Junior football, what is the future?

[LongTimeLurker]

I guess Hurlford are the main one to watch now. They have tweeted this:

 

[Doonhamer1969]

1 hour ago, LongTimeLurker said:

I guess Hurlford are the main one to watch now. They have tweeted this:

 

Regarding conferences, and bearing in mind the numbers of teams now applying, I think they should go for regionalisation at the lower levels. Otherwise, if the conferences are for one season only , the bottom teams in each conference could drop from Tier 6 to Tier 9 or 10 in one go. Seems harsh for perhaps one bad season.

If its 4 conferences, regionalisation would only drop them 2 tiers after one season, ie Tier 6 one league, Tier 7 one league, Tier 8 two regional leagues.

Edited April 2, 2020 by Doonhamer1969

[The Ilford Drummer]

5 hours ago, San Starko Rover said:

Exactly, any WRJFA clubs who are concerned the LL are only interested in the "Big Guns" go and look at the SOSFL and EOSFL which cater to multiple small clubs none of who have expressed a desire to leave the set up and none have been discarded from the set up.  Retaining SJFA membership was a condition the WRJFA wanted to allow clubs to play in the SJC exactly like Kelty can play in the Fife cup through FifeFA membership its not a safety blanket or a fall back it's simply for access to the SJC and optional for clubs joining if they want to keep SJFA membership.  Every club who meets the very basic criteria for the SOSFL/WOSFL/EOSFL will almost certainly be accepted in the set up.  

Out of interest have any clubs said they're not retaining SJFA membership when they join or are all intending to keep access to the Scottish Junior Cup?

Kilwinning and Clydebank are two, maybe 1 or 2 others

[Hillonearth]

11 hours ago, Frodo17 said:

Having spoken with management at Glasgow Perthshire FC there is a genuine feeling of uncertainty. 

The Future seems more clouded than ever as looking at where we are and where we are headed it would seem that clubs like ourselves are being taken as a token gesture. It remains to be seen what the official decision will be as to league set ups but it seems likely BIG clubs will be favoured with the rest basically fulfilling an obligation to take all on board. 

As we stand some clubs haven't made official statement of their position, is there a reason? 

Is there also a reason for maintaining SJFA membership, other than the Junior cup reason as seems fiimsy. 

Is there a potential parachute if this doesn't work as the organisations hope? 

My fear is that Lowland will have their way and clubs known as BIG GUNS will be bedded in and the rest of us will be cast adrift. 

Are there any others with these concerns? 

It's a fair enough post that probably sums up how a lot of clubs that probably don't want to go in their heart of hearts are feeling right now, though I think it's answerable.

it seems likely BIG clubs will be favoured with the rest basically fulfilling an obligation to take all on board.

It has to be said here that it has been made clear from Day 1 that there would be no cherrypicking of clubs - the insistence that there would be only came from the West Region, and has since been proved false. Why? Because that's what a pyramid is...it needs to be wider at the bottom than it is at the top...creaming off the likes of Talbot, Buffs and Pollok and leaving the rest to rot wouldn't create a pyramid. 

As we stand some clubs haven't made official statement of their position, is there a reason? 

Some are probably still talking, others won't want to apply but are undoubtedly having their hand forced by the WRSJFA's very recent180 degree shift to "all-in"

Is there also a reason for maintaining SJFA membership, other than the Junior cup reason as seems fiimsy. 

That's the reality of the situation. My club hasn't yet decided whether we'll resign from the SJFA if we're accepted into the new league, but personally I think things point towards us doing so, as retaining membership of two associations for the sake of one cup that might still disrupt the season seems as you say a flimsy reason. Initially a lot of clubs will retain membership as a sort of security blanket, though I imagine the numbers will drop year on year.

Is there a potential parachute if this doesn't work as the organisations hope? 

No...it's largely the same clubs playing the same clubs and the leagues will look much the same as they do now after the first year...what could go so catastrophically wrong that parachute payments would be required? Some clubs will spend themselves into financial bother and will then plummet down the leagues, and the odd club might fold through lack of local interest. That's been the case with the current setup for decades and there has never been any suggestion of propping clubs up there.

