Junior football, what is the future?

[FairWeatherFan]

At the moment its looking good for the South Challenge Cup to have 143 clubs in it next year. Certainly will need an extra early round fitted into August/September time further shrinking the calendar for clubs in the EoSFL. You've also got potentially an extra 10 teams in the other EoS Cups which means fewer byes in the first round.

16 Lowland League
39 EoSFL
13 SoSFL
1  Glasgow University
63 West Region to WoSFL
1  Drumpchapel United to WoSFL
9  Applicants to the EoSFL
1  Eyemouth United possible return to the EoSFL

Don't think you can fit the Junior Cup in.

[FairWeatherFan]

[Guest]

I did just pluck that name out of the air just as an example.   
But I am sure a number of the larger ex-ERSJFA clubs wistfully think back to Junior Cup tussles with West Region Big Lads, as something special lost.

I would have to be convinced of that. I'm not sure many are spending overly much time looking back the way at the junior cup, most have looked forward to the big scottish and licensing.

[Bestsinceslicebread]

12 minutes ago, FairWeatherFan said:

At the moment its looking good for the South Challenge Cup to have 143 clubs in it next year. Certainly will need an extra early round fitted into August/September time further shrinking the calendar for clubs in the EoSFL. You've also got potentially an extra 10 teams in the other EoS Cups which means fewer byes in the first round.

16 Lowland League
39 EoSFL
13 SoSFL
1  Glasgow University
63 West Region to WoSFL
1  Drumpchapel United to WoSFL
9  Applicants to the EoSFL
1  Eyemouth United possible return to the EoSFL

Don't think you can fit the Junior Cup in.

My view here:   Most junior wont want to accept it but as the years progress the junior cup will just be a fading memory and a fantastic history to look back on.  Teams will realise how good the pyramid system is and how all the teams are progressing to try and get licensed and into tier 5 etc... and the junior cup, held in high esteem by many will be less important.

[FairWeatherFan]

6 minutes ago, G4Mac said:

I would have to be convinced of that. I'm not sure many are spending overly much time looking back the way at the junior cup, most have looked forward to the big scottish and licensing.
 

They're going to be getting East v West in the SCC. Then in a year a bunch of West clubs will get licenced and they'll be getting East v. West in the early rounds of the Scottish Cup. That's two helpings instead of just the one from the Junior days.

There's nothing to miss except the showpiece cup final. Which only existed for a few and the SCC could evolve into that. Its had finals at Falkirk Stadium and Palmerston. Right tie, right venue and right promotion the SCC final could get a decent gate that would match up to Junior Cup finals of recent years.

[Ian38018]

17 minutes ago, G4Mac said:

I would have to be convinced of that. I'm not sure many are spending overly much time looking back the way at the junior cup, most have looked forward to the big scottish and licensing.
 

You are correct, I am sure looking at things as a whole, most of these clubs are convinced they have made the correct decision.

Not sure Arniston Rangers are having much fun these days, though.

[AlanCamelonfan]

1 minute ago, Ian38018 said:

You are correct, I am sure looking at things as a whole, most of these clubs are convinced they have made the correct decision.

Not sure Arniston Rangers are having much fun these days, though.

But with arniston the same might have happened anyway had they stayed in the grade or we all stayed in the grade

[LongTimeLurker]

A reminder from the guy I am alleged to be of what the SJC used to be like 40 years ago:

 

there's a reason why many who remember those days see it as something worth holding onto.

[Guest]

They're going to be getting East v West in the SCC. Then in a year a bunch of West clubs will get licenced and they'll be getting East v. West in the early rounds of the Scottish Cup. That's two helpings instead of just the one from the Junior days.
There's nothing to miss except the showpiece cup final. Which only existed for a few and the SCC could evolve into that. Its had finals at Falkirk Stadium and Palmerston. Right tie, right venue and right promotion the SCC final could get a decent gate that would match up to Junior Cup finals of recent years.

Hence my response, the junior cup was the pinnacle for some, a good day out for others and was a delay to the season for most.

The scc and senior Scottish will give everything the junior cup used to give clubs and have less of an impact on their season.

Unfortunate as it may be for its supporters the junior cup will fade away in the coming seasons and I'd suppose it might be best to retire it at its peak instead of watching it drift into retirement with nothing to show for itself.

[Ian38018]

 

19 minutes ago, Bestsinceslicebread said:

At the moment its looking good for the South Challenge Cup to have 143 clubs in it next year. Certainly will need an extra early round fitted into August/September time further shrinking the calendar for clubs in the EoSFL. You've also got potentially an extra 10 teams in the other EoS Cups which means fewer byes in the first round.

16 Lowland League
39 EoSFL
13 SoSFL
1  Glasgow University
63 West Region to WoSFL
1  Drumpchapel United to WoSFL
9  Applicants to the EoSFL
1  Eyemouth United possible return to the EoSFL

Don't think you can fit the Junior Cup in.

