Junior football, what is the future?

[BTID]

8 minutes ago, oldandround said:

There is but one negative from joining the seniors as far as I can see.

The syfa has a dual contract system in place with the sjfa.

In contrast the syfa has banned young players from playing developmental football with a senior side.

Thus means that should say arthurlie 21s want their player to turn out for the junior side he can.

If they move senior he couldn’t play for the 20s.

The syfa have banned it

Madness!

Thing is, if your truly on board with a pathway why would you want your 21s playing the exact same time as the first team? Any player required misses out on 90 and probably sits on a bench most times. Both teams lose out. Progressive teams will look to implement a 20s. 

[glensmad]

It's interesting that the "extra General Meeting" of the West Region clubs is taking place next Tuesday, while a date hasn't yet been confirmed for the LL-WosFL information meeting. I expect that to be next week some time as well, but I'd be surprised if it is before Tuesday. Consequently, any teams who wish to keep their options open should be very careful about what (if anything) they commit to at Tuesday night's meeting.

I also note that Tuesday's meeting hasn't been called an "Extraordinary General Meeting", i.e. an EGM. It has just been termed as an "extra General Meeting". Whether that has any significance or not I don't know.

[Gordon EF]

Junior clubs = fantastic clubs who most people would love to see join the senior set up.

Junior fans = great football people, it'd be great to see them in the senior set up.

Most officials in the junior game = doing a great jobs for their clubs, the same as many people at senior clubs.

A minority of officials at junior clubs who have some weird tribal "grade mentality" = thickos who're trying to protect their own position and damage football and clubs.

That probably describes the position of most 'senior' supporters regarding the juniors. That doesn't make anybody in th eleast bit a "junior hater".

[oldandround]

For a start, if you have an U20 team in the LL U20 Development league, they are registered for the first team as well, so you can field U20 players in the first teams any time you like.  Also, over age first team players can play upto 6 times for the U20's.  In effect, you have a squad of 40+ players.
You can play SYFA players in the LL U20 Development league as trialists with permission of the parent team.
We play our U17 and U19 players (SYFA registered) with our U20's as trialists.  The LL have confirmation from the SYFA they can do that although there was something on the SERYFA website claiming otherwise.
As ever, far too many tin pot Associations scrambling about for recognition.
EDIT: so to flip it round, an advantage of being in the new WoSFL is that you can enter an U20 team in the LL U20 Development league and play these players in your first team with absolutely no issues, no agreements required.
 

As a member of an East Lothian club involved with the u20s team I get and agree with moving over.

It’s been brilliant. Everyone must do it ASAP.

However I have an email from Mitch Agnew that states I cannot play syfa registered players as trialists in the u20s

I tried to use a couple of promising u17s and was told they would be banned from syfa games as there is no agreement between the associations.

Lowland are perfectly happy, syfa not.

So these lads elected not to play u20s just now so as not to jeopardise their u17 team

It’s just bonkers.

Syfa blazers have the joonyur disease.

[Burnie_man]

5 minutes ago, oldandround said:

 

As a member of an East Lothian club involved with the u20s team I get and agree with moving over.

It’s been brilliant. Everyone must do it ASAP.

However I have an email from Mitch Agnew that states I cannot play syfa registered players as trialists in the u20s

I tried to use a couple of promising u17s and was told they would be banned from syfa games as there is no agreement between the associations.

Lowland are perfectly happy, syfa not.

So these lads elected not to play u20s just now so as not to jeopardise their u17 team

It’s just bonkers.

Syfa blazers have the joonyur disease.
 

 

Yip I agree, it's totally bonkers but as long as the LL are quite happy for their members to continue, and the teams concerned are happy for their players to play, we will continue to do it on LL advice.

The SYFA (in the east at least) are stifling player pathways to try and protect their own patch, your last line is perfectly true and perhaps why there are rumours now and again about the LL setting up an U18 league.

 

 

Edited March 5, 2020 by Burnie_man

[BTID]

25 minutes ago, gaz5 said:

Nonsense.

We regularly have under 19's playing for our under 20's and First Team and it has been confirmed by both the SFA and the league there's no issue with this.

The SYFA can't "ban" players from playing for senior teams.

Yeh was going to say Callum’s team have moved players to 20s and they are SYFA. Great setup you have btw, we played there Friday night few months ago and what a difference since last there 10 years. You have some really talented players from that young 19s team future looks bright.

