Junior football, what is the future?

[Gimme]

The corrolory to that is the expectation of conferences leading to relatively smaller gates for the better supported clubs which, even for a single season, could be seen as enough of a financial risk and disincentive to prevent some Premiership members from applying.

This didn't really happen in the East. Not saying it can't or won't happen in the West but based on experiences on this side of the country there was no significant drop off in attendance a cross the season.

[Footballfirst]

9 minutes ago, archieb said:

The corrolory to that is the expectation of conferences leading to relatively smaller gates for the better supported clubs which, even for a single season, could be seen as enough of a financial risk and disincentive to prevent some Premiership members from applying.

It didn't work out that way in the East, as there was competition at the top of the three conferences, to make the play off, or to make the top 5 to ensure entry to the East Premier league for this season. Gates for most of the clubs that reached the East Premier league were up on their last season in the juniors.

Edited March 9, 2020 by Footballfirst

[Hillonearth]

15 minutes ago, Burnie_man said:

I'm going to guess he'll want more clubs to sign up to his "declaration", hence why he wants more than just normal delegates at the meeting.

He wants it so he can wave it at the SFA, problem is the LL can wave 56 notes of interest back at him!

It’ll be interesting to see how many have actually signed up for it – sure, you’ll always get that degree of uncritical support, but in all conscience as a custodian of a club I’d find it impossible to sign up for any plan which will certainly affect the future of that club prior to having actually seen it and looked into the ramifications of it.

And y’know what? I’d say exactly the same thing if the shoe were on the other foot and the WoSFL were looking for carte blanche support for their plans before we saw them.

[honestman54]

1 hour ago, LongTimeLurker said:

 

It should be noted that the LL/EOS meeting on Thursday is the only one with a publicised agenda and the only one which deliver a Pyramid feeder league.  The one on Tuesday is neither of these.

[FairWeatherFan]

17 minutes ago, archieb said:

The corrolory to that is the expectation of conferences leading to relatively smaller gates for the better supported clubs which, even for a single season, could be seen as enough of a financial risk and disincentive to prevent some Premiership members from applying.

Who are the minority of the 51+ clubs that have put in a note of interest.

[archieb]

7 minutes ago, Burnie_man said:

It never harmed the bigger clubs in the east, why would it in the west?

 

4 minutes ago, Gimme said:

12 minutes ago, archieb said:

The corrolory to that is the expectation of conferences leading to relatively smaller gates for the better supported clubs which, even for a single season, could be seen as enough of a financial risk and disincentive to prevent some Premiership members from applying.

This didn't really happen in the East. Not saying it can't or won't happen in the West but based on experiences on this side of the country there was no significant drop off in attendance a cross the season.

 

3 minutes ago, Footballfirst said:

It didn't work out that way in the East, as there was competition at the top of the three conferences, to make the play off, or to make the top 5 to ensure entry to the East Premier league for this season. Gates for most of the clubs that reached the East Premier league were up on their last season in the juniors.

I appreciate that but this is a different situation, and I'm suggesting that with no existing Senior clubs to be included in an amalgamation, but a majority of lower division WRSJFA teams, the (imagined?) risk may be enough to put some Premiership clubs off.

[Footballfirst]

I'd guess that on Tuesday the WRJFA will effectively be collecting notes of interest in a WRJFA run WOSL.  I'd expect that the majority will probably say "yes, my club would be interested".

That number will then be used by the WR committee to demonstrate the the clubs are behind their initiative.

What it won't say is whether or not their proposal is deliverable, and in the same timescales as that proposed by the LL.  Nor will it show that their proposal offers a better solution for the clubs with respect to pyramid entry than that from the LL. 

At Thursday's meeting, the LL will set out their entry requirements and proposed governance and league structure options.   Their proposal will be much more advanced that that of the WR.

The key message will be that the the LL plan is deliverable. 

Edited March 9, 2020 by Footballfirst

[honestman54]

2 minutes ago, Footballfirst said:

I'd guess that on Tuesday the WRJFA will effectively be collecting notes of interest in a WRJFA run WOSL.  I'd expect that the majority will probably say "yes, my club would be interested".

That number will then be used by the WR committee to demonstrate the the clubs are behind their initiative.

What it won't say is whether or not their proposal is deliverable, in the same timescales as that proposed by the LL.  Nor will it show that their proposal offers a better solution for the clubs with respect of pyramid entry than that from the LL. 

At Thursday's meeting, the LL will set out their entry requirements and proposed governance and league structure options.   Their proposal will be much more advanced that that of the WR.

The key message will be that the the LL plan is deliverable. 

Thursdays LL meeting can also show interest from over 50 clubs.

[theesel1994]

3 minutes ago, Footballfirst said:

I'd guess that on Tuesday the WRJFA will effectively be collecting notes of interest in a WRJFA run WOSL.  I'd expect that the majority will probably say "yes, my club would be interested".

It is more than collecting notes of interest. This is signing up to saying we back the West Region and NOT the other proposal. That's why they want two top level officials from each club at the meeting.

[Footballfirst]

1 minute ago, honestman54 said:

Thursdays LL meeting can also show interest from over 50 clubs.

The LL already has those numbers, so that is a given. The WR has had no similar formal commitments to date.

[Gimme]

I appreciate that but this is a different situation, and I'm suggesting that with no existing Senior clubs to be included in an amalgamation, but a majority of lower division WRSJFA teams, the (imagined?) risk may be enough to put some Premiership clubs off.

What happens if some of the well supported sides leave anyway? Reduced attendances for those that remain.

It's one season, clubs need foresight not short sightedness. If there are clubs who only survive on the basis of away support then I understand then hesitation but the liklihood is those clubs below them, with a bit of ambition will leapfrog them in the short term.

