Doonhamer1969 Posted March 10, 2020 Share Posted March 10, 2020 2 minutes ago, San Starko Rover said: In theory they can join the EOSFL but then couldn't be promoted. I believe the EOSFL turned down a North of Tay application as they said it was not their area. Cheers. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmontheloknow Posted March 10, 2020 Share Posted March 10, 2020 15 minutes ago, Doonhamer1969 said: Have Newburgh made an announcement ? And you think they'll stay South region if they stay Junior? They'll go North. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmontheloknow Posted March 10, 2020 Share Posted March 10, 2020 11 minutes ago, Doonhamer1969 said: Whitburn? Whats the story with them ? I'm losing track of shifting clubs here..... Forgot them! Edited in. They are glued in! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Che Dail Posted March 10, 2020 Share Posted March 10, 2020 7 hours ago, Robert James said: I think it is inevitable that there will be questions (and answers) about the merits and disadvantages of conferences -v- a vertical structure . Existing West Juniors have no experience of conferences, and its potential impact on attendances, costs, and player recruitment, will be relevant. Some clubs may make their decision to apply (or not to apply) on the answers they receive from the officials, regarding the structure format for 2020/21. However this will be about information sharing, as no final 'structural' decision can be made until the total number of applications is known. Personally, I would prefer a conference structure, although I accept that I am biased as a GUFC supporter !! It could be a combination of the two depending on numbers... i.e. maintain a top 'Premier' of the 16 highest placed applicants and go to conferences below that. If the new 'incomers' are indeed competitive they'll get promoted. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doonhamer1969 Posted March 10, 2020 Share Posted March 10, 2020 3 minutes ago, cmontheloknow said: Forgot them! Edited in. They are glued in! Aye, I'm just looking at numbers. East South division will certainly be down to one league, unless they're planning on 6 team leagues playing each other about 5 or 6 times per season..... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jacksgranda Posted March 10, 2020 Share Posted March 10, 2020 10 hours ago, Killiepiyo said: Football aside, How would you sell it to supporters that their club will lose substantial amounts of money and players, so that civil service and who ever else can get big gates for a while? If they stay where they are while other teams move they will lose substantial amounts of money and players, so that they can remain loyal to the grade. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshmallo Posted March 10, 2020 Share Posted March 10, 2020 7 hours ago, Killiepiyo said: My inbox would make most people sad as appears some are letting personal grievances get the better of them and its affecting clubs and supporters in lots of different ways. The absolute worst thing imo is for people to make decisions out of fear or bullying so lets all get as much information as possible from both meetings and even if theres things not agreeable, talk without being called stupid, backwards, dinosuar, traitor, conspirator etc. -3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burnie_man Posted March 10, 2020 Author Share Posted March 10, 2020 But this time ALL the clubs will be incomers, so there are no incumbents to be given that sort of priority. The accepted applicants must make any necessary decisions about the format of a new WoSLThere is also a responsibility of those running the league to treat all applicants equally, and ensure those who are outwith the Junior game dont get punted to levels below others. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marten Posted March 10, 2020 Share Posted March 10, 2020 1 hour ago, Doonhamer1969 said: For 100% clarity, if a club north of the midpoint of the Tay Bridge applied for the EoS, what would happen ? Is there an actual rule or agreement somewhere that stops the EoS from accepting their application ? (Bearing in mind of course that in theory, after 3 promotions then a relegation, they could find themselves in the Highland League) I note that the Lowland League's original announcement re Notes of interest mentioned 'geographical integrity', although that was in relation to applications for the WoS obviously. As far as I know, the EOS in theory have no rules against accepting them. However, one north of Tay Bridge club at least has already been knocked back due to location and Tayside clubs know they won't be accepted if they apply for the EOS. From the idea I'm getting, the EOS have basically agreed with the LL to only accept clubs within LL territory. If the rumoured boundary change happens it will be interesting to see if this will change. