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Junior football, what is the future?


Burnie_man

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3 minutes ago, Stag Nation said:

Anybody who bases a club’s business plan on winning a KO competition needs his head examined. Short-term, it’s very risky (see Rangers’ 2012 European failure and subsequent liquidation). Long-term, even more so.

They're not basing their business plan on it. And the Rangers example doesn't really work. The Whitburn/Fauldhouse/Armadale's of the world compete in the Junior Cup every year and there's no real financial benefits that sway their budgets in the same way as Rangers hoping to qualify for the CL.

They're also hoping that everyone else gets worse, rather than spending money they don't have to catch up. Look at the semi finals draw Talbot, Pollok, Beith, Hurlford and Darvel all potentially gone to a WoSFL in a year and no longer Junior.

An argument they might make is that going to Conferences and chasing licencing would be a greater financial risk. Which is why they would rather stay in a local league and spending money to keep things ticking over like they always have.

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12 minutes ago, G4Mac said:
23 minutes ago, FairWeatherFan said:
That defined operating structure still basically in place as the President, Vice-President, Secretary and Treasurer as still roles held by pre-2018 members. The 4 ex ersjfa club reps only account for 4/12 of the people on the committee.

I get that fair. My point is that I am filled with the fear if the current sjfa/wrsjfa pyramid may sayers are involved in any capacity.

I'm agreeing with you. Whatever handholding the LL might do in the first year they aren't going to hold important positions like President, Vice-President, Secretary and Treasurer long term. They're some of the most important people for the league and would hopefully begin representing the league on the Non-Professional Game Board and other committees to give voice to their members and work toward common goals with other leagues.

If people go in with the mentality that this is the West Region and the survival of Junior football just under a different name. Then the members could vote through the same people onto the committee that have held things up over the years. We're talking about a group of people that created the role of Fixture Secretary rather than vote in a new Secretary when the existing one could no longer do the job.

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the  office bearers of the west league  will be elected by  the members of the league ,if they decide to re-elect anyone it is their decision.

on another topic mentioned in this thread, I have long  wondered  about the legal position of  imposing a fine on amateur player who plays for nothing 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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On 14/03/2020 at 23:45, glensmad said:

Now here's a debating point, with the uncertainty over when or if our leagues will start again due to Coronavirus.

In the event of a successful outcome from the PWG meeting on 23rd March and agreement is reached for the four WRSJFA leagues to form the WoSFL under a new administration team with additional teams added if necessary, then would there be any need to actually finish this season ?

With the LL/EoSFL/SoSFL saying on Thursday night that their preference would be for tier 6 conferences in season 1, surely that would be the best thing to do and just write this season off.

There are so many discrepancies in the number of matches played, games in hand, imbalance of home and away games etc, that it's just impossible to fairly form the leagues from the current league positions.

If everyone is moving together, then why not just say this season is null and void and start the WoSFL afresh with everyone in seeded tier 6 conferences ?

One way round the games in hand/imbalance in home and away games issue is average points per game.

Its only going to affect things anyway if a decision has to be made on promotion/relegation places.

Otherwise, they move en masse in current divisions with no promotion/ relegation applied at the end of this season, ie ,effectively now.

Edited by Doonhamer1969
Typo
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One way round the games in hand/imbalance in home and away games issue is average points per game.
Its only going to affect things anyway if a decision has to be made on promotion/relegation places.
Otherwise, they move in masse in current divisions with no promotion/ relegation applied at the end if this season, ie ,effectively now.
The only thing with points per game is that some teams will have a higher points per game total having not played games against top of the table sides and some with a lower total will have played all the teams from the top. Fairest thing is to scrap the season and either finish it when we return or write it off completely.
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On 15/03/2020 at 17:32, glensmad said:
On 15/03/2020 at 16:23, Robert James said:
Well said Dev :  best contribution of the day.
And congratulations to Kilwinning, for setting an example. It hasn't been clear (to me) whether the SLL applications "window" is temporarily on hold, pending the meeting on the 23rd ?  Keep moving on.