My fear is that Lowland will have their way and clubs known as BIG GUNS will be bedded in and the rest of us will be cast adrift. 

That fear flies in the face of all the evidence over in the East. It's working out well over there....another seven or eight teams are leaving the Juniors for the EoS...none of them with all due respect could be classed as big guns. More significantly, no-one's asked to come back.

Are there any others with these concerns? 

I wouldn't be surprised. Out of the 63 current WRSJFA sides, there were 15+ who didn't express an interest in the new league, which is to any rational mind proof that they didn't want to move...even out of the ones who did express an interest there might be a few who only wanted to hear what the proposals were and have subsequently decided it wasn't for them. They are now having their hands forced into applying, and that force is coming from one direction only.

 

Edited April 2, 2020 by Hillonearth

[Pyramidic]

I am having problems locating the original SJFA Pyramid Survey spread sheet. 

It will be interesting to see how the ERJFA West Lothian rump clubs voted.

I have a feeling that one or two clubs may have been somewhat disingenuous having voted for the Pyramid and are now taking every possible step to avoid the new “Junior friendly” version with access to the Junior Cup.,

What clubs fall within this category? What would have changed their minds?

[cmontheloknow]

11 hours ago, Frodo17 said:

Having spoken with management at Glasgow Perthshire FC there is a genuine feeling of uncertainty. 

The Future seems more clouded than ever as looking at where we are and where we are headed it would seem that clubs like ourselves are being taken as a token gesture. It remains to be seen what the official decision will be as to league set ups but it seems likely BIG clubs will be favoured with the rest basically fulfilling an obligation to take all on board. 

As we stand some clubs haven't made official statement of their position, is there a reason? 

Is there also a reason for maintaining SJFA membership, other than the Junior cup reason as seems fiimsy. 

Is there a potential parachute if this doesn't work as the organisations hope? 

My fear is that Lowland will have their way and clubs known as BIG GUNS will be bedded in and the rest of us will be cast adrift. 

Are there any others with these concerns? 

April Fools was before midday yesterday mate. Maybe that's too harsh!

Anyway, this thread has got a lot of knowledgeable posters who can (I would hope) put your mind at ease.

Football's football. The Junior 'grade' almost wiped itself out by not playing ball with the PWG but it would seem the West Region have managed to salvage something. You'll still be playing the same teams. Not a lot will change. It won't be any worse anyway I'd wager. Maybe even better? General view of the clubs who went EoS is that it revitalised their clubs.

Edited April 2, 2020 by cmontheloknow

[FairWeatherFan]

20 minutes ago, Pyramidic said:

I am having problems locating the original SJFA Pyramid Survey spread sheet. 

It will be interesting to see how the ERJFA West Lothian rump clubs voted.

I have a feeling that one or two clubs may have been somewhat disingenuous having voted for the Pyramid and are now taking every possible step to avoid the new “Junior friendly” version with access to the Junior Cup.,

What clubs fall within this category? What would have changed their minds?

[patriot1]

2 hours ago, The Ilford Drummer said:

Kilwinning and Clydebank are two, maybe 1 or 2 others

Those are the only two to say publicly that they are resigning. Plenty of clubs have said that they are staying in the SJFA and at least a dozen didn't say one way or other in their statements. 

I would still be amazed if we don't have all 63 teams applying to the WOS. 

[archieb]

So, Armadale and Bathgate voted Yes to the pyramid while Broxburn voted No.

Not sure what that proves?

[Pyramidic]

Cheers FWF.

So if we refer to the SJFA Pyramid Survey spread sheet from March 2018 the following ERJFA West Lothian clubs supported joining the Pyramid:

FOR

Armadale Thistle
Bathgate Thistle
Fauldhouse United
Harthill Royal
Livingston United

AGAINST

Pumpherston Juniors
Stoneyburn Juniors
West Calder United
Whitburn Juniors

It appears that the 2020/21 season will again see these nine West Lothian clubs outwith the Pyramid. That is their choice. BUT it would be helpful if those involved with WL clubs can explain why more than half want to join the Pyramid but as a group they remain defiantly opposed to the Pyramid. It is a confusing conundrum.

