santheman Posted March 14, 2020 Share Posted March 14, 2020 23 minutes ago, GNU_Linux said: 34 minutes ago, Shannon said: Letting West teams join the pyramid as one but stay members of Junior FA and play Junior Cup would keep almost every single supporter and committee member of a West Region Junior team happy while enabling clubs who wish to join the pyramid to do so and progress. The Junior Cup has a rich and long history and if we can keep this and encourage more teams instead of fewer teams to participate and make it the premier non league cup trophy then great. The South Challenge Cup won't bring out the crowds, just ask Linlithgow them along with others would enjoy to be back in Scottish Junior Cup to make it the premier non league cup competition but league will take preference which is what we want. Will be tough to fit in with South Challenge Cup too but I am sure teams know that may have to opt out of one of regional cups if wish to play in Junior Cup but 1-6 games could be fitted in most seasons apart from this season with awful wet weather and Coronavirus. Meadow for instance last season were done by early April / end of March and could have been even earlier. Seems positive discussions and both parties are making great moves towards a sensible way forward for tier 6 and below. Both sides have made concessions. If plans don't fall into place then with all clubs leaving as one will leave clubs with a week or less to make a big decision so clubs will need a back up plan too if SJFA don't want this. The only problem I see is Tayside so it is quite right West Region goes it alone and takes them out equation as they really can't do anything about that and North are already moving towards potential pyramid entry for licensed clubs who win league / play offs in NCL / North Region. Was wondering if TJ et al had been consulted yet so that answers one of many questions. Be very interesting to see how the SJFA respond when proposals are tabled to them. The SJFA will do what the clubs tell them to do whether that is at an EGM or an AGM. TJ is a Sectretary not a CEO who has decision making powers 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GordonS Posted March 14, 2020 Share Posted March 14, 2020 Nope. Red line. A fully independent WoSFL is the way forward, the LL can set this up and invite applications and it will happen. This is a very uneccesary distraction to moving forward. EDIT: when do the ERJFA and NRJFA get a say in all of this?Red line for you maybe, but for me it's a completely acceptable compromise to unify non-league football. And clearly it's widely acceptable to clubs in both sides too.On the cups, I'm happy to go with both the Junior Cup and the South Challenge, at least for now. The Junior Cup will effectively start at T6 and below, while the SCC is T5 and below. My preference is for these to amalgamate but it's not worth delaying the union of the clans. Let's get it done and sort out cups later, once everyone is under the same umbrella. Let's not allow the perfect to be the enemy of the good. 14 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theesel1994 Posted March 14, 2020 Share Posted March 14, 2020 30 minutes ago, FairWeatherFan said: If West clubs get to keep playing in the Junior Cup why wouldn't the East teams if they wanted. As soon as you say teams can keep junior membership but not play in a junior league, there's nothing to stop East teams doing the same. The ones have all used the word resigned in their statements. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shannon Posted March 14, 2020 Share Posted March 14, 2020 The ones have all used the word resigned in their statements.I am sure Scottish Junior Football Association would not turn away any East teams who may want to become associate members like Girvan are with SFA and they will play in Junior Cup and get their annual membership fee plus have more clubs in their premier competition. The East teams would still be in the pyramid and East of Scotland League members but also members of SJFA to play in Scottish Junior Cup too. The Scottish Junior Cup does have much more prestige and fan pulling power than South Challenge Cup even for East teams who would like to be associate members and let this become a top non league cup trophy once again. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shannon Posted March 14, 2020 Share Posted March 14, 2020 With no senior football to talk for a few weeks about maybe a sports journalist will do a decent well.researched article on the pyramid in Scotland or is that too much to ask [emoji848]...... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tutankhamen Posted March 14, 2020 Share Posted March 14, 2020 1 hour ago, Shannon said: With no senior football to talk for a few weeks about maybe a sports journalist will do a decent well.researched article on the pyramid in Scotland or is that too much to ask ...... Depends a lot on whether Talbot can be arsed working with said journalist. