Junior football, what is the future?

[Robert James]

39 minutes ago, FairWeatherFan said:

Its a friendly. All friendlies are meaningless. They're even below cup games for people trying to gauge levels of entire leagues based on two clubs in a one off game. At least cup games are competitive fixtures. With friendlies you have no idea what either side was looking to achieve (match fitness, trialists, youth players, second string players getting runs out).

I agree, in principle about "friendlies"

However from reading the match summary, it appears to have been a feisty and very competitive (4-4) game. 

Also, its timing is interesting. given the pyramid situation in the West.  I can't recall Armadale & Tynecastle  playing against each other previously, although I may be wrong ?   Can you ?.  

[razamanaz]

Well done to Dunipace yesterday - they've come a long way since leaving the Joonurs

 

''What a great day for the players, fans and committee. The players were fantastic and deserve all the praise for the victory. Caley Braves are a good side and are doing well thus far in the Lowland league.

Hopefully this current form can continue and the lads can continue to challenge in the cups and league.

It has been a considerable time since Dunipace have been in the semi final of a cup. The club is a million miles away from where we were this time 2 years ago, both on the park and off it.

Exciting times!''

[Duraglit shareholder]

41 minutes ago, Gordon EF said:

Nope. It's irrational because you don't accept or consider any logic or evidence that contradicts that submission.

Flat Earthers use logic and evidence but they're irrational because they choose to ignore any logic or evidence that goes against what they want to be true.

Flat Earthers have never been to Beiths ground.

[cmontheloknow]

1 minute ago, razamanaz said:

Well done to Dunipace yesterday - they've come a long way since leaving the Joonurs

 

''What a great day for the players, fans and committee. The players were fantastic and deserve all the praise for the victory. Caley Braves are a good side and are doing well thus far in the Lowland league.

Hopefully this current form can continue and the lads can continue to challenge in the cups and league.

It has been a considerable time since Dunipace have been in the semi final of a cup. The club is a million miles away from where we were this time 2 years ago, both on the park and off it.

Exciting times!''

21 years possibly? My divisional records stop in 2011 (catching up a wee project for a very rainy day!) but they won the Evening Times Cup in 1998-99.

[AlanCamelonfan]

12 minutes ago, Burnie_man said:

Can we please stick to the point of the thread FFS.  There's a reconstruction thread for this pish elsewhere, let us concentrate on our own pish.

Tuesday and thursday nights meetings will be interesting. I imagine Ronney could cause controversy at lowland league meeting.

In the initial posts with ronney he seemed fairly reasonable and trying to do it with the right reasons but sometimes and I find it myself when you start getting bogged down in an argument you start to lose perspective and ppl lose the plot. Why we had 8 pages coz I offered a suggestion to the grades fixture secretary who took it as criticism of the grade. So Romney's motives was to get all teams in but it's now bogged down on saving the grade and  now is no benefit to anyone. Politicians get into politics tofor the right reasons but it ends up oh so different 

[andy25]

You certainly lost the plot a few days ago Alan [emoji1787][emoji1787][emoji1787]

Tuesday and thursday nights meetings will be interesting. I imagine Ronney could cause controversy at lowland league meeting.
In the initial posts with ronney he seemed fairly reasonable and trying to do it with the right reasons but sometimes and I find it myself when you start getting bogged down in an argument you start to lose perspective and ppl lose the plot. Why we had 8 pages coz I offered a suggestion to the grades fixture secretary who took it as criticism of the grade. So Romney's motives was to get all teams in but it's now bogged down on saving the grade and  now is no benefit to anyone. Politicians get into politics tofor the right reasons but it ends up oh so different 

[AlanCamelonfan]

1 minute ago, andy25 said:

You certainly lost the plot a few days ago Alan

So did yous guys get so protective of the grade. The interesting thing talbot will go where they think they will progress which is y they havent really said a lot

[andy25]

It was you that was heading for a breakdown [emoji1787]

So did yous guys get so protective of the grade. The interesting thing talbot will go where they think they will progress which is y they havent really said a lot

[FairWeatherFan]

14 minutes ago, Robert James said:

Also, its timing is interesting. given the pyramid situation in the West.  I can't recall Armadale & Tynecastle  playing against each other previously, although I may be wrong ?   Can you ?.  

Juniors, seniors and amateurs have grabbed friendlies against each during the season for years. Its not a sign of anything. As for an example of Tynecastle v Armadale specifically. No idea i'm not a fan of either club so wouldn't keep track of something like that.

