Dev Posted March 14, 2020 Share Posted March 14, 2020 3 hours ago, cmontheloknow said: I am not really seeing a divide. Clubs by the sounds of it (going by Struthers' post) will have to enter the SCC (good!) and can opt into the SJC if they so choose. It should not be one or other. Sorry about the Red Dot but this issue is so Important to get right here and now. Any chances of future divisions within the pyramid need to be stopped at this stage. I believe that what you are OK with on this particular aspect has potential to cause problems in the future. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 14, 2020 Share Posted March 14, 2020 Sorry about the Red Dot but this issue is so Important to get right here and now. Any chances of future divisions within the pyramid need to be stopped at this stage. I believe that what you are OK with on this particular aspect has potential to cause problems in the future.I concur 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
james666 Posted March 14, 2020 Share Posted March 14, 2020 1 hour ago, Jack Burton said: ICT and Ross County Still play in some of the Highland cups they just put out their u21 or reserves. Celtic and Rangers still play in the Glasgow cup playing their u21. If retaining the Junior cup gets everyone on board then don't see what the issue with keeping it going is. It will probably fade away as clubs progress up the pyramid and up getting scrapped anyway or have the same relevance as the Glasgow cup or other regional cups. Caley and county play in the north of Scotland cup as they are members of the North of Scotland fa. Aberdeen, Cove, Peterhead are eligible for the Aberdeenshire cup and shield as they are Aberdeen fa affiliated. Surely there are FA's in the West region that would take the clubs and they would be eligible for those competitions. That leaves the Junior cup for North, East and any remnants of the west. Yes it will be devalued but I'll bet that teams will want to win it as they would any other competition. Would adding the Junior cup onto the calendar for non league clubs not cause a bit of fixture congestion? Especially in the Highland area. Look at Orkney, scheduled to play 2 games at the same time this weekend, Fort William have something like 9 games in hand. Once the west is incorporated into the pyramid, it's going to have it's own league cup, as the EOS and SOS do, south challenge cup, plus an other such as an Alba cup type competition where the winner plays for a Scottish cup spot in the S.E. shield. Where is the space for junior cup too? Unless reserve teams were played.... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sergeant Wilson Posted March 14, 2020 Share Posted March 14, 2020 1 hour ago, G4Mac said: 1 hour ago, Dev said: Is this what is being proposed? Why would this happen as the SJFA or any successor wouldn't be running any pyramid leagues. …. or is this a sneaky way to get Tier 6 leagues e.g. north, Tayside, east, run by what is still, effectively, the SJFA? I hope no one under estimates the sneakiness of the sjfa...... I don't doubt it, but they got exposed as a bit thick over the last couple of years. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
james666 Posted March 14, 2020 Share Posted March 14, 2020 2 minutes ago, gogsy said: Throw in the fact there may be 20-30 West Region clubs in the big Scottish over the next few years Exactly. No space for it. Leave it behind for remaining juniors to play for. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
STRUTHERS Posted March 14, 2020 Share Posted March 14, 2020 At this moment they still have a licence and I believe are in dialogue with the SFA regarding retaining it. They wouldn't get in without floodlights. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LongTimeLurker Posted March 14, 2020 Share Posted March 14, 2020 (edited) 24 minutes ago, james666 said: ...Once the west is incorporated into the pyramid, it's going to have it's own league cup, as the EOS and SOS do, south challenge cup, plus an other such as an Alba cup type competition where the winner plays for a Scottish cup spot in the S.E. shield... EoSFL teams seem to be able to manage playing in the League and Alex Jack cups as well as the Football Nations, King/Scottish and South Challenge cups while also having a 30 or 34 game league season. Of these only the SCC seems to be a given at this point for the new WoS clubs so they have plenty of possibilities on what else to jettison for fitting in the Junior Cup. Participation in a King Cup equivalent would give the unlicensed WoS clubs an extra pathway into the Scottish Cup, so making that either/or but not both with the Junior Cup would probably be a good trade off as things currently stand. If people would prefer that the Junior Cup were not part of the equation moving forward that's fair enough, but it's not valid to pretend that it couldn't be done. Edited March 14, 2020 by LongTimeLurker 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerry Macguire Posted March 14, 2020 Share Posted March 14, 2020 8 hours ago, patriot1 said: Completely agree. It seems that until after the 23rd we're not going to know the exact nature of the compromise but for me there can't be a junior/senior divide. And there should only be one national league trophy. If there is a Challenge Cup and Junior Cup then I want Saints playing in the Challenge not the Junior. As soon as it looks like we have clarity going forward we have to complicate things again. Typical of Scottish football. Your confusing the issue. This is about the WOSFL not cup competitions. Application to the league are being accepted up until the 31st. You can wait until after the next PWG on the 23rd if you want but nothing changes. The WoSFL is happening. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