I had not quite appreciated how all-encompassing the South Challenge Cup will be.   

 

 

Edited April 3, 2020 by Ian38018

[Sunrise]

Just now, LongTimeLurker said:

A reminder from the guy I am alleged to be of what the SJC used to be like 40 years ago:

 

there's a reason why many who remember those days see it as something worth holding onto.

Peterhead got an 8000+ crowd - midweek - when they hosted Raith Rovers in the Scottish Cup in 1987.

That's not in itself reason to go back to those Highland League days.

[Sergeant Wilson]

27 minutes ago, FairWeatherFan said:

Because it's in Auchinleck and they're keeping it.

[Ian38018]

2 minutes ago, LongTimeLurker said:

A reminder from the guy I am alleged to be of what the SJC used to be like 40 years ago:

 

there's a reason why many who remember those days see it as something worth holding onto.

I fell in love with Junior Football watching Bo'ness defeat Darvel (or Dalry) at Brockville just a couple of years after this.

[razamanaz]

4 minutes ago, LongTimeLurker said:

A reminder from the guy I am alleged to be of what the SJC used to be like 40 years ago:

 

there's a reason why many who remember those days see it as something worth holding onto.

I'm sure it was either this game or the Bo'ness game, felt like there was about 25,000 at the game and Falkirk said there was only 15,000! They never spent it on Brockville anyway!

[Marshmallo]

9 minutes ago, LongTimeLurker said:

A reminder from the guy I am alleged to be of what the SJC used to be like 40 years ago:

 

there's a reason why many who remember those days see it as something worth holding onto.

Was Tommy Trainer a real name?

[Guest]

A reminder from the guy I am alleged to be of what the SJC used to be like 40 years ago:

 

there's a reason why many who remember those days see it as something worth holding onto.

And it was held in high regard in the 80s, 90s and 00s.....in it's current format, with so much in, out and shake it all about....will we, wont we...it isnt the all in cup it once was.

 

Football has moved on. The scottish junior cup final is no longer the holy grail. Clubs have now progressed into playing in the senior scottish and getting licensed, this has been the direction of travel.

 

What can the scottish junior cup offer clubs that every other non league cup (scc et al) and senior scottish cant? Sadly, nothing in it's current format.

 

The days you posted are gone. It's time people accept it and move on, remembering the good days and the memories, but that shouldnt stand in the way of progression.

 

It's like saying my great uncle scored into those goals at the park, we shouldnt replace them with new ones, even if the new ones are free and much better for everyone who uses them and the old set from 1902 are falling down. Whilst the old goals are fond in the memory, the new ones are better.

 

[Ian38018]

1 minute ago, G4Mac said:

And it was held in high regard in the 80s, 90s and 00s.....in it's current format, with so much in, out and shake it all about....will we, wont we...it isnt the all in cup it once was.

Football has moved on. The scottish junior cup final is no longer the holy grail. Clubs have now progressed into playing in the senior scottish and getting licensed, this has been the direction of travel.

What can the scottish junior cup offer clubs that every other non league cup (scc at al) and senior scottish cant? Sadly, nothing in it's current format.

The days you posted are gone. It's time people accept it and move on, remembering the good days and the memories, but that shouldnt stand in the way of progression.

It's like saying my great uncle scored into those goals at the park, we shouldnt replace them with new ones, even if the new ones are free and much better for everyone who uses them and the old set from 1902 are falling down. Whilst the old goals are fond in the memory, the new ones are better.

Yep, I can go with that.   Was just throwing out a few interesting (to me) What If's earlier.

[archieb]

42 minutes ago, Ian38018 said:

So "if the rules get changed" is the important bit.  I assume this would be by a show of hands by delegates at the 2020 AGM? 

 Do only the rump clubs attend and get a vote?  Or do those clubs nipping off to WoSL still attend the AGM - and hence vote upon the rule change? 

So that even if the remaining Junior clubs wish to retain the Junior Cup for Juniors only, they will be out-voted.

Also, do these WosL/Retained Junior status clubs get to attend each subsequent AGM, voting upon matters which (for the most part) do not concern them?

What a muddy puddle!

IF the WoSL clubs, or any others, are indeed able to retain their membership of the national association, then they ARE members. So of course they'd be entitled to attend the AGM, and of course they have full voting rights.

Unless and until they either resign or are expelled - so the key point is, at what stage and through what procedure would or could those clubs that have applied to the WoSL be deprived of their SJFA membership?

And what services and privileges does that membership provide other than entry to the Junior Cup?

[Footballfirst]

5 minutes ago, Marshmallo said:

Was Tommy Trainer a real name?

I remember Tommy Traynor who played for Hearts, Dundee Utd and Falkirk in the 60s and 70s.

[Guest]

Yep, I can go with that.   Was just throwing out a few interesting (to me) What If's earlier.

Sorry, my reply wasnt aimed at you. You asked pertinent points that have been considered and discussed many times on the forum previously.