Junior football, what is the future?

[Doonhamer1969]

9 hours ago, BMan said:

Still here

 

I have said before, I always wanted Junior football to fill the void below the LL, I wanted Junior football to get involved in the LL from the very start. Could have happened. Didn't happen, and sadly it became apparent it was never going to happen due to the grades own sense of self importance and over estimation of its worth in the greater scheme of things.

 

There's been a few twists and turns along the way, I called things wrong, but what this thread has done is bring facts to the discussion and dispelled myths about the Pyramid. If that has had an effect on clubs decision making then so be it but I think you over estimate the influence of the forum.

 

Kelty, and then Dalkeith, rocked the Junior game to the core, and credit should go to them for having the baws to grasp the future. Everyone else merely followed.

 

I have never hated Junior football as some claim, I even compiled a book on the game which took years of research. I simply wanted the game to modernise, look outward and move with the times, but it was let down and ultimately killed by the "Junior men" at all levels who refused to see it was just 11 guys playing another 11 guys just like any other league in Scotland, Preston are no different from Penicuik, Whitehill no different to Bonnyrigg. 11 v 11. Why couldn't they play each other?

 

You're right, this thread has ran it's course, the future of the grade is now obvious to all. Time to move on.

 

It could have been different.

 

Stay safe and healthy everyone.

 

 

Especially Dalkieth I reckon, smaller club that grasped the thistle.

Their committee should be applauded.

[Doonhamer1969]

8 hours ago, Dev said:

Very late night summary to include Lanark United. Surely most, if not all, of the rest of the West Juniors have applied already?

53 Clubs which have Applied so far/have said that they will be applying:			** means Subject to Verification
Premiership (15)	Championship (15)	League One (13)	League Two (9)	Others (1)
Auchinleck Talbot	Arthurlie	Bellshill Athletic	Ashfield	Drumchapel Utd PYM
Beith Juniors	Blantyre Victoria	East Kilbride Thistle	Forth Wanderers
Benburb	Cambuslang Rangers	Girvan	Johnstone Burgh
Clydebank	Cumbernauld United	Glasgow Perthshire	Lugar Boswell Thistle **
Cumnock Juniors	Dalry Thistle	Greenock Juniors	Muirkirk Juniors
Glenafton Athletic	Darvel	Kello Rovers	Newmains United
Irvine Meadow XI	Gartcairn Juniors	Lanark United	St Anthony's
Kilbirnie Ladeside	Irvine Victoria	Larkhall Thistle	Vale of Clyde
Kilwinning Rangers	Kilsyth Rangers	Maryhill	Vale of Leven
Kirkintilloch Rob Roy	Neilston Juniors	Port Glasgow Juniors
Largs Thistle	Petershill	Royal Albert
Pollok	Renfrew	Shettleston
Rossvale	Shotts Bon Accord	Wishaw Juniors
Rutherglen Glencairn	St Roch's
Troon	Whitletts Victoria
(13) Not known to have applied so far:
Premiership (1)	Championship (1)	League One (3)	League Two (6)	Others (2)
Hurlford United	Craigmark Burntonians	Ardrossan Winton Rovers	Annbank United	Bonnyton Thistle
		Carluke Rovers	Ardeer Thistle	Glasgow University
		Lesmahagow Juniors	Maybole Juniors
			Saltcoats Victoria
			Thorniewood United
			Yoker Athletic

Not enough left for a viable West Junior league now, especially as there are almost certainly some of the 13 who have actually applied and just not gone public with it.

[Hossy87]

15 minutes ago, Doonhamer1969 said:

Thank f*ck for that !

Hat eating is not my speciality

Go on, it'll be something different for your isolation diet. 

[8MileBU]

18 hours ago, honestman54 said:

My red dot was due to what I regarded as a negative comment to the correct comment ive copied above.

Ah well that’s  fair enough I suppose. Shame you’ve not been as keen to do the same with the poster who’s only reason for being here is to annoy good contributors and spoil the thread.

[8MileBU]

11 hours ago, craigkillie said:

 

Enjoy the WOSL, I hope it makes you happy. Dear lord, what a sad little life, Burnieman. You ruined the grade completely so you could have everyone together and I hope now you can spend your time in the seniors getting lessons in grace and decorum. Because you have all the grace of a reversing dump truck without any tyres on.

So Burnieman, take your clubs and get off my Junior forum.

 

[Ian38018]

5 minutes ago, 8MileBU said:

18 hours ago, honestman54 said:

My red dot was due to what I regarded as a negative comment to the correct comment ive copied above.