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Pennel Posted March 14, 2020 Share Posted March 14, 2020 What would the headline be, Toots ? "Compromise Reached" !! "BurnieMan in big huff" !! "Gogsy Aghast" !! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Che Dail Posted March 14, 2020 Share Posted March 14, 2020 3 hours ago, GordonS said: Red line for you maybe, but for me it's a completely acceptable compromise to unify non-league football. And clearly it's widely acceptable to clubs in both sides too. On the cups, I'm happy to go with both the Junior Cup and the South Challenge, at least for now. The Junior Cup will effectively start at T6 and below, while the SCC is T5 and below. Could the Junior Cup be for T6 only? Reduces the overall numbers and omits early rounds making fixture management easier. There might be ways to allow more in, e.g. lower league cup winners and finalists; T6 relegated sides; top 3 T7 league finish. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FairWeatherFan Posted March 14, 2020 Share Posted March 14, 2020 5 hours ago, theesel1994 said: The ones have all used the word resigned in their statements. Except they've not actually resigned because they've not actually been accepted anywhere else. All it is is a statement. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshmallo Posted March 14, 2020 Share Posted March 14, 2020 Anyone who is against the plan which has been outlined is more interested in an ideological war rather than the greater good. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danshoo Posted March 14, 2020 Share Posted March 14, 2020 Why not scrap the south challenge Cup and have the junior Cup for all. It's got the history and pedigree so make it the best comp, get the final in hampden etc 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert James Posted March 14, 2020 Share Posted March 14, 2020 7 hours ago, GNU_Linux said: 7 hours ago, Shannon said: Letting West teams join the pyramid as one but stay members of Junior FA and play Junior Cup would keep almost every single supporter and committee member of a West Region Junior team happy while enabling clubs who wish to join the pyramid to do so and progress. The Junior Cup has a rich and long history and if we can keep this and encourage more teams instead of fewer teams to participate and make it the premier non league cup trophy then great. The South Challenge Cup won't bring out the crowds, just ask Linlithgow them along with others would enjoy to be back in Scottish Junior Cup to make it the premier non league cup competition but league will take preference which is what we want. Will be tough to fit in with South Challenge Cup too but I am sure teams know that may have to opt out of one of regional cups if wish to play in Junior Cup but 1-6 games could be fitted in most seasons apart from this season with awful wet weather and Coronavirus. Meadow for instance last season were done by early April / end of March and could have been even earlier. Seems positive discussions and both parties are making great moves towards a sensible way forward for tier 6 and below. Both sides have made concessions. If plans don't fall into place then with all clubs leaving as one will leave clubs with a week or less to make a big decision so clubs will need a back up plan too if SJFA don't want this. The only problem I see is Tayside so it is quite right West Region goes it alone and takes them out equation as they really can't do anything about that and North are already moving towards potential pyramid entry for licensed clubs who win league / play offs in NCL / North Region. Was wondering if TJ et al had been consulted yet so that answers one of many questions. Be very interesting to see how the SJFA respond when proposals are tabled to them. Does anyone seriously believe that TJ is not fully aware of this 'compromise' ? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the rambler Posted March 14, 2020 Share Posted March 14, 2020 I think the West Juniors need to get their feet in the door first. But as many have said on here the Scottish Cup has been devalued since the East Juniors left for the EoS. An all in non-league Scottish Cup will hopefully be considered going forward. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marten Posted March 14, 2020 Share Posted March 14, 2020 7 hours ago, GordonS said: Red line for you maybe, but for me it's a completely acceptable compromise to unify non-league football. And clearly it's widely acceptable to clubs in both sides too. On the cups, I'm happy to go with both the Junior Cup and the South Challenge, at least for now. The Junior Cup will effectively start at T6 and below, while the SCC is T5 and below. My preference is for these to amalgamate but it's not worth delaying the union of the clans. Let's get it done and sort out cups later, once everyone is under the same umbrella. Let's not allow the perfect to be the enemy of the good. This! Ultimately, I want all clubs in 1 structure and 1 big "non-league" cup, whatever the name of that cup might be. This seems to me a decent compromise to get things over the line. This compromise could also as a knock-on effect make the West Lothian juniors join the EOS if they feel they can stay junior while doing so. I'm convinced that the junior/senior dividing line will start to disappear sooner rather than later when junior & senior clubs start playing each other more regularly. If we go with this compromise now, it will probably only be a matter of a few years before all clubs play in the same cup and we'll have a unified system. How it will officially be called is really not important as long as it happens. 8 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