If the clubs remain determined not to join the EoSFL at the end of the 2020/21 season, I would suggest that a "Pyramid link" is fashioned which would enable the champions of ERJFA Superleague South being eligible for promotion to the EoSFL First Division.

It would be a little messy but at least we would then have a fully operational pyramid covering the East of Scotland for 2021/22.

Edited April 2, 2020 by Pyramidic

[craigkillie]

2 hours ago, The Ilford Drummer said:

Kilwinning and Clydebank are two, maybe 1 or 2 others

I think it's worth pointing out that (as far as I know) Kilwinning and Clydebank both said they were resigning from the SJFA before the WRJFA/LL agreement suggested clubs could remain SJFA members and still play in the WoS. It's therefore entirely possible that both have changed their minds in light of that.

[Pyramidic]

The current list of 48 clubs that propose to join the WoSFL:

1. Clydebank (SJFA West Region Premiership)

2. Kilwinning Rangers (SJFA West Region Premiership)

3. Rutherglen Glencairn (SJFA West Region Premiership)

4. Bellshill Athletic (SJFA West League One)

5. Drumchapel United (Central Scottish Amateur Premier Division)

6. Neilston Juniors (SJFA West Region Championship)

7. Maryhill (SJFA West League One)

8. Kello Rovers (SJFA West League One)

9. Blantyre Victoria (SJFA West Region Championship)

10. Kirkintilloch Rob Roy (SJFA West Region Premiership)

11. Vale of Clyde (SJFA West League Two)

12. Renfrew (SJFA West Region Championship)

13. Royal Albert (SJFA West League One)

14. Arthurlie (SJFA West Region Championship)

15. Newmains United (SJFA West League Two)

16. Kilsyth Rangers (SJFA West Region Championship)

17. Whitletts Victoria (SJFA West Region Championship)

18. Gartcairn Juniors (SJFA West Region Championship)

19. Cambuslang Rangers  (SJFA West Region Championship)

20. Cumbernauld United (SJFA West Region Championship)

21. Glasgow Perthshire (SJFA West League One)

22. Ashfield (SJFA West League Two)

23. Petershill (SJFA West Region Championship)

24. Greenock Juniors (SJFA West League One)

25. Larkhall Thistle (SJFA West League One)

26. Port Glasgow Juniors (SJFA West League One)

27. Pollok (SJFA West Region Premiership)

28. Darvel Juniors (SJFA West Region Championship)

29. Vale of Leven (SJFA West League Two)

30. Glenafton Athletic (SJFA West Region Premiership)

31. Johnstone Burgh (SJFA West League Two)

32. Auchinleck Talbot (SJFA West Region Premiership)

33. Largs Thistle (SJFA West Region Premiership)

34. Kilbirnie Ladeside (SJFA West Region Premiership)

35. Troon (SJFA West Region Premiership)

36. Irvine Meadow XI (SJFA West Region Premiership)

37. Beith Juniors (SJFA West Region Premiership) 

38. Shotts Bon Accord (SJFA West Region Championship)

39.  Forth Wanderers (SJFA West League Two)

40. Muirkirk Juniors (SJFA West League Two)

41. Benburb (SJFA West Region Premiership)  

42. Shettleston (SJFA West League One)

43. Irvine Victoria (SJFA West Region Championship)

44. Dalry Thistle (SJFA West Region Championship)

45. Cumnock Juniors (SJFA West Region Premiership)

46. Girvan (SJFA West League One)

47. Wishaw Juniors (SJFA West League One)

48. Rossvale (SJFA West Region Premiership)

SJFA West Region Premiership (15 clubs)

Auchinleck Talbot; Beith Juniors; Benburb; Clydebank; Cumnock Juniors; Glenafton Athletic; Hurlford United; Irvine Meadow; Kilbirnie Ladeside; Kilwinning Rangers; Kirkintilloch Rob Roy; Largs Thistle; Pollok; Rossvale; Rutherglen Glencairn; Troon

SJFA West Region Championship (14 clubs)