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShrimpLok Posted March 10, 2020 Share Posted March 10, 2020 6 hours ago, San Starko Rover said: There is zero chance a club like Talbot will not move to a new WOSFL and risk being left behind by their rivals. Lets say for arguments sake they did stay and exactly what happened in the east happens in the West. half the teams in WRJFA move to WOSFL, Talbot stay in a weakened WRJFA as the teams who've moved are replaced by lower standard Junior teams. The second year a few more clubs move to the WOSFL Talbot now have the choice of staying in an ever weakening WRJFA or joining WOSFL at Tier 7 the following year Tier 8 etc. Every team that moves to WOSFL will improve their league and weaken the WRJFA it wouldn't be long before Talbot started to lose players to teams they formally dominated and by the time they moved and played their way through the Tiers of weak teams there's a good chance they would never manage to overtake some of the other former Juniors. Talbot are a well run club and will defiantly move to ensure they're not left behind. Any club who turns down the WOSFL will face death by a thousand cuts as they get weaker season on season look what's left in the ERJFA and bear in mind the Tayside teams are only there as they've nowhere else to go. For evidence of what happens to a club that “stays behind” see Whitburn pre vs post Superleague. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burnie_man Posted March 10, 2020 Author Share Posted March 10, 2020 9 hours ago, Killiepiyo said: I think the worst position to be in would be a take it or leave burnie style approach as I dont personally see that as being constructive. The LL intend to allow all clubs to join at the same level, tier 6, as they did in the EoS. That is a fair and constructive way to kick off the first season in a brand new league with members coming from different areas of the game. Not sure how that cannot be a constructive way to approach this. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post AsimButtHitsASix Posted March 10, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted March 10, 2020 Just so we've got this right. From the very start of the pyramid discussions the SJFA were in the driving seat if they wanted to be. They could have basically shifted their entire league system over. They might have had to make a joint East/West Super Duper League at the top. They might have had to get a few Tayside clubs to move North. They'd have had to find a place in their own system for the SoS, NCL and EoS leagues or amalgamate them in but, by and large, a few (minor) concessions here and there and they would have had the run of all the non-league. They didn't bother and spent a decade ripping the pish out of the leagues that were set up. The EoS league? Gave up all their best teams. For a while it was nothing but a glorified amateur league dangerously close to single figures. Same for the SoS. They did make sacrifices to get it up and running. The EoS (a member ran league) were also happy to not only allow junior clubs to come in en masse, making their own chances of progression slimmer, they went out of their way to let them come in as complete equals. They could have created an EoS First Division and let the better teams bottleneck and take advantage and never. The SoS, too, has been happy to let clubs come in and make the possibility for progression of their better teams drop. They're supporting a WoS league despite the fact it will see them lose clubs and, let's be honest, increases the chances of them dropping a tier in the future. Now the EoS and SoS are helping set up a WoS league. They're, again, diluting their members own chances of progression. They're diluting their chances of Scottish Cup runs and prize money. They're bending over backwards to get something in place for teams from the West Coast to have the same opportunities they've been granted and fought for. Of course it's not entirely altruistic and I'm sure Tynecastle and Tweedmouth are enjoying bigger crowds and all the other benefits a greater pool of opposition has created but they've been able to bend and negotiate and make sacrifices and make efforts to improve the game at their level and collectively improve all clubs in their league, even the new Junior refugees, ahead of only caring about themselves. And now, at the very last minute, some Junior blazers SUDDENLY decide it's time to act, when they've lost all their bargaining power they once had, and are being told that they can't just make demands and expect everyone to acquiesce they're claiming it's bullying? It's like a bunch of weans deciding to have a game of fitba and one wean wanting to play rugby. That wean spends all their time slagging off everyone else for playing fitba before realising he's got no-one else to play with and demanding to join the fitba game but only on the condition he's still allowed to pick up the ball and run with it. 43 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Che Dail Posted March 10, 2020 Share Posted March 10, 2020 2 hours ago, cmontheloknow said: Yep any remainers need only look at the moonscape that is the ERSJFA South now (and what it will be next year). Armadale Bathgate Bo'ness Utd Juniors Fauldhouse Harthill Linlithgow Rose CFC Livingston Utd Pumpherston Sauchie Juniors Community Stoneyburn Syngenta (?) West Calder Whitburn Not so much a poor league, but sitting outside the pyramid makes its prospects seem bleak. There must be a way to get them all on board. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doonhamer1969 Posted March 10, 2020 Share Posted March 10, 2020 53 minutes ago, Marten said: As far as I know, the EOS in theory have no rules against accepting them. However, one north of Tay Bridge club at least has already been knocked back due to location and Tayside clubs know they won't be accepted if they apply for the EOS. From the idea I'm getting, the EOS have basically agreed with the LL to only accept clubs within LL territory. If the rumoured boundary change happens it will be interesting to see if this will change. Cheers. