think Yoker Athletic are Juniors. They are a football team, that mostly played in "Junior Leagues". Now they will play in "Senior Leagues". They are still Yoker Athletic.  (Remember they were Juveniles and Intermediates too for spells)

Maybe they care about Scottish football and not petty, parochial, self interested "gradeism". Maybe they just cared about themselves. We all have to look after ourselves.

Junior officials are to football what CAMRA was to the beer world. They think they are everything to everybody but in reality all they have done is tried to turn back time to a dim and distant past "when things were better". 

If the Bankies have made the wrong decision then so has every other team in the defunct West Region? 

I doubt it will be smooth sailing for our ground share partners but at least they had the gumption to stand up and be counted.  And if it fails then who really cares - it is only football. It has always been only football. And if a serpentine snake pairs us in Conference then that will be just dandy.

Anyway this Ronney character seems to be claiming credit for everything "good" and not accepting any responsibilities for anything "bad", for the many failures that got us all to this point in time when clubs felt they had to do something because the blazers were sitting on their hands and not listening.

Progress is about protecting the future. It is not about forgetting the past.  

And if moving to a successful, thriving League is the answer then I am glad we have all made it.

Never mind what's it to him...

 

 

 

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The chances of a winner or semi finalist coming from the East or North has reduced significantly in recent years.  Remove west clubs who are now senior and it guarantees the £12k and £5k payments head east and/or north every year. 
The SJFA is not a poor organisation to keep funding the Junior Cup short term.
 
 
 
 
 
How long do you think that would last without the West? How long do you think a sponsorship would last without the West?
The people running the clubs in the East and North are not shortsighted and would see that without the West it would all fade away.
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1 minute ago, Beenzon-Toste said:

How long do you think that would last without the West? How long do you think a sponsorship would last without the West?
The people running the clubs in the East and North are not shortsighted and would see that without the West it would all fade away.

Has this plan been discussed with the East and North before a decision was made with the LL though? I do agree that the East & North both don't have much of a choice and the proposals will pass as a result, but I have reasons to believe they were pretty much ignored in all of this. I get the idea that plenty of clubs are not overly pleased with how it's been handled to put it mildly.

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How long do you think that would last without the West? How long do you think a sponsorship would last without the West?
The people running the clubs in the East and North are not shortsighted and would see that without the West it would all fade away.
It's going to fade away eventually anyway, however the SJFA have plenty of money to self fund say £25k a year "prizemoney" until that time happens, particularly if the post of Secretary becomes part-time/voluntary position saving £35k a year. It will undoubtedly find a sponsor to cover some of the prize money.

As someone else point out, the SJFA have assets of around £400-500k, the Secretary's pension will be in a pension fund and already accounted for.

The east and north do not need senior west clubs for the competition to continue for the forseeable future with the rewards at largely the current level. Why would they want senior west clubs competing and snaffling the money?
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15 hours ago, passbackdave said:

How does everyone feel about leaving the juniors but still retaining there place in the junior cup?

Mon the papers

Most junior clubs committee and fans for that matter are very insular and want to stay in the junior cup, why, because they do not know anything better.
I can see each season, more of these clubs who have moved over realising the junior cup is not that important anymore and don't enter the following season after season.

The junior grade has slowly been dropping in attendances and, my view, standard as well, so Junior football is finishing but so has Scottish football. Now we are just going to have nearly everyone playing football in one pyramid, that's it, and long may that continue because once we have everyone with the same vision I can only see prosperity of Scottish football, especially in the lower levels growing, not like it used to be in football but still reaching a good level.  I couldn't give a flying feck about the grade, I see junior football, which I played most of my career and have been involved with on coaching side, as a hinderance for teams who want to progress and now its open to any team to further their future and I wish every team well in doing so. We are now getting back to just football and the better teams will rise to the top.

This is a viewpoint thread so everyone, no matter how ludicrous or idiotic should be allowed to make a viewpoint and suppose I am no different but all this talk about seedings snake etc... has nothing to do with any of us. Its the Lowland, East of Scotland and South of Scotland leagues decision to work it out the best way that THEY think, well they are experienced enough at it.  Whenever a team joins a different league, especially at youth we abide by their rules and laws within the SYFA guidelines and everyone else should be no different when moving to the new WOS league.

In its new structure there will be some who disapprove and some who are happy, its the nature of the beast but guess what, so feck which conference your team is put into, every team is in TIER 6 and all are now on a level playing field for the season 20/21, so if unhappy, win every game and go in at the top division for season 21/22.

Edited by Bestsinceslicebread
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