Arthurlie; Blantyre Victoria; Cambuslang Rangers; Craigmark Burntonians; Cumbernauld United; Dalry Thistle; Darvel Juniors; Gartcairn Juniors; Irvine Victoria; Kilsyth Rangers; Neilston Juniors; Petershill; Renfrew; Shotts Bon Accord; St Roch's; Whitletts Victoria

SJFA West Region League One (11 clubs)

Ardrossan Winton Rovers; Bellshill Athletic; Carluke Rovers; East Kilbride Thistle; Girvan; Glasgow Perthshire; Greenock Juniors; Kello Rovers; Lanark United; Larkhall Thistle; Lesmahagow; Maryhill; Port Glasgow; Royal Albert; Shettleston; Wishaw Juniors

SJFA West Region League Two (7 clubs)

Annbank United; Ardeer Thistle; Ashfield; Forth Wanderers; Johnstone Burgh; Lugar Boswell Thistle; Maybole Juniors; Muirkirk Juniors; Newmains United; Saltcoats Victoria; St Anthony's; Thorniewood United; Vale of Clyde; Vale of Leven; Yoker Athletic

South of Scotland League (0 clubs)

Abbey Vale; Bonnyton Thistle; Caledonian Braves Res; Creetown; Heston Rovers; Lochar Thistle; Lochmaben; Mid-Annandale; Newton Stewart; Nithsdale Wanderers; St Cuthbert Wanderers; Stranraer Res; Threave Rovers; Upper Annandale; Wigtown & Bladnoch

Amateurs (1 club)

Drumchapel United PYM; Glasgow University; Oban Saints; Strathclyde University

More applicants to follow to be added to the growing list!

[Robert James]

FUTURE OF THE JUNIORS

WEST

As the deadline for applications is less than 6 days away, it is evident that the formation of the West of Scotland (pyramid) League has been a success, with at least 49 applications to date.  The remaining question will be which Junior clubs (if any) don't submit an application to the LL's new 'feeder' league ? 

EAST

I have not yet seen confirmation from the EoSL, about the final number of new clubs who actually applied to join for 2020/21. Was it 8 junior clubs in total, or were there any surprising 'late'  applications from West Lothian, or north of the Tay clubs (testing the SLL/HFL boundary, as Luncarty have done)  ?  Did any amateur clubs also apply ?  Has Eyemouth reactivated its dormant EoSL membership ? The future of ERJFA Juniors remains very unclear.

NORTH

Some discussions were held with the North juniors, about the possibility of them joining a Highland pyramid, alongside the North Caledonian League. Someone on here referred to TJ and the SFA being involved (?).  However, in the absence of any further/recent information, it now appears that nothing is happening about the North Juniors joining the pyramid. Or have I missed something ?

In the meantime, according to the Inverness Courier,  four new clubs have applied to join the NCL for 2020/21. They are :  Loch Ness (Inverness & District League), new club Scourie (from north west Sutherland),  HFL club's Nairn County Development XI, and the return of Alness United (subject to a new ground lease being agreed).  North Caley officials have met with SFA and and HFL reps, andthey have been transparent about their clubs interest in joining the pyramid. 

Will the North Juniors be left behind ? 

****

THERE IS STILL WORK TO BE DONE IF THE SCOTTISH PYRAMID IS TO BECOME TRULY NATIONAL.

 

 

[Pyramidic]

Optimism at Gartcairn:

Gartcairn boss West of Scotland League dream to join Airdrie and Albion Rovers in the SPFL

https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/local-sport/gartcairn-boss-west-scotland-league-21792523

 

[Stag Nation]

10 minutes ago, Pyramidic said:

Optimism at Gartcairn:

Gartcairn boss West of Scotland League dream to join Airdrie and Albion Rovers in the SPFL

https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/local-sport/gartcairn-boss-west-scotland-league-21792523

 

"Dream to join Albion Rovers" - Have these people no ambition?

[patriot1]

34 minutes ago, craigkillie said:

I think it's worth pointing out that (as far as I know) Kilwinning and Clydebank both said they were resigning from the SJFA before the WRJFA/LL agreement suggested clubs could remain SJFA members and still play in the WoS. It's therefore entirely possible that both have changed their minds in light of that.

https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/spfl-pyramid-masterplan-agreed-juniors-21753119

Read all the way to the bottom.