parsforlife Posted March 14, 2020 Share Posted March 14, 2020 This reminds me of the SFL/SPL merger. For a long time it looked like it would never happen and there was talk that if it did expensive ground standards would become a requirement in the lower leagues as well(mainly championship/division 1) It was only when a significant amount of the bigger sides agreed that if it wasn’t going to happen they leave the SFL and join the SPL(as SPL2). After that and a long debate overall the lower league clubs decided to join en mass rather than be left out in the cold. The SFL was the wound up and the SPL rebranded/changed voting structures etc with 30 new members. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the rambler Posted March 14, 2020 Share Posted March 14, 2020 (edited) If the compromise proposal goes ahead I wonder if Kilwinning Rangers and Clydebank will still resign from the SJFA. Current benefits would be Junior Cup entry and a Share of £500k. If the fund is shared around Clubs as a Corona virus hardship fund and in future an all in Scottish Cup is proposed run by the LL. What would future benefit be? Edited March 14, 2020 by the rambler 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jacksgranda Posted March 14, 2020 Share Posted March 14, 2020 10 hours ago, the rambler said: West Region Juniors join WOSFL en masse. May not need to submit application. SJFA membership is retained as is entry to Scottish Cup. (East Juniors should have the option to re-join SJFA if they wish to participate in Scottish Cup). WOSFL rules apply, no reinstatement or player fines, or permits for friendlies or limits on squad sizes etc League fixtures take precedence, Scottish Cup will be fitted in. Possible changes to replays and 2 legged semi finals. Win, win for everyone if this goes ahead. Well done Gordon Ronney and LL for hopefully making this happen. That seems a total mess, but if that's what's agreed, so be it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 14, 2020 Share Posted March 14, 2020 Why not scrap the south challenge Cup and have the junior Cup for all. It's got the history and pedigree so make it the best comp, get the final in hampden etc Because the south challenge cup is a cup that will include sides from tier 5 and has just as much history to those that have participated in it over the years. The junior cup isnt the holy grail cup that everyone thinks it is. I'd rather my club stayed in the south challenge cup than play in the junior cup.On the west coming in, I have said all along that this was an open goal, hopefully the wrsjfa have been able to do what the sjfa havent been able to and they come on board.The thing that scares me is mr TJ or the sjfa having anything to do with running it or it being linked in any way to the sjfa (retaining junior membership inclusive). If you are playing in the pyramid you are effectively a senior club, sure keep the junior tag in your name, but I doubt see how you can retain junior membership and what that looks like for a clubs, say bsc or cumbernauld colts who are relegated, do they have to then apply for membership etc?To keep sjfa membership and the junior cup, whilst they are compromises to get the ball rolling, would only muddy the waters from the off for me. They would be held in as much esteem in 2 years when negotiated away as they are now, so what is to stop the office bearers refusing to get rid in 2 years if they arent willing to now? It seems that the LL and other leagues are and have always been the ones to compromise, what are the wrsjfa compromising with other than losing fines and reinstatement? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jacksgranda Posted March 14, 2020 Share Posted March 14, 2020 10 hours ago, Burnie_man said: Nope. Red line. A fully independent WoSFL is the way forward, the LL can set this up and invite applications and it will happen. This is a very uneccesary distraction to moving forward. EDIT: when do the ERJFA and NRJFA get a say in all of this? The NRJFA are biding their time until they are the only juniors left and then one of them will win the Junior Cup. NAP 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyclizine Posted March 14, 2020 Share Posted March 14, 2020 8 minutes ago, Jacksgranda said: The NRJFA are biding their time until they are the only juniors left and then Banks o' Dee will win the Junior Cup. NAP FTFY 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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