Ah well that’s  fair enough I suppose. Shame you’ve not been as keen to do the same with the poster who’s only reason for being here is to annoy good contributors and spoil the thread.

Lets all undertake not to red dot anyone/anything - at least until the virus madness is over.  

[TheLad]

Erm,...Aye OK...we need an answer for the artist formerly known as Burnie_Man do we ?...
OK, I'll do it...Shoosh lads, let me speak,...Yes, initially we were sceptical but when it became obvious that you weren't going to shut the f**k up we decided just to keep you rambling on & on & on for several years until we were ready to loup straight in...this virus thing seems to have kyboshed the plan for a wee while but hopefully we'll all still be here and ready to rock after it clears up...and we will then proceed to whup some ass.
Just promise us that when your team is getting hammered by your new overlords at Lugar Boswell Thistle that you'll just gracefully bow down to the inevitable and not start a new campaign to restructure Scottish fitba ever again. Promise now. Scouts honour ?
P.S. Also hope that you are safe & healthy too.
Now...close the thread and wash your hands of it. Your evil work here is done.

What a chug

[8MileBU]

5 minutes ago, Ian38018 said:

Lets all undertake not to red dot anyone/anything - at least until the virus madness is over.  

Green dotted this just to take you to the ton! 

[Pyramidic]

The current list of 53 clubs that propose to join the WoSFL:

1. Lugar Boswell Thistle (SJFA West League Two)

2. Clydebank (SJFA West Region Premiership)

3. Kilwinning Rangers (SJFA West Region Premiership)

4. Rutherglen Glencairn (SJFA West Region Premiership)

5. Bellshill Athletic (SJFA West League One)

6. Drumchapel United (Central Scottish Amateur Premier Division)

7. Neilston Juniors (SJFA West Region Championship)

8. Maryhill (SJFA West League One)

9. Kello Rovers (SJFA West League One)

10. Blantyre Victoria (SJFA West Region Championship)

11. Kirkintilloch Rob Roy (SJFA West Region Premiership)

12. Vale of Clyde (SJFA West League Two)

13. Renfrew (SJFA West Region Championship)

14. Royal Albert (SJFA West League One)

15. Arthurlie (SJFA West Region Championship)

16. Newmains United (SJFA West League Two)

17. Kilsyth Rangers (SJFA West Region Championship)

18. Whitletts Victoria (SJFA West Region Championship)

19. Gartcairn Juniors (SJFA West Region Championship)

20. Cambuslang Rangers  (SJFA West Region Championship)

21. Cumbernauld United (SJFA West Region Championship)

22. Glasgow Perthshire (SJFA West League One)

23. Ashfield (SJFA West League Two)

24. Petershill (SJFA West Region Championship)

25. Greenock Juniors (SJFA West League One)

26. Larkhall Thistle (SJFA West League One)

27. Port Glasgow Juniors (SJFA West League One)

28. Pollok (SJFA West Region Premiership)

29. Darvel Juniors (SJFA West Region Championship)

30. Vale of Leven (SJFA West League Two)

31. Glenafton Athletic (SJFA West Region Premiership)

32. Johnstone Burgh (SJFA West League Two)

33. Auchinleck Talbot (SJFA West Region Premiership)

34. Largs Thistle (SJFA West Region Premiership)

35. Kilbirnie Ladeside (SJFA West Region Premiership)

36. Troon (SJFA West Region Premiership)

37. Irvine Meadow XI (SJFA West Region Premiership)

38. Beith Juniors (SJFA West Region Premiership) 

39. Shotts Bon Accord (SJFA West Region Championship)

40.  Forth Wanderers (SJFA West League Two)

41. Muirkirk Juniors (SJFA West League Two)

42. Benburb (SJFA West Region Premiership)  

43. Shettleston (SJFA West League One)

44. Irvine Victoria (SJFA West Region Championship)

45. Dalry Thistle (SJFA West Region Championship)

46. Cumnock Juniors (SJFA West Region Premiership)

47. Girvan (SJFA West League One)

48. Wishaw Juniors (SJFA West League One)

49. Rossvale (SJFA West Region Premiership)

50. East Kilbride Thistle (SJFA West League One)

51. St Anthony's (SJFA West League Two)

52. St Roch's (SJFA West Region Championship)

53. Lanark United (SJFA West League One)

 

The following 11 WRJFA clubs have yet to make a public declaration to join the WoSFL:

SJFA West Region Premiership (1 club)
- Hurlford United

SJFA West Region Championship (1 club)
- Craigmark Burntonians

SJFA West Region League One (3 clubs)
- Ardrossan Winton Rovers
- Carluke Rovers
- Lesmahagow

SJFA West Region League Two (6 clubs)
- Annbank United
- Ardeer Thistle
- Maybole Juniors
- Saltcoats Victoria
- Thorniewood United
- Yoker Athletic

In addition confirmation is awaited from the following 2 clubs:

- Glasgow University (Caledonian League Premier Division)
- Bonnyton Thistle (South of Scotland League)

A constitution of 66 clubs divided into 4 conferences is now awaited with anticipation.