No, the LL-WOSFL plan is proceeding as planned meantime.

Glad to hear it.

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Wit you want me to say about going back to the train, you were commenting on quite a few people and it started to come across as aggressive windup so anyone is going to feel the same way about you even later on when your comments are more reserved.  And no I didn't go back to any posts, no need, I just remember them.
Yes I know you never said it was me as I don't do that sort of thing, I'm more of taking  a person to task without insulting and I don't see me saying windup merchant as you were basically saying you were bored and wanted something to do.
If you have apologised for your earlier stuff then hopefully most whom you offended or annoyed have forgiven or forgot about it.
I state I have played and been involved most of my time in junior football inregards to I have a view that is not about the junior, keeping the grade alive, hstory alive etc.... So it has nothing to do with you or even that you have ever played in the grade or not played in the grade and you and everyone else have every right to comments on this thread and the whole of Pie and Bovril.

I am always calm, totally and try to be objective and break down my views so that people find it easy to understand the way that I see things as admittedly I sometimes force too much information on here which can be confusing even for me and I wrote it.
I'm not going any more on this as its typical of the way things get distracted from the important points of the post whether intentionally or unintentionally.
I've made my point and so have you 
I'm obviously not going to get the last word in so just a couple of lines before you come back with your usual lengthy statement. Don't believe I was aggressive. Perhaps a wee bit too assertive in my criticism of people making lots of assumptions with absolutely no evidence to back it up apart from the fact that they thought it. IMHO (God I'm doing it now) this is the worst thing about social media. Potentially libelous statements from anonymous posters. I see you mention again your an ex player. Surely you, heard much worse than my so called aggression from the sidelines at many Junior game. I think I'm pretty typical of most Junior fans who pay £6 every week plus my season ticket so a wee bit disappointed getting pelters from an ex player. Maybe I only said nice, things about you when you played. Anyway look I've gone well over my couple of lines so apologies for using up so much space. Let's hope we get to, see a ball kicked sooner rather than later.

Sent from my PRA-LX1 using Pie and Bovril mobile app

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45 minutes ago, G4Mac said:
51 minutes ago, Doonhamer1969 said:
One way round the games in hand/imbalance in home and away games issue is average points per game.
Its only going to affect things anyway if a decision has to be made on promotion/relegation places.
Otherwise, they move in masse in current divisions with no promotion/ relegation applied at the end if this season, ie ,effectively now.

The only thing with points per game is that some teams will have a higher points per game total having not played games against top of the table sides and some with a lower total will have played all the teams from the top. Fairest thing is to scrap the season and either finish it when we return or write it off completely.

As I posted on another thread:

Depending on when (if ever) things get back to something approaching normal, you could:

(1) Play out the rest of season 2019-20 to a finish

(2) Play a shortened half-season League programme till April 2021 (by e.g, splitting each 16-team division in the West Region either top & bottom or by seeding into 2 x 8-team Conferences)

(3) Start afresh for 2021-22

There are many other possibilities of course.

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4 hours ago, Mystic Blastie said:

All I'm saying is that the titles Senior and Junior came about because of the 2 separate levels of football created whenever. So if they all come under one banner now there is no reason for any reference to Senior or Junior football. How that makes me a pesky Joonyur rebel rouser I have no idea. I will say it again. I am 100% behind the Pyramid and want all Junior clubs from all over Scotland to be part of it if they wish. I don't care either way if the SJFA exists afterwards or not. I totally disagree with the personal abuse bandied about on here whether it is directed at SJFA, LL or SFA personnel. What is so bad about that?

Sent from my PRA-LX1 using Pie and Bovril mobile app
 

Not sure that you are entirely  correct in this. 

 I have a recollection of reading somewhere that in the earliest days of football, when there were no leagues and matches were basically friendlies or annual 'challenge competitions', the earlier established clubs (most of whom disappeared  long ago) preferred to play annual matches against each other (for various reasons including financial) rather than play against  'newer' poorly supported clubs.   Else they fielded second or third string sides when they did play them) ( a bit like modern rugby) and that the term 'junior' was coined  by the printed press as a sort of  'catch all' term  to describe the 'newer' clubs and  possibly slowly over time applied to the  'smaller' old  clubs (many of whom were being left behind by the rapid growth of the big city /large town club with greater supports and which were a better financial proposition in terms of away support. 