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dev Posted March 10, 2020 Share Posted March 10, 2020 9 hours ago, GNU_Linux said: 9 hours ago, Dev said: The Lowland League was approached by west Junior clubs first of all and then became active in the creation of the Tier 6 Pyramid structure in the west for 2020/21. How many clubs? It was referred to in at least one earlier post, a while back. From either Born to run or in one of the Statements issued directly by the Lowland League. I don't recall that it stated how many clubs or which ones. It's unlikely that the league would name clubs. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dev Posted March 10, 2020 Share Posted March 10, 2020 9 hours ago, archieb said: But this time ALL the clubs will be incomers, so there are no incumbents to be given that sort of priority. The accepted applicants must make any necessary decisions about the format of a new WoSL You're right. That's what is to happen. It has been mentioned in at least one of the Lowland League's Statements. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dev Posted March 10, 2020 Share Posted March 10, 2020 (edited) 2 hours ago, Moomintroll said: 9 hours ago, Killiepiyo said: I didnt think you did have issues with me, I just really think if there ever was a time to leave fallouts in the past and let cooler heids prevail, it's now. My inbox would make most people sad as appears some are letting personal grievances get the better of them and its affecting clubs and supporters in lots of different ways. The absolute worst thing imo is for people to make decisions out of fear or bullying so lets all get as much information as possible from both meetings and even if theres things not agreeable, talk without being called stupid, backwards, dinosuar, traitor, conspirator etc. Lots of things no right in Scottish football but decent chance here of getting something good on the go, however that may look/be set up moving forward. Can't argue with any of that. Ditto. Shame Killiepiyo that you didn't clarify this at the start! Edited March 10, 2020 by Dev update 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ross. Posted March 10, 2020 Share Posted March 10, 2020 15 hours ago, patriot1 said: Why is no one talking about this "partial" PWG meeting? What are the benefits to the LL and EOS of attending this meeting? Are they happy to agree some sort of compromise? What do the WRSJFA hope will be achieved? Why is it on the same day as the LL meeting with the West Region clubs? What on earth is a partial PWG meeting? I've thought for the last few months that the West Region would have something up there sleeves. Is this it? Is there any chance that the SPFL or SFA could put the kybosh on the LL plan? What's the maximum amount of questions you can ask in one post on P n B? The partial meeting was requested by the WRJFA/SJFA in order that they could present it at their meeting as "See, we still have influence and can make them listen". I have no idea what a "Partial meeting" is mind you. It's either a meeting or its not a meeting. I wouldn't be surprised if the other parties agreed to it as a courtesy. I will be astonished if it changes anything. The LL version of a WOSL will be the version that happens, if any. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burnie_man Posted March 10, 2020 Author Share Posted March 10, 2020 49 minutes ago, ShrimpLok said: For evidence of what happens to a club that “stays behind” see Whitburn pre vs post Superleague. It's not entirely true. When Whitburn refused to join the new Superleague, they spent 2 or 3 seasons trying to get promoted into it, when they eventually did they finished second and third in consecutive seasons from memory, then mid table-ish, then the decade long decline began. Not convinced the refusal to join Superleague has much to do with their eventual decline, apart from giving an insight into how their committee run the club and were asleep at the wheel during the decline. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dev Posted March 10, 2020 Share Posted March 10, 2020 (edited) 3 hours ago, Doonhamer1969 said: For 100% clarity, if a club north of the midpoint of the Tay Bridge applied for the EoS, what would happen ? Is there an actual rule or agreement somewhere that stops the EoS from accepting their application ? (Bearing in mind of course that in theory, after 3 promotions then a relegation, they could find themselves in the Highland League) I note that the Lowland League's original announcement re Notes of interest mentioned 'geographical integrity', although that was in relation to applications for the WoS obviously. I believe that there are no rules which state that a league cannot accept clubs from the other side of the Tay Bridge line. However, any clubs playing on the other side of the line will have issues if they wish to move up to the Lowland League or the Highland League upon winning the league championship. Means Tayport can play in the Highland Pyramid but cannot be promoted to the Highland League. Similarly Luncarty could play in the EoS but couldn't play in the Lowland League. This probably wouldn't make any difference to either club unless they have ambitions to play at Tier 5 or higher. Edited March 10, 2020 by Dev . 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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