Junior football, what is the future?

[santheman]

Was watching Dinner Date earlier and thought what a night it would be with Alan frae Camelon and Scottish Junior Fitba as the guests.

Would have to use paper plates and plastic forks and knives I'm guessing.

[GNU_Linux]

Was watching Dinner Date earlier and thought what a night it would be with Alan frae Camelon and Scottish Junior Fitba as the guests.
Would have to use paper plates and plastic forks and knives I'm guessing.

Nae glass either. Styrofoam cups only

[BS7]

40 minutes ago, AlanCamelonfan said:

I think that's y lowland league are ignoring everything going ahead with their plan and let them choose 

If you were the Lowland League why would you bother?

It just seems like never ending hassle, and it's not likely to end anytime soon.

[AlanCamelonfan]

6 minutes ago, BS7 said:

If you were the Lowland League why would you bother?

It just seems like never ending hassle, and it's not likely to end anytime soon.

Yeh its starting to seem that way.

[Doonhamer1969]

44 minutes ago, FairWeatherFan said:

Say last year there was no EoSFL and clubs decided to create one to enter the pyramid.

Haddington Athletic who finished 3rd in the East Premier League would have been one of the 16 teams to make up the EoS Premier. They instead finished 9th in their Conference.

Arniston Rangers finished 12th in the East Premier League. Yet they finished behind Easthouses Lily MW and Oakley United in their Conference, both of those clubs had been in the South Division the year before.

You can use the current standings to try and enforce the status quo. Or you can try and get the 16 best teams for a 2021-22 WoSFL Premier on merit instead of paper.

Eh ?

Their respective positions at the end of this West Premiership, Championship etc season were achieved on merit !

They don't suddenly become pure pish or Barcelona over the summer break !

You've provided a couple of examples, and those are fair enough on their own, but all 11 ex East SuperLeague teams got into the EoS Premier ,as expected. 

Again, a couple of outliers, eg Crossgates, but out of the 16 qualifiers for the EoS Prem,even I predicted 12 of them correctly.

I'm not about 'enforcing the status quo', far from it, I just see no need to complicate matters and-or create horrible mismatches. 

Say even more clubs than those who have so far expressed interest apply and get accepted ? 55+ for example ?

4 conferences all at the same level ?

Seems OTT to me.

[FairWeatherFan]

39 minutes ago, Doonhamer1969 said:

Eh ?

1) Their respective positions at the end of this West Premiership, Championship etc season were achieved on merit !

2) They don't suddenly become pure pish or Barcelona over the summer break !

3) 4 conferences all at the same level ?

1) Except you're applying the theory that West Region standings are greater than every other league. That's based on opinion not practice.

2) Some can. Hurlford United have gone from last year's runners up to to 12th in the standings this year as an example from the West Premiership. With non-league clubs management changes, players move on, new board member splashing the cash or stop that cashflow. All can significantly impact performance year to year.

There's also an x factor next year where there will be clubs budgeting for licencing and u20 teams and not spending as much on players. Whereas there will be clubs that don't have those concerns and can focus on just the playing side.

3) We have absolutely no idea how many clubs are going to apply and make the move. 3 Conferences worked fine, 4 Conferences could work just as well if it came to it. Top 5 in 3 Conferences and Top 4 in 4 Conferences not much difference.

[BTID]

54 minutes ago, BS7 said:

If you were the Lowland League why would you bother?

It just seems like never ending hassle, and it's not likely to end anytime soon.

Because they know there are some west clubs out there that see through the nonsense and genuinely want to progress into the new wosl.

Edited March 3, 2020 by BTID

[Inanimate Carbon Rod]

He's pure raging.....

Almost every tweet he makes is a ‘laugh’ at pnb, for someone who doesnt think too highly of its users he spends a fair bit of his time telling everyone how much they dont get to him.

[GNU_Linux]

Almost every tweet he makes is a ‘laugh’ at pnb, for someone who doesnt think too highly of its users he spends a fair bit of his time telling everyone how much they dont get to him.

Boycot & divestment campaign against PnB incoming.

[Ginaro]

Going back to how much a licence costs. Where else would you talk about only the expenditure and not the income from doing something? (e.g. you wouldn't just say we pay our players £xx,000 without also taking into account income from gates and sponsors etc).

The benefits of a licence are an annual payment from the SFA (5 figures) and at least £3k from the Scottish Cup. Also with floodlights comes the ability to keep consistent kick-off times, and play midweek to relieve fixture congestion.