For arguments sake let's say Glenafton and Pollok don't move but everyone else in the top league did, over the course of the season they realise they have made a mistake and decide to move for the following season. Instead of coming into the top league they may find themselves in a second of third division. Suddenly they can't attract the calibre of player they used to as they now opt to play for clubs higher up the chain, they don't have the success they have had in the past and find themselves languishing at the lower levels.

[santheman]

1 minute ago, Footballfirst said:

I'd guess that on Tuesday the WRJFA will effectively be collecting notes of interest in a WRJFA run WOSL.  I'd expect that the majority will probably say "yes, my club would be interested".

That number will then be used by the WR committee to demonstrate the the clubs are behind their initiative.

What it won't say is whether or not their proposal is deliverable, in the same timescales as that proposed by the LL.  Nor will it show that their proposal offers a better solution for the clubs with respect of pyramid entry than that from the LL. 

At Thursday's meeting, the LL will set out their entry requirements and proposed governance and league structure options.   Their proposal will be much more advanced that that of the WR.

The key message will be that the the LL plan is deliverable. 

And most WRJFA clubs will be saying that they are interested  in their proposals to both sets of officials at the LL and WRJFA meetings until this whole saga comes to an end and they know which side of the fence the grass is greener.

Quick question though that was being discussed on Saturday.

If all WRJFA clubs do decide to jump ship and they all apply for the ground development grants  (1k??) that are being suggested will be available (same as they are in the EOS) where will the funding come from for what would essentially be a start up league 

[Footballfirst]

1 minute ago, theesel1994 said:

It is more than collecting notes of interest. This is signing up to saying we back the West Region and NOT the other proposal. That's why they want two top level officials from each club at the meeting.

I believe that club's will view any commitment as "I am interested in keeping all avenues open".  I would be very surprised if any more than a handful of clubs sign up to the WRJFA WOSL plan to the exclusion of the LL WOSFL proposal.

[honestman54]

Anyone noted this article in the Largs local paper? https://www.largsandmillportnews.com/sport/18286676.devil-detail-new-pyramid-proposals/?ref=twtrec

Sounds like another effort at lies and more lies.  What is this SFA meeting on 7th June that he thinks will decide the future of the new WOS league.  

[Burnie_man]

4 minutes ago, theesel1994 said:

It is more than collecting notes of interest. This is signing up to saying we back the West Region and NOT the other proposal. That's why they want two top level officials from each club at the meeting.

Correct.

Nobody should be signing anything tomorrow, clubs should go to both meetings and then take that information back to the clubs/members and weigh up who is most likely deliver pyramid entry next season.  The LL don't need applications until 31st March so there is a 2.5 week window.

[Footballfirst]

4 minutes ago, santheman said:

If all WRJFA clubs do decide to jump ship and they all apply for the ground development grants  (1k??) that are being suggested will be available (same as they are in the EOS) where will the funding come from for what would essentially be a start up league 

It's a perfectly valid question which would be appropriate for the Q&A at the LL meeting.  It could also be asked at the WRJFA meeting to see if they could offer anything similar.

Edited March 9, 2020 by Footballfirst

[FairWeatherFan]

7 minutes ago, archieb said:

I appreciate that but this is a different situation, and I'm suggesting that with no existing Senior clubs to be included in an amalgamation, but a majority of lower division WRSJFA teams, the (imagined?) risk may be enough to put some Premiership clubs off.

Being put off by a single season of Conference football, just has a negative impact further down the line.

Enough clubs are going to sign up for the WoSFL and they are going to be Tier 6 and licenced, while those worried about missing certain fixtures will be outside the pyramid and lost depth to the West Region.

Keep in mind these were the original 13 clubs accepted into the EoSFL for 2018-19:

• Blackburn Utd (Premier League)
• Bonnyrigg Rose (Super League)
• Camelon (Super League)
• Crossgates (South Division)
• Dalkeith (Premier Division)
• Dunipace (Central Second Division)
• Easthouses (South Division)
• Edinburgh Utd (South Division)
• Haddington (Premier League)
• Hill of Beath (Super League)
• Inverkeithing Hillfield Swifts (Youth)
• Musselburgh (Premier League)
• Tranent  (Premier League)

Only 3x Super League clubs. When the bigger clubs realised they were losing the strength and depth of the region, they soon signed up.

[Burnie_man]

4 minutes ago, santheman said:

If all WRJFA clubs do decide to jump ship and they all apply for the ground development grants  (1k??) that are being suggested will be available (same as they are in the EOS) where will the funding come from for what would essentially be a start up league 

Nobody said it was available, it was listed as a benefit of EoS membership.

Like any "new start" it may not be available immediately, but it's a question worth asking on Thursday.

[Pyramidic]

At what point does the WRJFA proposal need the endorsement of an EGM of the SJFA? Surely what the WRJFA are doing at the present time is unconstitutional as they have not received a mandate from the SJFA.

How can the SFA treat Tuesday’s meeting as serious when it is unconstitutional?

Edited March 9, 2020 by Pyramidic

[Che Dail]

21 minutes ago, archieb said:

The corrolory to that is the expectation of conferences leading to relatively smaller gates for the better supported clubs which, even for a single season, could be seen as enough of a financial risk and disincentive to prevent some Premiership members from applying.

I know - although I'm unsure if that actually was the case over the course of the season for most of the former East SL clubs.

Would be incredibly short-termist if that alone was enough to put a club off applying, given the long-term benefits of joining in now.

Another thing to take into account was the increase in cup comps, and the fact that the home team keeps the gate (altho one or two clubs were unlucky with away draws). 

It's a bigger risk staying out, would be my concern.