 

edit: seeing recent posts, prob have to release and re-sign them then which is just ridiculous paperwork

Edited March 5, 2020 by BTID

[Robert James]

9 hours ago, stulch said:

9 hours ago, the rambler said:

So East Region Clubs can resign from the EJRSFA and move to the EOSL quite freely.
Yet Gordon Ronney is threatening WJRSFA Clubs that want to move to the WoSFL that a clause will be invoked to provide one year's notice and won't let them go. 
I believe Kilwinning Rangers have told him they will field a youth team next season. 

What clause anyway? They have no control when they leave the Juniors.

 

Here we go again. Another threat.  As far as I can recall, this threat from the SJFA was made two years ago, but got nowhere.

"A clause will be invoked".................!!!

Retrospectively ?   Voted through (or "announced" ?) by whom -  GM & TJ ? 

Clubs won't fall for that.

[gaz5]

Yeh was going to say Callum’s team have moved players to 20s and they are SYFA. Great setup you have btw, we played there Friday night few months ago and what a difference since last there 10 years. You have some really talented players from that young 19s team future looks bright.
 
edit: seeing recent posts, prob have to release and re-sign them then which is just ridiculous paperwork

Nope, we've no issues playing them based on the information we have and have had confirmed by the LL and EoS a couple of times. Usual trialist rules apply, on terms of 3 games with permission.

At the end of the day, they're a development team.

[Marten]

1 minute ago, Robert James said:

 

Here we go again. Another threat.  As far as I can recall, this threat from the SJFA was made two years ago, but got nowhere.

"A clause will be invoked".................!!!

Retrospectively ?   Voted through (or "announced" ?) by whom -  GM & TJ ? 

Clubs won't fall for that.

It's the same boring line. Yes, as far as I know it's technically true that clubs have to give a year's notice. However, this wasn't enforced in the east and neither in the north when clubs switched to the Highland League. So it's very unlikely it would be enforced now.

Also, as said by myself and several others. Clubs can just field their first team in the WoSFL / EoSFL and put out a youth team or a even bunch of random "pub standard" amateurs in the junior leagues, which would make a mockery of the league which won't exactly be good for the remaining teams, so that's just not going to happen.

[Robert James]

2 hours ago, Born To Run said:

I don’t think we’ll get a gauge on how things lie until the WoSFL information meeting. The atmosphere in the room and attitudes of those in attendance will be telling.

My prediction of 20-30 sides moving from the West Region still stands - the same arguments were used when the exodus to the EoS happened, I haven’t heard anything different as yet.

My personal view from comments made on this forum, is that the West situation is far more toxic than it was in the East.

Therefore, it is possible that some of the West clubs who will be attending the Lowland  ("expression of interest")  meeting, may be there to 'disrupt' it.  If so, it would be very unwise, as most of the clubs who will be represented,  want to hear the facts about the proposed (senior) WoSL.

Only then can each club make its own individual decision about applying to join the pyramid, or not.  

[Hillonearth]

55 minutes ago, glensmad said:

It's interesting that the "extra General Meeting" of the West Region clubs is taking place next Tuesday, while a date hasn't yet been confirmed for the LL-WosFL information meeting. I expect that to be next week some time as well, but I'd be surprised if it is before Tuesday. Consequently, any teams who wish to keep their options open should be very careful about what (if anything) they commit to at Tuesday night's meeting.

I also note that Tuesday's meeting hasn't been called an "Extraordinary General Meeting", i.e. an EGM. It has just been termed as an "extra General Meeting". Whether that has any significance or not I don't know.

I imagine it'll be a hard-sell on the "show of support" angle.

Just on a personal level that doesn't sit well without as things stand a settled road map of the way ahead and concrete plan on how to facilitate it.

Sounds too much like a nervous Dark Ages monarch demanding oaths of fealty from all and sundry because someone's spotted a line of longships strung out along the horizon.  

 

[Burnie_man]

24 minutes ago, Marten said:

It's the same boring line. Yes, as far as I know it's technically true that clubs have to give a year's notice. However, this wasn't enforced in the east and neither in the north when clubs switched to the Highland League. So it's very unlikely it would be enforced now.

Also, as said by myself and several others. Clubs can just field their first team in the WoSFL / EoSFL and put out a youth team or a even bunch of random "pub standard" amateurs in the junior leagues, which would make a mockery of the league which won't exactly be good for the remaining teams, so that's just not going to happen.