Maybe someone who tuned into to Kilwinnings Q & A session this week could let us know what came out of it.

[Bestsinceslicebread]

13 hours ago, Frodo17 said:

Having spoken with management at Glasgow Perthshire FC there is a genuine feeling of uncertainty. 

The Future seems more clouded than ever as looking at where we are and where we are headed it would seem that clubs like ourselves are being taken as a token gesture. It remains to be seen what the official decision will be as to league set ups but it seems likely BIG clubs will be favoured with the rest basically fulfilling an obligation to take all on board. 

As we stand some clubs haven't made official statement of their position, is there a reason? 

Is there also a reason for maintaining SJFA membership, other than the Junior cup reason as seems fiimsy. 

Is there a potential parachute if this doesn't work as the organisations hope? 

My fear is that Lowland will have their way and clubs known as BIG GUNS will be bedded in and the rest of us will be cast adrift. 

Are there any others with these concerns? 

This is worrying
I have never heard anything so backward, ignorant and without foundation in my life.
There is absolutely no way you can come to these conclusions and worry as there is no reason,  unless you have listen to the normal attitude of the save the junior brigade.

I haven't even put a negative on your post as most should but if I was part of that committee I would get my finger out and contact a few EOS clubs and SOS clubs and find out more information.  If after contacting these teams in the leagues and you still feel the same way then you, even if I felt that way then I would not join the WOS, its so easy to find out the truth and the right information

I wish you and your team well in their decision

[AML67]

On 31/03/2020 at 21:29, Marshmallo said:

Three going down seems about right to me. The issue you have though is the SoS being ay tier 6 and producing champions miles off the level of the likes of Talbot or Bo'ness.

As has been stated many times during this topic you yet again assume that because the Juniors have finally and belatedly ( in some cases possibly reluctantly ) jumped on the bandwagon and have decided to join the Pyramid set up you somehow feel they can simply supersede and jump the queue in front of admittedly smaller Clubs who struggled for years to gain and keep meeting the License criteria against the odds in many cases ! These licensed teams in the South don’t have the financial muscle of your aforementioned Clubs and many , many others in the East and the new West but that doesn’t give anyone the right to overlook the incredible efforts from the respective teams trying to survive on average crowds and limited sponsorship in comparison and I for one as someone involved with such a Club feel they thoroughly deserve their opportunity to remain at Tier 6. What’s your real issue anyway because as you’re aware the chances of the SOSFL winners overcoming either the East or West in a play off are minimal at best if not borderline impossible but presumably you’d rather have multiple teams from the Central belt regions being given the opportunity to succeed at the expense of those that’s entire history lies in Senior football ? 

[Sancho Panza]

27 minutes ago, patriot1 said:

https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/spfl-pyramid-masterplan-agreed-juniors-21753119

Read all the way to the bottom.

Maybe someone who tuned into to Kilwinnings Q & A session this week could let us know what came out of it.

Kilwinning  confirmed on th e q&a. Pretty sure Bankies have not changed their minds,Not all clubs made it clear in their statements, time will tell.

[Pyramidic]

One of those disappearing reports from Adrossan and Saltcoats Herald:

Ayrshire junior clubs apply for path into the professional game

A HOST of Ayrshire Junior Football clubs have applied to be part of a new league with a pathway to the professional game.

Five clubs have confirmed their request to form part of the West of Scotland Football League (WoSFL) and enter a pyramid system.

The pyramid system could see Junior clubs enter the Lowland League, where they could follow in the footsteps of the likes of Edinburgh City and gain promotion to the SPFL.

The latest club to announce their application is Beith Juniors, who claimed it was ‘likely’ that all West Region teams will join new division.

On Monday, they confirmed in a statement that they felt applying to the WoSFL for the new season was the “only way forward”.

As football remains closed down due to coronavirus, clubs have still been busy at work behind the scenes to lay foundations for next season.

....................................

https://www.ardrossanherald.com/news/18352721.ayrshire-junior-clubs-apply-path-professional-game/