Presumably when the SJFA was founded and the Junior Cup competition established, it was a deliberate use of the term 'Junior' at that point in time in order to clearly differentiate themselves as being something 'different' - a sort of early marketing ploy.   

Presumably also as a result of this if you weren't 'junior' then by exception you must have been 'senior'.   When Leagues started the differentiation would have been continued. 

Perhaps some of the many learned football historians out there can help with this. 

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7 hours ago, Bestsinceslicebread said:

With Honestly United post made me think.
How many cups in general do the clubs compete in
The SOS league, The EOS league
The Lowland League
The Highland league and which ones interconnect ?

Also regarding the south challenge cup do teams in the lowland participate in the South Challenge as well as the Main Scottish cup

In the South there is the Potts / Tweedie / Haig Gordon and Cree Lodge ( all local Cups ) then the League Cup , Alba Cup ( for non SFA members ) , Challenge Cup and South Region Challenge Cup ( open to LL / East and South ) then obviously the Licensed Clubs enter the Scottish Cup. The 4 local Cups had been played on a biannual basis ( 2 each Season ) in  recent years but all were reinstated to the calendar this year as fewer games had been cancelled and reducing fixture back logs then  Annan and now YMCA have dropped out creating some extra space for theses additional Cup fixtures ! 

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7 hours ago, FairWeatherFan said:

Lowland: Scottish Cup, SCC, LL cup (+some other regional cups depending on members. Qualifying Cup, Southern Counties, Fife FA. Also top 4 compete in SPFL Challenge Cup and League champion/relegated Club 42 enter SPFL League Cup)

EoS: Scottish Cup for licence holders/Alex Jack Cup for unlicenced, SCC, Qualifying Cup (some qualify to the City Cup), League Cup, non-Premier  teams in the King Cup. (+ for some Fife Cup.

SoS: Scottish Cup for licence holders/ Alba Cup for unlicenced. SCC, Southern Counties, League Cup, then there's Potts, Tweedie & Cree lodge cups but aren't contested every year necessarily.

Highland: Scottish Cup, League Cup then the North of Scotland Cup for those North of Scotland and the Aberdeenshire Cup & Aberdeenshire Shield for those in the Grampian area.

Add the Haig Gordon for the South and they are all played again now , started this season 

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2 hours ago, cmontheloknow said:

I feel Pete Smyth's valediction worth sharing (from fb)

 

image.thumb.png.65a2ff6aa114c50a5cf5308609dee87f.png

 

Who is that zoomer? He's not voting for independence because the Scottish Government aren't getting involved in non-league Scottish football???

Right, that's me no' votin' for the Lib Dems cos they did nothing to get The Wire on cooncil telly.

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47 minutes ago, AML67 said:

 Believe it’s the oldest in the South ( I could be wrong ) 

Going by the list of winners on the South of Scotland League website, the oldest cup would appear to be the Southern Counties Challenge Cup dating back to 1891-92. With the Tweedie Cup in second place with a 1898-99 start date. The Haig Gordon Cup is credited as first won in 1964-65.

 

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2 minutes ago, GordonS said:

Who is that zoomer? He's not voting for independence because the Scottish Government aren't getting involved in non-league Scottish football???

Right, that's me no' votin' for the Lib Dems cos they did nothing to get The Wire on cooncil telly.

He's been around for years. You'll also notice he pops up on P&B from time to time. You can tell from the writing style.

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Who is that zoomer? He's not voting for independence because the Scottish Government aren't getting involved in non-league Scottish football???
Right, that's me no' votin' for the Lib Dems cos they did nothing to get The Wire on cooncil telly.
[Pedant] The Wire was shown on BBC2 [/Pedant] [emoji6]
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