Even if the rule applies to this (it doesn't), what do the SJFA do? ban them from the Juniors? aye ok............

[Marten]

19 minutes ago, Burnie_man said:

Even if the rule applies to this (it doesn't), what do the SJFA do? ban them from the Juniors? aye ok............

The rule has been posted on here and reading that, I think that the rule technically applies to clubs resigning. But you are right that there isn't much that can be done and obviously it hasn't been enforced in the past. Also, it could lead to quite farcical situations if clubs field a team in the juniors when they don't really want to, so there is no chance this will actually be enforced.

[energyzone]

  Here we go again. Another threat.  As far as I can recall, this threat from the SJFA was made two years ago, but got nowhere.

"A clause will be invoked".................!!!

Retrospectively ?   Voted through (or "announced" ?) by whom -  GM & TJ ? 

Clubs won't fall for that.

 

They will fall for it. The West region will try every dirty trick in the book to paint the LL as some sort of foreign (East!) invasion, threaten fines and periods of notice, and make audacious claims of £100k toilets and so on. And some clubs are so desperate to stay junior that they'll swallow it happily. Which is fine, for them. 

 

Gordon Ronney is the Kilbirnie version of pccabe. Remember his memorable claim that if Beith dropped the word "Juniors" from their name they'd no longer be the same club? Ronney is either a useful idiot for the SJFA or he really doesn't believe the lies he's telling people, and I'm not sure which is worse.

 

In reality, a move to a WOS league would mean no change for the majority of clubs but would get rid of the archaic practices of the juniors (reinstatement etc). It'd be interesting to see if any of the ex-junior clubs in the East regret the move.

 

 

 

[Burnie_man]

1 minute ago, Marten said:

The rule has been posted on here and reading that, I think that the rule technically applies to clubs resigning. But you are right that there isn't much that can be done and obviously it hasn't been enforced in the past. Also, it could lead to quite farcical situations if clubs field a team in the juniors when they don't really want to, so there is no chance this will actually be enforced.

They can't force clubs to do anything if they have resigned membership.  Do clubs who resign because they are folding/ceasing need to provide 12 months notice? It's a nonsense best ignored.

[Ginaro]

Not seen anyone from Lochee United posting recently, so here's their manager commenting on Lochore's decision to move. Fortunately others are on hand to put him right. https://www.facebook.com/lochore.welfare/posts/1905278342938166?comment_id=1905342036265130

Edited March 5, 2020 by Ginaro

[STRUTHERS]

I imagine it'll be a hard-sell on the "show of support" angle.
Just on a personal level that doesn't sit well without as things stand a settled road map of the way ahead and concrete plan on how to facilitate it.
Sounds too much like a nervous Dark Ages monarch demanding oaths of fealty from all and sundry because someone's spotted a line of longships strung out along the horizon.  
 

Clubs should wait until the President of the WRJFA & Vice President of SJFA signs it first. Shows a bit of leadership to get the ball rolling.

[Burnie_man]

16 minutes ago, Ginaro said:

Not seen anyone from Lochee United posting recently, so here's their manager commenting on Lochore's decision to move. Fortunately others are on hand to put him right. https://www.facebook.com/lochore.welfare/posts/1905278342938166?comment_id=1905342036265130

George sounds like he is being worked up the back by Larry 

[Marten]

12 minutes ago, Ginaro said:

Not seen anyone from Lochee United posting recently, so here's their manager commenting on Lochore's decision to move. Fortunately others are on hand to put him right. https://www.facebook.com/lochore.welfare/posts/1905278342938166?comment_id=1905342036265130

I've got a lot of respect for George, but he is repeating some of the myths about the EOS that have been spread in the past, like it costing a lot of money. Also, it's a bit disrespectful to EOS clubs to say that Lochee United is so much better than all of the EOS. We played Burntisland & LTHV this season in the Scottish Cup and beat them 7-0 & 5-2 respectively. The latter result was a really good one as LTHV are no mugs, but both are EOS First Division sides. We didn't play the likes of Bo'ness, Penicuick, HoB etc. And if I'm honest, the 5-2 win against LTHV flattered us somewhat as well (although we were the better team and deserved the win, I don't think the difference on the pitch was as big as the scoreline suggested).

[Inanimate Carbon Rod]

Clubs should wait until the President of the WRJFA & Vice President of SJFA signs it first. Shows a bit of leadership to get the ball rolling.

They’d need a mandate from his club to do that which doesnt exist.