Regarding different specification of floodlights - Auchinleck's are over 300 lux so will be suitable for the SPFL (same with Tranent I think) while others have gone for the 200 lux minimum.

@Doonhamer1969 the problem is if more than just one SOS team joins. What happens if it's 4 - you can't just add them onto the Premiership?

Juniorfitbasc's account is public if you want to read his ranting replies: https://twitter.com/JuniorFitbaSC/with_replies

Edited March 3, 2020 by Ginaro

[Robert James]

57 minutes ago, BS7 said:

If you were the Lowland League why would you bother?

It just seems like never ending hassle, and it's not likely to end anytime soon.

Sadly the way ahead has become tribal, driven by emotion, and not by what is best for the clubs concerned, nor for Scottish football in general.   

EXIT v REMAIN

The SLL is to hold its "expressions of interest" meeting (with approx 50 clubs apparently) in order to clarify its position/answer questions, etc, regarding the WoSL. This is a positive initiative, IMO.

whereas...

The WRJFA has NOT called an EGM, and as things stand tonight, appears to have no intention of calling a meeting with its clubs, to clarify its WRJFA version of the new league. Instead it has issued an e-mail to clubs, which apparently has been "acknowledged" by some of its management committee.  Implied legal action, is very negative, and unlikely to help the WRJFA, nor the SJFA, IMO. 

Events will take their course over the next 4 weeks. Continuing exchanges on here are unlikely to overcome "entrenched positions" to any great degree, again IMO.

[Dev]

Sadly what we have seen over three years is a rank bad show of behaviour from some who have been acting in the name of the SJFA and its' Regions.

They found that their bluff was called in the east because there was a viable alternative for clubs i.e. the East of Scotland League.

The North was held in barely concealed contempt and now it seems that this Region may be packing its' bags en-masse (we shall see).

In the west there is now a viable alternative for those clubs which have had enough, and there is nothing that can be done to halt the forthcoming exodus.

The game is over. Bye! Bye! is the message. This is so sad. 

Edited March 3, 2020 by Dev
.

[Talbot supporter]

Heard the pyramid and sjfa & new wosl will amalgamation also with the junior cup and west cup ?

[Doonhamer1969]

2 hours ago, FairWeatherFan said:

1) Except you're applying the theory that West Region standings are greater than every other league. That's based on opinion not practice.

2) Some can. Hurlford United have gone from last year's runners up to to 12th in the standings this year as an example from the West Premiership. With non-league clubs management changes, players move on, new board member splashing the cash or stop that cashflow. All can significantly impact performance year to year.

There's also an x factor next year where there will be clubs budgeting for licencing and u20 teams and not spending as much on players. Whereas there will be clubs that don't have those concerns and can focus on just the playing side.

3) We have absolutely no idea how many clubs are going to apply and make the move. 3 Conferences worked fine, 4 Conferences could work just as well if it came to it. Top 5 in 3 Conferences and Top 4 in 4 Conferences not much difference.

1.No I'm not.

Vast majority will be from WJFA.

What 'other league' are you referring to ?

2. Some can. Vast majority don't.

3.Find me another example on the planet of 4 parallel club league conferences.

 

Rewind... Repeat.

Why should the vast majority of clubs rejig to accommodate the tiny few ?

What fans of which amateur club wish to travel to see their team getting asswhupped ?

 

And PS how will it benefit Scottish football as a whole, or the best West Junior teams, to play against teams their reserve sides could beat ?

What point is there having 4 conferences to get the top 4 from each of them back into a league they are already in this year ? Might as well do it in 2020-21 instead of 2021-22. (Precedent East Super League 2017-2018 and EoS Premier 2019-2020, 75% the same teams)

Edited March 4, 2020 by Doonhamer1969

[Doonhamer1969]

2 hours ago, Ginaro said:

Going back to how much a licence costs. Where else would you talk about only the expenditure and not the income from doing something? (e.g. you wouldn't just say we pay our players £xx,000 without also taking into account income from gates and sponsors etc).

The benefits of a licence are an annual payment from the SFA (5 figures) and at least £3k from the Scottish Cup. Also with floodlights comes the ability to keep consistent kick-off times, and play midweek to relieve fixture congestion.

Regarding different specification of floodlights - Auchinleck's are over 300 lux so will be suitable for the SPFL (same with Tranent I think) while others have gone for the 200 lux minimum.

@Doonhamer1969 the problem is if more than just one SOS team joins. What happens if it's 4 - you can't just add them onto the Premiership?