Edited April 4, 2020 by Pyramidic

[kenny131]

10 hours ago, FairWeatherFan said:

https://jamiesjournalsmusings.wordpress.com/2020/04/03/ambition-and-uncertainty-in-the-juniors-as-clubs-prepare-to-jump-ship/

Some of the quotes from Gordon Ronney:

He said: “The Scottish Junior Cup is 134 years in existence.

“There have to be constitutional changes to allow it to fit into the fixture congestion and I believe those constitutional changes will take effect.

“It is still to be established whether clubs will compete in the South Challenge Cup or the Junior Cup… but I believe the vast majority of clubs will choose the Junior Cup because it’s a more lucrative cup, the prize money is substantial and it obviously carries a senior Scottish cup place.

“It’s loss its gloss a wee bit because of the East junior teams who left. I am of the opinion that it will go back to its original form.”

Time too move on ffs the Juniors are no more.  Sjfa trying to cling on to anything it's embarrassing...money grabbing arsehole. That cup died of any relevance when half the clubs left. Time to moth ball it and place it in a museum where it belongs.

[AsimButtHitsASix]

I think the hope from (some) in the Juniors is they can keep a decent sponsorship in place and entice former Junior clubs, and clubs who were never Junior, into gaining membership to get a shot at the cup and the money that goes along with it. Obviously the perceived history and prestige of the cup will play into those thoughts. There doesn't need to be a national non-league cup but, if there is to be one, there's no reason the Junior Cup can't slot into that position. It's up to the clubs to decide if that's the route they want to go down. If it doesn't catch on soon then the Junior Cup will just die a death and a new cup will created to fill that role.

[Hillonearth]

13 hours ago, Hossy87 said:

If we don't draw Maryhill in a conference we can sort out a preseason game maybe.

Good idea! Assuming we get a proper pre-season this year, that is!

[8MileBU]

18 hours ago, Marshmallo said:

Is big Rangers man 8MileBU adding anything of note to this thread other than crying about coloured circles?

I have him on my Ignore List so only see quoted posts when someone replies to him.

Far more of note than your incessant  spam, albeit a lot less in recent weeks due to being a key worker during a pandemic, whilst you sit in your bedroom making your wee list of nasty big boys that upset you. Don’t you worry about them though. In about 10 years you’ll be a big enough boy to just scroll past their posts. 

24 minutes ago, Hillonearth said:

Good idea! Assuming we get a proper pre-season this year, that is!

Doubt there’ll be anything that resembles a pre-season. In the current status of everything being cancelled, pre-season for 20/21 will likely be a couple of lung buster sessions and a clusterfuck of games to finish off this season. 

Edited April 4, 2020 by 8MileBU

[morley]

I see an article by Gordon Smith in the Herald today once again bringing up this stupid suggestion of reserve teams being added to the SFL and regional top leagues. Paints a picture how these premier reserve teams will save the part time lower SFL teams by brining big crowds, and calls out the tunnocks Cup as an example of this. Yet he shows no recognition at all, probably not aware, of the massive changes going on in the lower non leagues of the pyramid and now with the WoS league joining the pyramid, and fails to recognise as pointed out on here that the Premier colt teams do not bring big crowds at all in the Tunnocks cup. What a load of rubbish which has been thrown out by every league every time it comes up. May I say it will be new ambitious senior clubs getting promotion from through the pyramid into the spfl which will shake up and revitalise the lower league game in Scotland and help close the gap in standard between the Premier league and lower league, and not B teams of Premier sides. Get the idea thrown out and hope the top leagues don't entertain this stupid idea in a knee jerk reaction due to the covid19 crisis. 

Edited April 4, 2020 by morley

[Hillonearth]

7 minutes ago, 8MileBU said:

Doubt there’ll be anything that resembles a pre-season. In the current status of everything being cancelled, pre-season for 20/21 will likely be a couple of lung buster sessions and a clusterfuck of games to finish off this season. 

