Junior football, what is the future?

[AlanCamelonfan]

2 hours ago, LongTimeLurker said:

Is it confirmed that newly entering EoS clubs could still play in the junior cup? That might just be for the west region.

I think it could be a negotiating tool 

[btw lads]

so west teams moving to new wosl would have a few prelim rounds in scottish cup, is it not 3 rounds currently to get to round 1 proper?

[EdinburghBlue]

It wasn't.
Until the recent demise of the Dumfries Amateur League, the SoS was almost exclusively Galloway teams, Dumfries(shire) teams are (mostly) a fairly recent addition.

And it’s has/had Ayrshire teams, and East Kilbride were (briefly) members.

[FairWeatherFan]

10 minutes ago, btw lads said:

so west teams moving to new wosl would have a few prelim rounds in scottish cup, is it not 3 rounds currently to get to round 1 proper?

There are two preliminary rounds. But the competition format is likely to change with increased SFA membership.

[AlanCamelonfan]

18 minutes ago, btw lads said:

so west teams moving to new wosl would have a few prelim rounds in scottish cup, is it not 3 rounds currently to get to round 1 proper?

You have to be licensed to play in the scottish cup. Not all these teams will be going for licensing

[jimbaxters]

Looks like a reasonable compromise. Are we all happy?

[cmontheloknow]

"Conferences? mump mump moan".

I guess not everyone will be, 'jimbaxters'!

[Marten]

8 hours ago, Doonhamer1969 said:

 So, in theory,any team could, eg (random former junior team) Dunbar , could (re) apply to the SJFA  to play in the JC.....?

If I understand this correctly, yes, I don't see why not. If clubs can be an SJFA member and play in a senior league it surely shouldn't just count for the teams now leaving the West Region for the WoSFL. So it should also apply to former East Juniors and West Lothian juniors if they move to the EOS. Whether or not any club that's currently senior will take that option is another issue...

[Guest]

Happy for the west clubs, even happier if the sjfa dont get their hands near anything to do with the pyramid or involved in running anything other than a regional cup.

I dont get why clubs would want to keep sjfa membership or play in the junior cup, it was never a big deal for me when I was playing, more of a distraction that held up you season and ensured you were going to play sat, mon, wed, sat, but it is what it is.

The whole what draws a bigger crowd argument also means little to me, it proves nothing about a competition in the grand scheme of things.

Good that the west clubs are being given a choice to join, concerned for those that dont apply, where do they play?

Anyway, it's good to see that there will be a west balance in the pyramid, also good to see conferences for year one so that clubs have a chance to progress forward, it really will be game on when football returns, no pressure but there will undoubtedly be surprises along the way.

[AlanCamelonfan]

9 minutes ago, jimbaxters said:

Looks like a reasonable compromise. Are we all happy?

Sounds good to me and should do the same with whitburn etc join eosfl but play in junior cup if they like

[Marten]

17 minutes ago, jimbaxters said:

Looks like a reasonable compromise. Are we all happy?

It's a fair enough compromise in my opinion, but you should know by now that on this thread it will never happen that everyone is happy.  

[Salvo Montalbano]

I find your lack of comprehension somewhat disturbing. Perhaps this isn’t the subject for you. [emoji23][emoji23]

Aye, to be fair I hadn't read the full thing properly. - I assumed they were still after the all-in solution while saying that clubs didn't have to apply, then someone else said that teams who didn't apply wouldn't be able to get promoted, making it appear that everyone would be in the new set up with some in a half-in, half-out position. I've read it properly now though and clearly they still aren't going for an official all-in or none-in position (although they seem to be lobbying every club to get them to join) so if there are any hold outs like the West Lothian clubs they'll be Juniors outside the pyramid. It'll be interesting to see if anyone wants to do that, or if the continued membership of the association and entry to the Junior Cup with sway them. If it does, will the SJFA extend that option to the West Lothian clubs and try to get them into the EoS League in the last season of conferences there?

