the rambler Posted March 25, 2020 Share Posted March 25, 2020 Option A will romp it. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ginaro Posted March 25, 2020 Share Posted March 25, 2020 19 hours ago, glensmad said: Yes, it was agreed in principle at the SJFA Management meeting last week, however it is the clubs who ultimately will have the final say at the AGM or an EGM. Remember that there are 70 junior teams outwith the West Region and only 63 teams in the West Region, so if the non-West teams don't vote for the changes then the idea would be scuppered. I do expect the changes to be approved, though. So far, 6 of the 70 have said they are leaving to join the EOS (presumably this means resigning from the SJFA like previous movers) and some others south of the Tay may also leave. That means the West could have a majority to vote through any changes. The statement says WOS league fixtures have priority, so when does a replay between a WOS and North Region team get played? Unless of course replays and two legged semis are scrapped. In which case you basically have two competitions which are converging in terms of number of teams competing and their rules. The Junior Cup will have around 125 and the SCC will have 133+ if all clubs move to the WOS. The question is, how many WOS applicants will want to keep their SJFA membership to play in the Junior Cup when there will be fewer clubs and no east clubs in the competition while the likelihood of loss-making trips away to Tayside/North teams increases? Already seen Kilwinning and presumably Clydebank say they're not playing. 5 hours ago, Marshmallo said: It's not a fallacy though is it? The Junior Cup is the best tournament in non-SPFL football aside from the senior Scottish Cup. Nothing wrong with retaining a link to the past as we move into the future. Get every team from tier 5 down into an all-in cup tournament and retain the Junior name and trophy. Retire the South Challenge Cup. Think we all want a non-league trophy, but IMO the ball is in the SJFA's court and they need to decide what to do with the Junior Cup. Because history and prestige can only last so long when its numbers are reducing and the SCC might overtake it in terms of clubs if everyone applies. Allow/invite non-members to take part, increase travel guarantees so clubs can go to/from the north without losing as much money. 4 hours ago, craigkillie said: I think Rob Roy will be the first ever team from East Dunbartonshire to play in a senior league. I think that would leave Argyll & Bute, Na h-Eileanan Siar (Western Isles), Shetland and Orkney as the only ones who have still never had a team in a senior league. Orkney play in the North Caledonian League. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
patriot1 Posted March 25, 2020 Share Posted March 25, 2020 5 minutes ago, Ginaro said: So far, 6 of the 70 have said they are leaving to join the EOS (presumably this means resigning from the SJFA like previous movers) and some others south of the Tay may also leave. That means the West could have a majority to vote through any changes. The statement says WOS league fixtures have priority, so when does a replay between a WOS and North Region team get played? Unless of course replays and two legged semis are scrapped. In which case you basically have two competitions which are converging in terms of number of teams competing and their rules. The Junior Cup will have around 125 and the SCC will have 133+ if all clubs move to the WOS. The question is, how many WOS applicants will want to keep their SJFA membership to play in the Junior Cup when there will be fewer clubs and no east clubs in the competition while the likelihood of loss-making trips away to Tayside/North teams increases? Already seen Kilwinning and presumably Clydebank say they're not playing. Think we all want a non-league trophy, but IMO the ball is in the SJFA's court and they need to decide what to do with the Junior Cup. Because history and prestige can only last so long when its numbers are reducing and the SCC might overtake it in terms of clubs if everyone applies. Allow/invite non-members to take part, increase travel guarantees so clubs can go to/from the north without losing as much money. Orkney play in the North Caledonian League. 8 out of 70 have applied to the EOS. I suspect they can't have resigned from the SJFA yet as the season hasn't officially finished so will they want/be allowed to keep their membership. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FairWeatherFan Posted March 25, 2020 Share Posted March 25, 2020 Just now, patriot1 said: 8 out of 70 have applied to the EOS. I suspect they can't have resigned from the SJFA yet as the season hasn't officially finished so will they want/be allowed to keep their membership. The EoS sides they want to play against are in the South Challenge Cup, Qualifying Cup, League Cup, King Cup and Alex Jack Cup. Where would they fit in the Junior Cup? If they do a Threave/Dalbeattie in the EoS and only play in the SCC and League Cup. Then they're giving up on competitions most of the clubs around them will be playing in, which impacts league scheduling and they would miss out on a chance of trophies they can actually win. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doonhamer1969 Posted March 25, 2020 Share Posted March 25, 2020 7 hours ago, Stag Nation said: But wasn't it also stated that the members would elect their own management committee? AIUI the new league will be independent, with help from - but not run by - the LL. If that's the case, surely they can make up their own minds about cups. I thought the case was that the LL will run it for the first year, then a new committee would be elected to run it. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