[Marshmallo]

2 minutes ago, FairWeatherFan said:

Juniors, seniors and amateurs have grabbed friendlies against each during the season for years. Its not a sign of anything. As for an example of Tynecastle v Armadale specifically. No idea i'm not a fan of either club so wouldn't keep track of something like that.

Please stop quoting that moon man. It renders me having him on ignore meaningless.

[Hillonearth]

16 minutes ago, AlanCamelonfan said:

Tuesday and thursday nights meetings will be interesting. I imagine Ronney could cause controversy at lowland league meeting.

In the initial posts with ronney he seemed fairly reasonable and trying to do it with the right reasons but sometimes and I find it myself when you start getting bogged down in an argument you start to lose perspective and ppl lose the plot. Why we had 8 pages coz I offered a suggestion to the grades fixture secretary who took it as criticism of the grade. So Romney's motives was to get all teams in but it's now bogged down on saving the grade and  now is no benefit to anyone. Politicians get into politics tofor the right reasons but it ends up oh so different 

I hope that's not the case. Both of them should really be no more than presentations of detailed proposals for the new leagues with something to take away back to the clubs to help them come to a decision.

The last thing we need at either is anyone grandstanding and chaining themselves either to the gates of Hampden or the breakfast buffet at the Holiday Inn.

[Born To Run]

So, back on topic...

Think I’m right in saying the SJFA meeting is on Tuesday, followed by the LL evening on Thursday. We should finally get some answers and resolution from the coming weekend.

[Che Dail]

55 minutes ago, MrWorldwideJr said:

This post just proves my point. None of the things you are saying are actual arguments, its just buzzwords. Explain to me why the current structure is unproductive. Explain why regionalising instead would be more productive. Explain why your change is required in order for more emphasis to be placed on facilities, coaching and development. Explain why regionalising earlier will improve the football league structure, what will be better for supporters of, say, Stirling Albion if they are playing regionally instead of nationally? Explain why it would be more attractive to sponsors. You don't do any of this, you just say it would be so as it is obvious, but it isn't.

As for 'bringing up the national team argument again' - you are the one who has pushed this as the main thrust of your argument for pages and pages. If you want to change your tune now then fair enough but don't act as if its weird that people are refuting something that until recently was the main point of your argument.

Please read this article, and tell me if you agree or disagree with the content and specifically the heading, "Scottish FA decades behind and need 'much bigger ambition."  And if the statements within the article contain enough empirical evidence: https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/51416943

"There have been some minor successes but we really haven't achieved the goals that were set out"

5 year plan and we keep failing.  Mediocrity prevails, again.

Many changes have been made to the Scottish game, but there have been no real material changes to the league structure.  I am not a professional academic in this field and don't have access to the time required to compile screeds of data .  I'm merely a hobby contributor to a football forum with an opinion, like most others on here . 

I am purely drawing on anecdotal evidence from other countries and noticing that we fail, but continue to do the same thing, whereas others succeed doing things differently - that is surely enough in itself to question if change would have a positive effect.

Forget about the national team for now -  I accept that it is a concept too far to prove at this point.

But I do think the league set-up would be better for all if it's regionalised at T3 and if implemented, would be attractive long-term to the West Junior and Tayside clubs, as well as those currently in the pro game.

Edited March 8, 2020 by Che Dail

[GNU_Linux]

Irvine Medda are having a shareholders meeting re: pyramid today at 14:30. EGM to follow on 22nd.

[AlanCamelonfan]

8 minutes ago, Hillonearth said:

I hope that's not the case. Both of them should really be no more than presentations of detailed proposals for the new leagues with something to take away back to the clubs to help them come to a decision.

The last thing we need at either is anyone grandstanding and chaining themselves either to the gates of Hampden or the breakfast buffet at the Holiday Inn.

I hope not either but as I say people get bogged down with something it becomes blinkered. 

 

Anyone stands up at juniors one are going to be traitors to the grade. Thursday who knows

[Gordon EF]

34 minutes ago, Che Dail said:

Please read this article, and tell me if you agree or disagree with the content and specifically the heading, "Scottish FA decades behind and need 'much bigger ambition."  And if the statements within the article contain enough empirical evidence: https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/51416943

"There have been some minor successes but we really haven't achieved the goals that were set out"

It's easy to point out that in many aspects, we are not achieving what we should or could achieve in terms of player production. Anyone could tell you that. And yes, investing in facilities and coaching would be something most would see as helping with that. That is a completely separate issue to the league structure however. Why are you trying to conflate the two?