[the rambler]

I posted earlier that I am not a fan of Conferences and should be merit based. However, the decision has been made. I have had a go at how Conferences might look, just to give an example. 

I took current Junior League positions and averaged points to the end of the full league season to determine seedings. This presumes there will be an even number from each League in each Conference, it would be unfair to have 6 Premier teams in one Conference and 2 in another. The seedings are in blocks of 4, 1 to 4, 5 to 8, 61 to 63 etc. I have presumed 63 Junior Clubs and 5 new entrants. I don't know who the new entrants are or their current level so have classed them as non Junior for now.

I manipulated 6 Ayrshire teams in each Conference and tried to have as many local derbies as possible but still within the seedings. 

Seed 1 Auchinleck, 2 Kilwinning, 3 Pollok, 4 Glenafton etc

Conference A

Auchinleck, Beith, Cumnock, Rob Roy, Cumbernauld, Kilsyth, Gartcairn, P'hill, Winton, Bellshill, Larkhall, Royal Albert, Ashfield, Thrn'wood, Saltcoats, Lugar, Non Junior

Conference B

Kilwinning, Kilbirnie, Largs, Benburb, Shotts, Dalry, St Rochs, Craigmark, Port Gla, Greenock, Maryhill, Wishaw, Johnstone B, Forth, St Ants, Ardeer, Non Junior

Conf C

Pollok, Meadow, Rossvale, Troon, Blantyre, Neilston, Arthurlie, Irv Vics, Shettleston, Perthshire, Girvan, EK, Muirkirk, Maybole, VOC, Non Junior, Non Junior

Conf D

Glenafton, Hurlford, Clbank, Glencairn, Darvel, Renfrew, Whitletts, Cambusl, Lanark, Lesmahagow, Carluke, Kello, VOL, Yoker, Newmains, Annbank, Non Junior

 

 

Edited March 25, 2020 by the rambler

[glensmad]

I posted earlier that I am not a fan of Conferences and should be merit based. However, the decision has been made. I have had a go at how Conferences might look, just to give an example. 
I took current Junior League positions and averaged points to the end of the full league season to determine seedings. This presumes there will be an even number from each League in each Conference, it would be unfair to have 6 Premier teams in one Conference and 2 in another. The seedings are in blocks of 4, 1 to 4, 5 to 8, 61 to 63 etc. I have presumed 63 Junior Clubs and 5 new entrants. I don't know who the new entrants are or their current level so have classed them as non Junior for now.
I manipulated 6 Ayrshire teams in each Conference and tried to have as many local derbies as possible but still within the seedings. 
Seed 1 Auchinleck, 2 Kilwinning, 3 Pollok, 4 Glenafton etc
Conference A
Auchinleck, Beith, Cumnock, Rob Roy, Cumbernauld, Kilsyth, Gartcairn, P'hill, Winton, Bellshill, Larkhall, Royal Albert, Ashfield, Thrn'wood, Saltcoats, Lugar, Non Junior
Conference B
Kilwinning, Kilbirnie, Largs, Benburb, Shotts, Dalry, St Rochs, Craigmark, Port Gla, Greenock, Maryhill, Wishaw, Johnstone B, Forth, St Ants, Ardeer, Non Junior
Conf C
Pollok, Meadow, Rossvale, Troon, Blantyre, Neilston, Arthurlie, Irv Vics, Shettleston, Perthshire, Girvan, EK, Muirkirk, Maybole, VOC, Non Junior, Non Junior
Conf D
Glenafton, Hurlford, Clbank, Glencairn, Darvel, Renfrew, Whitletts, Cambusl, Lanark, Lesmahagow, Carluke, Kello, VOL, Yoker, Newmains, Annbank, Non Junior
 
 

You should send that on to George Fraser, it'll save him the bother. [emoji6]

[AlanCamelonfan]

44 minutes ago, the rambler said:

I posted earlier that I am not a fan of Conferences and should be merit based. However, the decision has been made. I have had a go at how Conferences might look, just to give an example. 

