Junior football, what is the future?

[FairWeatherFan]

11 minutes ago, edinabear said:

It's a bit of a shame that not more amateurs have signed up. This is pretty much a once in a lifetime opportunity through the conferences otherwise any new clubs will be joining tier 9/10 potentially.  Other sides in the Caledonian League for example. What have they got to lose?. 

 

Its something you'll see going forward. More so those with strong youth links wanting to create a player pathway. Problem with this year is that it will be quite short notice for many. They might already have concerns over their grounds and then COVID19 has probably put a stop to a lot of casual interest. Gives them a year to organise.

There's definitely going to be more examples like Rossvale, Gartcairn, Drumpchapel, Bonnyton, Inverkeithing, Cumbernauld Colts, East Kilbride, BSC Glasgow and those types of clubs. I'm sure the WoSFL will start having their own near applications like Syngenta, Musselburgh Windsor and Glenrothes Strollers of those testing the waters.

[jimbaxters]

4 hours ago, Doonhamer1969 said:

I'd tend to agree with that in principle, however as the comments in the group are visible to public, I don't see any problem.

The group admins have to make the FB group completely private if they dont want the comments visible to those not in the group.

Then paraphrase. To directly copy and paste simply to allow the regulars of this thread to tut, snigger and shake their cyber heads leaves me cold.

[Ginaro]

3 hours ago, G4Mac said:

Fair point. Hadnt thought of that with the alex jack cup, however the same still applies to be fair.

I cant actually see where both associations can align their fixture lists to fit the junior cup in (wosfl wont wait for sjfa fixtures). The sjfa also have an east and north region to keep happy whilst arranging any junior cup dates.

It's all about if a mish mash meaning that junior cup dates may have to be moved for wos league games and scc games, most likely moved to midweek.

Let's assume that everything was going to be normal for 2020-21 with 30 league games, SCC, SJC (no replays), and WOS Cup to fit in.

The main components of the EOS fixture list are:

1. Season start and end date (before the LL play-off which is aligned to the League Two play-off final)
2. The Scottish Cup / Alex Jack Cup
3. The South Challenge Cup (no league games scheduled on the rounds before the QFs)

It would be perfectly possible for the WOS/LL to communicate with the SJFA once those dates are set. The SJFA then tells the WOS/LL which 4 Saturdays to keep free of WOS matches, and the rest of the fixture list setting proceeds as normal.

There's 40 Saturdays available (not including Boxing day), plus at least two early season midweeks. I make it 5 SCC, 4 SJC and 1 WOS Cup where no league games would be initially scheduled. So unless my working is wrong there should be enough space to fit in the Junior Cup.

And yes in future more clubs will get licensed and take part in the Scottish Cup, but they will have floodlights so some league games can be played midweek.

Edited April 5, 2020 by Ginaro

[Talbot supporter]

Could have like a non league Scottish cup instead of the junior cup ?

[passbackdave]

Any idea how many cups there will be in the new sosl? Am lost with it all why r clubs retaining there junior status when there is only 8 junior clubs not applied for this wosl? Who is gonnie run the wosl?

Mon the papers

[AlanCamelonfan]

6 hours ago, Talbot supporter said:

Could have like a non league Scottish cup instead of the junior cup ?

Almost like the south challenge cup then

[parsforlife]

7 hours ago, Ginaro said:

Let's assume that everything was going to be normal for 2020-21 with 30 league games, SCC, SJC (no replays), and WOS Cup to fit in.

The main components of the EOS fixture list are:

1. Season start and end date (before the LL play-off which is aligned to the League Two play-off final)
2. The Scottish Cup / Alex Jack Cup
3. The South Challenge Cup (no league games scheduled on the rounds before the QFs)

It would be perfectly possible for the WOS/LL to communicate with the SJFA once those dates are set. The SJFA then tells the WOS/LL which 4 Saturdays to keep free of WOS matches, and the rest of the fixture list setting proceeds as normal.

There's 40 Saturdays available (not including Boxing day), plus at least two early season midweeks. I make it 5 SCC, 4 SJC and 1 WOS Cup where no league games would be initially scheduled. So unless my working is wrong there should be enough space to fit in the Junior Cup.

And yes in future more clubs will get licensed and take part in the Scottish Cup, but they will have floodlights so some league games can be played midweek.

There’s space for junior cup games to be scheduled for Saturday’s initially.  The issue kicks in when postponements come.  The league fixtures the following weekend will not be postponed to allow a 2nd attempt.   It can get rescheduled for the next ‘free’ weekend but these can be months apart and if you’ve had a league or SCC game postponed then they’ll be rescheduled in those free weekends first.

I find it very difficult in that scenario where junior cup games don’t end up being midweek.  Which either means looking for alternative venues or having  early evening kick offs in late season. Aberdeenshire clubs going to Ayrshire for 6pm kick off, it’s a nightmare 

[Pyramidic]

3 minutes ago, parsforlife said:

Aberdeenshire clubs going to Ayrshire for 6pm kick off, it’s a nightmare 

Regionalise the early stages of the draw. Use alternative suitable floodlit venues. There are ways around the problems that posters are surfacing.

[LongTimeLurker]

If they regionalised the first two rounds they could even double it up with other games so that the WoS league cup is also used as an SJC qualifying cup. They almost certainly don't need to adopt measures like that for the reasons that Ginaro outlined but the point I'm making is that where there's a will there's a way. The interesting part is going to be how much of a will there is going to be amongst east and north region clubs to accomodate the WoS on this. 