patriot1 Posted March 14, 2020 Share Posted March 14, 2020 15 minutes ago, Jerry Macguire said: Your confusing the issue. This is about the WOSFL not cup competitions. Application to the league are being accepted up until the 31st. You can wait until after the next PWG on the 23rd if you want but nothing changes. The WoSFL is happening. I'm not sure what you mean. As far as I can see this "compromise" is going to lead to all the West region teams moving to the WOSFL so there won't be any need for applications. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerry Macguire Posted March 14, 2020 Share Posted March 14, 2020 Just now, patriot1 said: I'm not sure what you mean. As far as I can see this "compromise" is going to lead to all the West region teams moving to the WOSFL so there won't be any need for applications. Who mentioned compromising? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
STRUTHERS Posted March 14, 2020 Share Posted March 14, 2020 That may be the issue as I think there's a deadline to meet I asked the question on the Girvan thread a few weeks ago, someone said they were confident of getting lights by the summer. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FairWeatherFan Posted March 14, 2020 Share Posted March 14, 2020 13 minutes ago, LongTimeLurker said: EoSFL teams seem to be able to manage playing in the League and Alex Jack cups as well as the Football Nations, King/Scottish and South Challenge cups while also having a 30 or 34 game league season. Of these only the SCC seems to be a given at this point for the new WoS clubs so they have plenty of possibilities on what else to jettison for fitting in the Junior Cup. Participation in a King Cup equivalent would give the unlicensed WoS clubs an extra pathway into the Scottish Cup, so making that either/or but not both with the Junior Cup would probably be a good trade off as things currently stand. If people would prefer that the Junior Cup were not part of the equation moving forward that's fair enough, but it's not valid to pretend that it couldn't be done. Can it be done. Probably, especially in the first year when you can use the same dates that would otherwise be used for the Scottish Cup. Then clubs become licenced and start playing in the SFA Scottish Cup the following season. Main EoS Competitions Scottish Cup or Alex Jack Cup South Region Challenge Cup (70 clubs = 7 rounds) East of Scotland Qualifying Cup (50 clubs = 6 rounds) East of Scotland League Cup (40 clubs = 6 rounds) EoS First Division and below only King Cup (24 clubs = 5 Rounds) With the addition of 63+ clubs into the South Region Challenge Cup that would expand that competition to 8 rounds. If the WoSFL want to take on the Junior Cup instead of having both a West of Scotland Cup & WoSFL League Cup that's fine. Keep in mind on dates it will probably have to play third fiddle, the SFA Scottish Cup and South Challenge Cup since those would be the primary competitions when setting the season calendar. It would also presumably leave the WoSFL with just the leagues and a single cup to generate revenue for itself. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmontheloknow Posted March 14, 2020 Share Posted March 14, 2020 8 minutes ago, Jerry Macguire said: Who mentioned compromising? Well the WR asked for this: and poster Struthers reported this from Thursday: 1. There will be a new WoSFL next season constituted under LL rules. (EOS/SOS model) . 2. The Primary competitions will be the League and the South Cup. 3. Unless there are Junior teams that don't want to join, there will be no further need for a WRJFA as they will have no disciplinary matters or leagues within their jurisdiction. New committee will be formed to run the new WOSL. 5. The SJFA constitution will need to be amended to allow senior players to take part in the SC and the rule compelling clubs in membership to take part in one of its leagues. 6. SFA LL EOSL SOSL have the veto to the change in playoff rules to the LL. 7. IM email does carry some weight but don't think it's a silver bullet but it was referenced. 8. The two options will not be put to a vote at the SFA AGM. This is the only show in town for pyramid entry in the west. The main arguments from Tuesdays meeting were debunked Cherry Picking - Won't happen. Being omitted due to ground conditions--won't happen clubs will be given leeway to comply. Mood seemed conciliatory between GR & GF and clearly there are still tensions and details to be ironed out, but both parties seem to be focused and willing to get it done. while the LL had the following to say about the partial PWG: Update following the Pyramid Working Group Meeting Following talks at yesterdays PWG meeting between the SLFL, EoSFL, SosFL, and the WRJFA some common ground was found to enable the talks to continue on Monday 23rd March. We hope these talks will be as equally productive, and look forward to updating everyone at their conclusion. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerry Macguire Posted March 14, 2020 Share Posted March 14, 2020 3 minutes ago, cmontheloknow said: Well the WR asked for this: and poster Struthers reported this from Thursday: What this fails to acknowledge is the WRJFA will not run this. So who will? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