I took current Junior League positions and averaged points to the end of the full league season to determine seedings. This presumes there will be an even number from each League in each Conference, it would be unfair to have 6 Premier teams in one Conference and 2 in another. The seedings are in blocks of 4, 1 to 4, 5 to 8, 61 to 63 etc. I have presumed 63 Junior Clubs and 5 new entrants. I don't know who the new entrants are or their current level so have classed them as non Junior for now.

I manipulated 6 Ayrshire teams in each Conference and tried to have as many local derbies as possible but still within the seedings. 

Seed 1 Auchinleck, 2 Kilwinning, 3 Pollok, 4 Glenafton etc

Conference A

Auchinleck, Beith, Cumnock, Rob Roy, Cumbernauld, Kilsyth, Gartcairn, P'hill, Winton, Bellshill, Larkhall, Royal Albert, Ashfield, Thrn'wood, Saltcoats, Lugar, Non Junior

Conference B

Kilwinning, Kilbirnie, Largs, Benburb, Shotts, Dalry, St Rochs, Craigmark, Port Gla, Greenock, Maryhill, Wishaw, Johnstone B, Forth, St Ants, Ardeer, Non Junior

Conf C

Pollok, Meadow, Rossvale, Troon, Blantyre, Neilston, Arthurlie, Irv Vics, Shettleston, Perthshire, Girvan, EK, Muirkirk, Maybole, VOC, Non Junior, Non Junior

Conf D

Glenafton, Hurlford, Clbank, Glencairn, Darvel, Renfrew, Whitletts, Cambusl, Lanark, Lesmahagow, Carluke, Kello, VOL, Yoker, Newmains, Annbank, Non Junior

 

 

That looks pretty decent in fairness

[Terry Singh]

I'm going to make a bold prediction here - all 63 West Region clubs WILL apply to the new West of Scotland League. The West Region will make sure of that.

Clubs should be provided with facts and then left to make their own decisions.

[GordonS]

1 hour ago, the rambler said:

I posted earlier that I am not a fan of Conferences and should be merit based. However, the decision has been made. I have had a go at how Conferences might look, just to give an example. 

I took current Junior League positions and averaged points to the end of the full league season to determine seedings. This presumes there will be an even number from each League in each Conference, it would be unfair to have 6 Premier teams in one Conference and 2 in another. The seedings are in blocks of 4, 1 to 4, 5 to 8, 61 to 63 etc. I have presumed 63 Junior Clubs and 5 new entrants. I don't know who the new entrants are or their current level so have classed them as non Junior for now.

I manipulated 6 Ayrshire teams in each Conference and tried to have as many local derbies as possible but still within the seedings. 

Seed 1 Auchinleck, 2 Kilwinning, 3 Pollok, 4 Glenafton etc

Conference A

Auchinleck, Beith, Cumnock, Rob Roy, Cumbernauld, Kilsyth, Gartcairn, P'hill, Winton, Bellshill, Larkhall, Royal Albert, Ashfield, Thrn'wood, Saltcoats, Lugar, Non Junior

Conference B

Kilwinning, Kilbirnie, Largs, Benburb, Shotts, Dalry, St Rochs, Craigmark, Port Gla, Greenock, Maryhill, Wishaw, Johnstone B, Forth, St Ants, Ardeer, Non Junior

Conf C

Pollok, Meadow, Rossvale, Troon, Blantyre, Neilston, Arthurlie, Irv Vics, Shettleston, Perthshire, Girvan, EK, Muirkirk, Maybole, VOC, Non Junior, Non Junior

Conf D

Glenafton, Hurlford, Clbank, Glencairn, Darvel, Renfrew, Whitletts, Cambusl, Lanark, Lesmahagow, Carluke, Kello, VOL, Yoker, Newmains, Annbank, Non Junior

 

 

Nice.