archieb Posted March 25, 2020 Share Posted March 25, 2020 2 minutes ago, Doonhamer1969 said: I thought the case was that the LL will run it for the first year, then a new committee would be elected to run it. My understanding is that the EoS & LL would do the admin but actual decisions would be made by the member clubs. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doonhamer1969 Posted March 25, 2020 Share Posted March 25, 2020 7 hours ago, Cameron Wilson said: If all or most of the west juniors join the WSOL, including presumably Bonyton and perhaps a couple of other SOS teams, any mileage in merging the SOS with the WSOL? Now would be the time to do it. If enough teams join It may be desirable to make WSOL bottom tiers regional, and that is where most SOS teams would end up anyway. It would make the play-offs to the LL a bit more balanced and fairer if nothing else. Just putting it out there. Get the WoS up and running first. That discussion is for another day . 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glensmad Posted March 25, 2020 Share Posted March 25, 2020 I'm speaking personally here, as we haven't discussed at Glencairn yet whether we wish to keep playing in the Scottish Junior Cup.I just don't see what the fuss is about keeping the SJC, and why it was so important. I also don't see where it could possibly be fitted into the calendar with the other competitions which would take priority over it.I may be proved wrong here, but I suspect that there has been a huge over-estimate of the clubs' love for the SJC, and several if not many may just not bother entering. 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lowland team Posted March 25, 2020 Share Posted March 25, 2020 1 hour ago, Stag Nation said: The WOSFL hasn't even been formed yet. How can you possibly know what the rules about board member re-election will be? Because thats how the LL eos shfl and the sos run within the pyramid.the wosfl when formed will run along the same line using the same rules. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theesel1994 Posted March 25, 2020 Share Posted March 25, 2020 I think the bigger clubs that think they will do well in the SCC may give it a miss as it will clutter up their season. The other ones may give it one last go. If it doesn't clutter things up too much as they have early exits they may continue in it. Once clubs get their SFA licence I think they'll stop so I can imagine a drop in numbers. Unless they do allow other clubs to compete. Who knows. Only time will tell. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Footballfirst Posted March 25, 2020 Share Posted March 25, 2020 (edited) For most of the smaller sides the main attraction of the SJC is the hope of drawing a big name at home and being able to attract a crowd well above their normal gate. Unless the club has a realistic expectation of making the last 16 or last 8, then it doesn't add much to a club's season. Edited March 25, 2020 by Footballfirst 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doonhamer1969 Posted March 25, 2020 Share Posted March 25, 2020 6 hours ago, gaz5 said: If those ties to the past come with an entry fee payable to the SJFA for the rights to run the competition and use the trophy it will never be an all in cup. There are, remember, a number of teams out there who went through a lot of abuse, threats etc after their move out of the juniors and more still who have never been junior and have been belittled almost constantly for a decade from that direction. Would, for example, Kelty or Clydebank want to pay money into the SJFA coffers just to play in the Junior Cup? Would Cumbernauld Colts, EK or BSC, the "boys clubs" want to? Only way you get an all in trophy for non league, which you're 100% right is the way to go, is for all sides to give up their "biggest" cup and start a new one. Use the trophy if you want, sure, but it can't be run by one association alone and that certainly can't be the one who has done their best over the last 10 years to alienate a fair percentage of the club's you'd want to enter it. Just my view. Spot on. Keep the Junior cup trophy, rename the competition, eg The Scottish FA Trophy 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glensmad Posted March 25, 2020 Share Posted March 25, 2020 Something else to consider with this "all in together" stuff that's being spun is that only teams who have expressed an interest in the new league will have received the criteria and application form. We were told at the meeting that "46 or 47" of the notifications of interest were from junior clubs (not necessarily all West Region though). Assuming that they were all West teams, though, that means that a quarter of the WRSJFA teams won't have received the criteria and application form, unless they have contacted George Fraser today to ask for it.I think it's far from certain that all 63 clubs will apply, but again I may be proved wrong. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ginaro Posted March 25, 2020 Share Posted March 25, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, patriot1 said: 8 out of 70 have applied to the EOS. I suspect they can't have resigned from the SJFA yet as the season hasn't officially finished so will they want/be allowed to keep their membership. I said 6 as that's those who have publicly announced they are leaving for the EOS, plus there's Luncarty and Newburgh rumoured in the EOS forum. Lochore's statement for example said they were resigning from the ERJFA at the end of the season. Makes you wonder how many would have kept their SJFA membership two seasons ago if they had the chance. Make the Junior Cup great again™ Edited March 25, 2020 by Ginaro 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theesel1994 Posted March 25, 2020 Share Posted March 25, 2020 4 minutes ago, glensmad said: Something else to consider with this "all in together" stuff that's being spun is that only teams who have expressed an interest in the new league will have received the criteria and application form. We were told at the meeting that "46 or 47" of the notifications of interest were from junior clubs (not necessarily all West Region though). Assuming that they were all West teams, though, that means that a quarter of the WRSJFA teams won't have received the criteria and application form, unless they have contacted George Fraser today to ask for it. I think it's far from certain that all 63 clubs will apply, but again I may be proved wrong. The West Region emailed all the clubs yesterday with the criteria and application forms. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bestsinceslicebread Posted March 25, 2020 Share Posted March 25, 2020 1 hour ago, archieb said: My understanding is that the EoS & LL would do the admin but actual decisions would be made by the member clubs. Seriously hope not, too much shitting, saving the grade attitude and less of progression attitude in a pyramid, hey will just vote in the guys from the junior association who have made a mess of the last two years 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glensmad Posted March 25, 2020 Share Posted March 25, 2020 The West Region emailed all the clubs yesterday with the criteria and application forms.Fair enough, I wasn't aware of that. Thanks. [emoji106] 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
patriot1 Posted March 25, 2020 Share Posted March 25, 2020 14 minutes ago, Ginaro said: I said 6 as that's those who have publicly announced they are leaving for the EOS, plus there's Luncarty and Newburgh rumoured in the EOS forum. Lochore's statement for example said they were resigning from the ERJFA at the end of the season. Makes you wonder how many would have kept their SJFA membership two seasons ago if they had the chance. Make the Junior Cup great again™ It's been confirmed by the EOS that there have been 8 applications so far but no names have been divulged. At the time Lochore made their statement they wouldn't have been aware of the option to retain their membership. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FairWeatherFan Posted March 25, 2020 Share Posted March 25, 2020 With no one knowing what 2020-21 will look like as a season due to the uncertainty over corona, the Junior Cup or any cup for that matter is a rather trivial matter at this point. A greater focus is going to be on sorting the WoSFL and even the EoSFL into more structured divisions on the field. Then for a lot of people keeping things ticking and applying for SFA membership off of it. The SJFA seem to want to conclude the 2019-20 Junior Cup with their semi finals draw. That may well roll over to the 2020-21 season so there might not be enough time to carry out a 2020-21 edition of the Junior Cup anway. By the time 2021-22 comes around you'll have a number of West of Scotland clubs licenced and that will limit their participation in the Junior Cup further even if they want to do it. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert James Posted March 25, 2020 Share Posted March 25, 2020 7 hours ago, amigan said: SFA Vase anyone? SFA VASE Yes for all clubs at Tiers 7, 8 and 9......to start in 2021/22, once the conferences have ended. Regional. until the quarter final stage SFA TROPHY For all clubs at tiers 5 & 6 only, also from 2021/22 Finals at Hampden, on the same day, with one ticket covering both games. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.