Quote

But I do think the league set-up would be better for all if it's regionalised at T3 and if implemented, would be attractive long-term to the West Junior and Tayside clubs, as well as those currently in the pro game.

We know you think it would be better. The benefits are clearly not that obvious to people in the game because almost nobody wants it. Why would it be better? What would be attractive about it? What measurable difference would we be able to see in 10, 15, 20 years if we just split tiers 3 and 4 into regionalised leagues?

[Robert James]

51 minutes ago, Burnie_man said:

Can we please stick to the point of the thread FFS.  There's a reconstruction thread for this pish elsewhere, let us concentrate on our own pish.

Yes burnie_man, I agree........... back on the point of this thread:  "Junior Football, what is the future ?".

We all await the outcome of the Tuesday & Thursday meetings this week. 

At present there are 63 West Junior clubs and  and 23 East Juniors south of the HFL/SLL boundary (including Tayport, Scone Thistle & also Luncarty). It would be interesting to hear your prediction  (and those of others on this thread ?) as to the total number of junior clubs who for 2020/21, will :

* LEAVE and join the 'senior' pyramid, or

* REMAIN with the Juniors

in both the West (63) & the East (23) regions ?    'Closing date' for any predictions is midnight on Monday 9th March. 

Just a bit of fun for you and others on here, whilst we await progress.  Also, it might mean that we won't have to read other posts (eg football in the Netherlands, etc), which should be on other P&B forums, and not on here.

 

[gaz5]

21 years possibly? My divisional records stop in 2011 (catching up a wee project for a very rainy day!) but they won the Evening Times Cup in 1998-99.

That is indeed the last time we made a semi final.

Not looking to be controversial, just comparing available competitions, but that was an "additional" cup. The South Challenge is the biggest in the region we play, so compared to the Junior cup 1979 was the last time we made that size of Semi final, comparatively.

Coldstream 1-3 Dunipace
Edinburgh United 1-2 Dunipace
Dunipace 3-1 Glenrothes Juniors
Dunipace 1-0 Bonnyrigg Rose
Caledonian Braves 0-1 Dunipace

Not been an "easy" draw to get there either. Two tough away games to start, a win against one of only two teams to beat us at home in 19 games this season, Lowland League title contenders Bonnyrigg and in Caley Braves the team who last week beat big spending East Stirling with the same starting lineup that played yesterday.

[Marten]

1 hour ago, FairWeatherFan said:

Juniors, seniors and amateurs have grabbed friendlies against each during the season for years. Its not a sign of anything. As for an example of Tynecastle v Armadale specifically. No idea i'm not a fan of either club so wouldn't keep track of something like that.

At the start of this season, I've been to Lochee United v Formartine United, a friendly. It's not the first time Lochee United played Highland League opposition in a friendly. That doesn't automatically mean the club want to play in the Highland League, and it doesn't mean that Formartine would be happy to see Tayside feeding in the HFL (I have no idea what their views on that are, but it's just not possible to draw conclusions one way or the other).

Friendlies are usually born out of convenience, i.e. 2 clubs that both don't have a game so decide to play each other, or even both managers knowing each other and agreeing a friendly. Nothing else can be read into it.

[clash city rocker]

5 hours ago, G4Mac said:

You are not saying its dunipaces fault, but you are saying the clubs should have done something about it and because they havent they shouldnt moan about it now.

This type of trench mentality is what the sjfa are hoping for because it means clubs will choose to stay junior.

I, like many others, have tried to remain as objective as I can when trying to inform other of the benefits of the pyramid system, from 1st hand knowledge of the success it's been for my club.

Now though it is becoming tiresome going over and over the same nonsense, reading about loyalty to a grade, the cost to join the pyramid, great plans and ideas being purported with no actual evidence, threats of legal action to name but a few.

The LL wos will be the only wos league in the pyramid structure, anyone thinking otherwise or telling clubs otherwise, is either misinformed, hasn't looked into the pyramid set up properly or is misleading people. (Potentially deliberately)
 

Mate think your getting wrong end of stick here. Even the much maligned Mr Ronney will tell you a have no much time at all for SJfa. There's no point closing the gate when the horse is halfway doon the dirt track , moaning about reinstatement is fine just wish Dunipace had moaned about it whilst junior and not now when they have no influence in getting it removed. You will get no loyalty to a grade from me that it's head blazers called fans of my club scum , not once but twice , no sir.

Edited March 8, 2020 by clash city rocker