Juniorfitbasc's account is public if you want to read his ranting replies: https://twitter.com/JuniorFitbaSC/with_replies

I'll eat my hat if any more than 2 current SOS teams apply for the WoS.

Somebody mentioned Mids putting in a note of interest. I find it highly unlikely they will swap 4 trips to Wigtownshire for 15 trips to the central belt, even factoring in the fact it's by motorway.

 

Edited March 4, 2020 by Doonhamer1969
Typo

[Guest]

Heard the pyramid and sjfa & new wosl will amalgamation also with the junior cup and west cup ?

I'd be surprised, there are already cops covering what the junior cup covers.

[LongTimeLurker]

5 hours ago, Talbot supporter said:

Heard the pyramid and sjfa & new wosl will amalgamation also with the junior cup and west cup ?

Unlikely to happen. We'll get more details from the LL soon as they said they would do that by the end of this week. Although the west region want to be the west feeder to the LL, the LL and EoS can veto that from happening due to the rules related to changing the playoff format to get into the LL.  It's nearly 100% certain now that the only way into the pyramid for clubs in the west will be through the new WoS division(s) that the LL are planning to launch next season.

[FairWeatherFan]

5 hours ago, Doonhamer1969 said:

1.No I'm not.

Vast majority will be from WJFA.

What 'other league' are you referring to ?

2. Some can. Vast majority don't.

3.Find me another example on the planet of 4 parallel club league conferences.

 

Rewind... Repeat.

Why should the vast majority of clubs rejig to accommodate the tiny few ?

What fans of which amateur club wish to travel to see their team getting asswhupped ?

 

And PS how will it benefit Scottish football as a whole, or the best West Junior teams, to play against teams their reserve sides could beat ?

What point is there having 4 conferences to get the top 4 from each of them back into a league they are already in this year ? Might as well do it in 2020-21 instead of 2021-22. (Precedent East Super League 2017-2018 and EoS Premier 2019-2020, 75% the same teams)

Segunda B in Spain comes to mind 4x 20 Divisions. They try to work them regionally but there's overlap and no fixed boundaries because you've got a single national division above and 18 regional divisions below.

When the Lowland League was being put together 27 official notes of interest and only 17 applications. Nobody knows who's actually applying. 

When you walk into a room with 48+ people and the question comes of what leagues are going to be. You've got a simple, clear message of:

" If we surpass the number of applicants for a single division, we'll have seeded Conferences at tier 6 that will  be used to form a 16 team WoS Premier in 2021-22"

Or some convoluted mess that has follow up questions. "Tiered divisions based on league standings. West Region down, unless you're SOS then you're tier 6."

What if only 23 clubs apply? What if? 

Ps most west region sides don't have reserves. So imaginary team beats imaginary amateur team 11-0 does nothing to Scottish football.

 

[cmontheloknow]

The LL / EoS statement MUST state the following:

1. They are the only show in town, acknowledged by the SFA, and the SFA does not and will not plan a 'Head to Head' vote at the June AGM.

2. There are no limits to applications and all applicants meeting exisiting tier 6 standards in EoS/SoS will be admitted. 

3. No rival league in a directly overlapping area will be granted access to the Pyramid Play Off into Lowland league. The precedent for this was set during PWG meetings when an East SJFA feeder was denied.

[Doonhamer1969]

6 minutes ago, FairWeatherFan said:

Segunda B in Spain comes to mind 4x 20 Divisions. They try to work them regionally but there's overlap and no fixed boundaries because you've got a single national division above and 18 regional divisions below.

When the Lowland League was being put together 27 official notes of interest and only 17 applications. Nobody knows who's actually applying. 

When you walk into a room with 48+ people and the question comes of what leagues are going to be. You've got a simple, clear message of:

" If we surpass the number of applicants for a single division, we'll have seeded Conferences at tier 6 that will  be used to form a 16 team WoS Premier in 2021-22"

Or some convoluted mess that has follow up questions. "Tiered divisions based on league standings. West Region down, unless you're SOS then you're tier 6."

What if only 23 clubs apply? What if? 

Ps most west region sides don't have reserves. So imaginary team beats imaginary amateur team 11-0 does nothing to Scottish football.

 

'Seeded teams'.....that could therefore go straight into a WoS Premier.

How will the LL seed the teams ?

By making the same 'assumption' I'm making that West Junior teams are better than amateur teams ?

There's 5 question marks in my post, therefore 5 questions, 4 you haven't answered.

PS regional leagues aren't the same as conferences.