[Guest]

Let's assume that everything was going to be normal for 2020-21 with 30 league games, SCC, SJC (no replays), and WOS Cup to fit in.
The main components of the EOS fixture list are:

1. Season start and end date (before the LL play-off which is aligned to the League Two play-off final)
2. The Scottish Cup / Alex Jack Cup
3. The South Challenge Cup (no league games scheduled on the rounds before the QFs)

It would be perfectly possible for the WOS/LL to communicate with the SJFA once those dates are set. The SJFA then tells the WOS/LL which 4 Saturdays to keep free of WOS matches, and the rest of the fixture list setting proceeds as normal.
There's 40 Saturdays available (not including Boxing day), plus at least two early season midweeks. I make it 5 SCC, 4 SJC and 1 WOS Cup where no league games would be initially scheduled. So unless my working is wrong there should be enough space to fit in the Junior Cup.
And yes in future more clubs will get licensed and take part in the Scottish Cup, but they will have floodlights so some league games can be played midweek.

That's all good and well, however what I read into the joint statement is that the wos/LL wont keep saturdays free for the junior cup. The wording was very deliberate in saying wos fixtures will take priority over junior cup games.

I think for everyone, remaining junior clubs included, it will become another way for the junior cup to delay seasons as it has pretty much done for the last however many years.

Whilst theoretically it looks like there should be space, when you add in call offs (there will be, there always us) and look at the reality of the situation, it will be incredibly difficult to make it work, for both junior clubs and wos clubs. That's without considering wos clubs getting licensed.

[LongTimeLurker]

What was in the statement was that WoS league and SCC games would take priority. All that effectively means is that there can be no SJC replays the following Saturday. Ties have to be decided at the first time of asking on penalties in other words. North region clubs are already being consulted about making this change.

Edited April 6, 2020 by LongTimeLurker

[glensmad]

Who at the SJFA is going to be in discussions with the LL-WoSFL regarding fixture dates for the Scottish Junior Cup ? Presumably that will be the SJFA Secretary's job ? How this will work could depend on how good a relationship there is between whoever it is who negotiates the Scottish Junior Cup dates.

[Guest]

What was in the statement was that WoS league and SCC games would take priority. All that effectively means is that there can be no SJC replays the following Saturday. Ties have to be decided at the first time of asking on penalties in other words. North region clubs are already being consulted about making this change.

Yes, also meaning that the wos would not leave spare weekends to accommodate the junior cup. You can spin it both ways if you like but generally a statement which says scc and league fixtures take priority means they arent going to leave free weekends to accommodate another associations cup games.

 

In any case it remains to be seen what the outcome will be. It will be interesting to see how it all unfolds

[LongTimeLurker]

That's where the free Saturdays the EoS uses for the Alex Jack and Football Nation Qualifying Cup enter the picture. The WoS would be choosing to use the SJC for those dates for those clubs that still hold SJFA membership. 

[Guest]

Who at the SJFA is going to be in discussions with the LL-WoSFL regarding fixture dates for the Scottish Junior Cup ? Presumably that will be the SJFA Secretary's job ? How this will work could depend on how good a relationship there is between whoever it is who negotiates the Scottish Junior Cup dates.

Are the LL/wos really going to take the time to impact on their associations fixtures to accommodate the junior cup, a completely separate associations flagship cup? Whilst the LL are the most approachable people surely their flexibility has a stopping point.

[LongTimeLurker]

They have already stated that they will.

[Guest]

That's where the free Saturdays the EoS uses for the Alex Jack and Football Nation Qualifying Cup enter the picture. The WoS would be choosing to use the SJC for those dates for those clubs that still hold SJFA membership. 

So junior cup dates are now going to be organised around existing wos league games and gaps from pyramid cup fixtures? Have the north and east agreed to that? What is your thoughts on their potential reaction?

I ask out of interest because, if what I'm getting from you is correct, the ersjfa and nrsjfa are being guided on their national cup, and when fixtures will be played, by clubs who have moved into the pyramid but kept association membership.

[Guest]

They have already stated that they will.

Apologies if true, I hadnt seen this, all I've seen is the statement regarding league fixtures and scc fixtures taking priority.

[cmontheloknow]

10 hours ago, edinabear said:

It's a bit of a shame that not more amateurs have signed up. This is pretty much a once in a lifetime opportunity through the conferences otherwise any new clubs will be joining tier 9/10 potentially.  Other sides in the Caledonian League for example. What have they got to lose?. 

 

How many of them play in a recognisable football ground as opposed to a playing field or public park? I know a few EoS / potential EoS grounds are not fully enclosed but they are not public parks. Knowing your level applies inside the pyramid as well as out. I'm sure if any fancy it in years to come, they'll join where they have to - at the bottom.

[glensmad]

So junior cup dates are now going to be organised around existing wos league games and gaps from pyramid cup fixtures? Have the north and east agreed to that? What is your thoughts on their potential reaction?

I ask out of interest because, if what I'm getting from you is correct, the ersjfa and nrsjfa are being guided on their national cup, and when fixtures will be played, by clubs who have moved into the pyramid but kept association membership.

Correct, all of this "retain SJFA membership and play in the Scottish Junior Cup" has still to be rubber-stamped by a vote of the SJFA member clubs. And as far as I am aware no meeting has been called (obviously hard to do in the current climate) and no communication has been sent out to all of the SJFA clubs to advise them of any potential vote on this matter.