morley Posted March 14, 2020 Share Posted March 14, 2020 I have only looked back a few pages on the thread for today, so apologies if this point has been made already earlier. But am I right the proposal appears to be what is now the West junior league will more than just rebrand itself, but will fully move to become the wosl under the LL and be a brand new league organisation. It will sit as a senior league in the pyramid and therefore its clubs considered senior. However clubs in this new WoS league would if they want be able to continue to also be considered a senior club but also be members of the sjfa and therefore take part in the sjfa Cup. But there is no prerequest which says if in the WoS you have to be in the sjfa either as an x junior or new club which joins. Which is exactly the same as we already have with senior clubs from Fife for example who are in the senior league across the pyramid from spfl down to EOS, but are also members of the Fife Fa if they want but don't have to be, and so take part if the Fife Fa Cup if a member. Which I understand is the same as senior clubs from Glasgow who can if they want be members of the Glasgow FA and so take part in the Glasgow Cup, and likewise senior clubs from Aberdeenshire who can be part if they want of the Aberdeenshire fa and so take part in the Aberdeen Cup, and senior Lothian clubs as member of the EoS fa who can if they want take part in the EoS fa Cup although the big clubs don't usually. So the sjfa will in effect be considered the same as these regional football associations. Apologies if I got any of the organisation and cup names wrong but you hopefully get my drift. Is that the compromise being proposed? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerry Macguire Posted March 14, 2020 Share Posted March 14, 2020 7 minutes ago, morley said: I have only looked back a few pages on the thread for today, so apologies if this point has been made already earlier. But am I right the proposal appears to be what is now the West junior league will more than just rebrand itself, but will fully move to become the wosl under the LL and be a brand new league organisation. It will sit as a senior league in the pyramid and therefore its clubs considered senior. However clubs in this new WoS league would if they want be able to continue to also be considered a senior club but also be members of the sjfa and therefore take part in the sjfa Cup. But there is no prerequest which says if in the WoS you have to be in the sjfa either as an x junior or new club which joins. Which is exactly the same as we already have with senior clubs from Fife for example who are in the senior league across the pyramid from spfl down to EOS, but are also members of the Fife Fa if they want but don't have to be, and so take part if the Fife Fa Cup if a member. Which I understand is the same as senior clubs from Glasgow who can if they want be members of the Glasgow FA and so take part in the Glasgow Cup, and likewise senior clubs from Aberdeenshire who can be part if they want of the Aberdeenshire fa and so take part in the Aberdeen Cup, and senior Lothian clubs as member of the EoS fa who can if they want take part in the EoS fa Cup although the big clubs don't usually. So the sjfa will in effect be considered the same as these regional football associations. Apologies if I got any of the organisation and cup names wrong but you hopefully get my drift. Is that the compromise being proposed? Correct 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmontheloknow Posted March 14, 2020 Share Posted March 14, 2020 3 minutes ago, Jerry Macguire said: Correct so why ask 'who mentioned compromising?' if you know what the compromise is? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerry Macguire Posted March 14, 2020 Share Posted March 14, 2020 4 minutes ago, cmontheloknow said: so why ask 'who mentioned compromising?' if you know what the compromise is? As far as I'm aware no compromise exists. Only agreement. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Informer Posted March 14, 2020 Share Posted March 14, 2020 18 minutes ago, Jerry Macguire said: What this fails to acknowledge is the WRJFA will not run this. So who will? A completely new entity, not the WRJFA 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmontheloknow Posted March 14, 2020 Share Posted March 14, 2020 4 minutes ago, gogsy said: You cant simply become a member of the Fife FA just because you want to be, its restricted to SFA license holders only. Such restrictions do not apply to all 'affiliated associations' though - Southern Counties to name one. (p40) https://www.scottishfa.co.uk/media/5422/scottish-fa-handbook-2019-20.pdf 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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