That's 17 clubs in each conference, so 32 matches? Might be a bit high when you remember that 1) there will be a play-off to pick a champion, which will mean 3 or 6 more matches and 2) the champion may enter a play-off with the winners of the SoS and EoS for promotion to the LL, which could be 2 or 4 more matches. And the WoSL leagues would need to finish at the same time as the EoS and SoS leagues, so you could be trying to play 35-38 games by the first week in May. All this in a season that may be shortened because of The Great Disease.

Might need to stay flexible on the format?

[Blackie Gold]

1 hour ago, the rambler said:

I posted earlier that I am not a fan of Conferences and should be merit based. However, the decision has been made. I have had a go at how Conferences might look, just to give an example. 

I took current Junior League positions and averaged points to the end of the full league season to determine seedings. This presumes there will be an even number from each League in each Conference, it would be unfair to have 6 Premier teams in one Conference and 2 in another. The seedings are in blocks of 4, 1 to 4, 5 to 8, 61 to 63 etc. I have presumed 63 Junior Clubs and 5 new entrants. I don't know who the new entrants are or their current level so have classed them as non Junior for now.

I manipulated 6 Ayrshire teams in each Conference and tried to have as many local derbies as possible but still within the seedings. 

Seed 1 Auchinleck, 2 Kilwinning, 3 Pollok, 4 Glenafton etc

Conference A

Auchinleck, Beith, Cumnock, Rob Roy, Cumbernauld, Kilsyth, Gartcairn, P'hill, Winton, Bellshill, Larkhall, Royal Albert, Ashfield, Thrn'wood, Saltcoats, Lugar, Non Junior

Conference B

Kilwinning, Kilbirnie, Largs, Benburb, Shotts, Dalry, St Rochs, Craigmark, Port Gla, Greenock, Maryhill, Wishaw, Johnstone B, Forth, St Ants, Ardeer, Non Junior

Conf C

Pollok, Meadow, Rossvale, Troon, Blantyre, Neilston, Arthurlie, Irv Vics, Shettleston, Perthshire, Girvan, EK, Muirkirk, Maybole, VOC, Non Junior, Non Junior

Conf D

Glenafton, Hurlford, Clbank, Glencairn, Darvel, Renfrew, Whitletts, Cambusl, Lanark, Lesmahagow, Carluke, Kello, VOL, Yoker, Newmains, Annbank, Non Junior

 

 

Oooft! Conf D looks a toughie, but all in it looks like a decent attempt. well done

[Lowland team]

35 minutes ago, Terry Singh said:

11 hours ago, theesel1994 said:

I'm going to make a bold prediction here - all 63 West Region clubs WILL apply to the new West of Scotland League. The West Region will make sure of that.

Clubs should be provided with facts and then left to make their own decisions.

Your absolutely right,its not a demand you must join the new wosl.clubs must be provided with the honest facts.then do their due diligence.then make up there own mind is it in their interests to join or stay.they should also remember like all the others its about the long term not the here and now.my club wanted to leave the eos i wished to stay.but if am honest playing in teir 5 has been a joy.

[surely not!]

Nice.
That's 17 clubs in each conference, so 32 matches? Might be a bit high when you remember that 1) there will be a play-off to pick a champion, which will mean 3 or 6 more matches and 2) the champion may enter a play-off with the winners of the SoS and EoS for promotion to the LL, which could be 2 or 4 more matches. And the WoSL leagues would need to finish at the same time as the EoS and SoS leagues, so you could be trying to play 35-38 games by the first week in May. All this in a season that may be shortened because of The Great Disease.
Might need to stay flexible on the format?

Overall champion could take as little as two extra matches - winner A v winner D in one semi and winner B v winner C in another. Then a final.

Or could take a round robin meaning three days - Saturday/Tuesday/Saturday.