I suspect they'll try to complete this year's Junior Cup, which after all was very near completion.

Certainly (at least in the West) there's zero need to finish off the league campaigns though as almost everybody's moving on and promotion/relegation from the old setup is irrelevant to the conference system that'll be in place the first year.

[AsimButtHitsASix]

1 minute ago, morley said:

Yet he shows no recognition at all, probably not aware, of the massive changes going on in the lower non leagues of the pyramid and now with the WoS league joining the pyramid, and fails to recognise as pointed out on here that the Premier colt teams do not bring big crowds at all in the Tunnocks cup.

I think there is a (very small) rise in crowds for smaller part time teams when they play the Old Firm Colts in the Challenge Cup. Almost certainly caused by Rangers/Celtic fans in towns like Stranraer or Cowdenbeath using it as a chance to see their big team's wee team but that minor increase is negligible and I doubt very much would last if they were playing in a league as opposed to the one off novelty of a cup match.

Long term it will do so much more damage to those clubs to be viewed as "equals" of other clubs reserves.

[Marshmallo]

4 minutes ago, morley said:

I see an article by Gordon Smith in the Herald today once again bringing up this stupid suggestion of reserve teams being added to the SFL and regional top leagues. Paints a picture how these premier reserve teams will save the part time lower SFL teams by brining big crowds, and calls out the tunnocks Cup as an example of this. Yet he shows no recognition at all, probably not aware, of the massive changes going on in the lower non leagues of the pyramid and now with the WoS league joining the pyramid, and fails to recognise as pointed out on here that the Premier colt teams do not bring big crowds at all in the Tunnocks cup. What a load of rubbish which has been thrown out by every league every time it comes up. May it say it will be new senior clubs getting promotion from through the pyramid into the spfl which will revitalise the lower league game in Scotland, and not B teams of Premier sides. Get the idea thrown out and hope the top leagues don't entertain this stupid idea in a knee jerk reaction due to the covid19 crisis. 

The point about the crowd sizes is demonstrably untrue anyway, as shown by Celtic and Rangers B games barely cracking a couple of hundred. It's not an exaggeration to say that Bonnyrigg or Talbot, for example, would bring more financial benefit by way of crowd sizes than any of the B teams.

[Guest]

I think the hope from (some) in the Juniors is they can keep a decent sponsorship in place and entice former Junior clubs, and clubs who were never Junior, into gaining membership to get a shot at the cup and the money that goes along with it. Obviously the perceived history and prestige of the cup will play into those thoughts. There doesn't need to be a national non-league cup but, if there is to be one, there's no reason the Junior Cup can't slot into that position. It's up to the clubs to decide if that's the route they want to go down. If it doesn't catch on soon then the Junior Cup will just die a death and a new cup will created to fill that role.

There already is a cup for every team in the lowland area, it's called the south challenge cup. It includes every club in the lowland area from tier 5 down the way.

The wosfl teams will also partake in this cup, making it the cup you speak of.

The junior cup is an 'opt in' cup and I dont foresee any previous junior clubs wishing to pay into an association where the only thing they get is access to a type of cup they already have access to for free with the eos or LL.

Most former junior clubs in the east have moved beyond the junior cup, they are licensed now and the senior scottish is providing them what the junior cup used to, along with all the other benefits for being licensed.

The west (clubs and office bearers) have to accept that the junior cup now sits in a position below the LL, eosfl, wosfl sos and most likely the south challenge cup. It was stated that wos league games will take precedence over junior cup games, I would also expect that the LL/eos/sos will want their own cup(s) to take precedence over over another associations cup, given that association sits outwith the pyramid.

[EdinburghBlue]

I think there is a (very small) rise in crowds for smaller part time teams when they play the Old Firm Colts in the Challenge Cup. Almost certainly caused by Rangers/Celtic fans in towns like Stranraer or Cowdenbeath using it as a chance to see their big team's wee team but that minor increase is negligible and I doubt very much would last if they were playing in a league as opposed to the one off novelty of a cup match.

Long term it will do so much more damage to those clubs to be viewed as "equals" of other clubs reserves.

Tiny increases in crowds offset by substantial increase in stewarding/policing costs.

[AsimButtHitsASix]

8 minutes ago, G4Mac said:

There already is a cup for every team in the lowland area, it's called the south challenge cup. It includes every club in the lowland area from tier 5 down the way.

The wosfl teams will also partake in this cup, making it the cup you speak of.

It's not a national cup so it's not the cup I speak of.