Junior football, what is the future?

[cmontheloknow]

2 minutes ago, LongTimeLurker said:

For the sake of argument let's call them Kilbirnie.

And for the sake of argument shall we call the licenced club needing access to the WoSL Glasgow University? Of is it any of Threave / St Cuthbert / Newton as alluded to about 10 pagers / 2 hrs ago? 

[clash city rocker]

6 minutes ago, cmontheloknow said:

And for the sake of argument shall we call the licenced club needing access to the WoSL Glasgow University? Of is it any of Threave / St Cuthbert / Newton as alluded to about 10 pagers / 2 hrs ago? 

Glasgow Uni is who is being mentioned

[surely not!]

And for the sake of argument shall we call the licenced club needing access to the WoSL Glasgow University? Of is it any of Threave / St Cuthbert / Newton as alluded to about 10 pagers / 2 hrs ago? 

Belief is that the LL aren’t keen to move teams from one current LL feeder to another at this stage. If that helps [emoji6]

[timeforchange]

9 hours ago, theesel1994 said:

Ok - I'll accept it's a fake now. Why would they go from "no one is left behind" yesterday to going it alone today. This is what should have happened though.

1225 pages of uncertainty and it all stems from the top and is consistent with everything that goes on in Scottish Football from sponsorship , referees, spfl , Sfl , Compliance officers it’s time from somebody in the Sfa to take the lead and say this is the set up and this is what is happening too much in fighting and point scoring that is affecting everything that goes on in our sport. Let’s ban gambling but we need their sponsorship aye right good one . 
ladbrokes , William Hill , Bet Fred and McBookie we you all to bet but if you get caught you will get hammered . Need to say any more ?

[Guest]

1225 pages of uncertainty and it all stems from the top and is consistent with everything that goes on in Scottish Football from sponsorship , referees, spfl , Sfl , Compliance officers it’s time from somebody in the Sfa to take the lead and say this is the set up and this is what is happening too much in fighting and point scoring that is affecting everything that goes on in our sport. Let’s ban gambling but we need their sponsorship aye right good one . 
ladbrokes , William Hill , Bet Fred and McBookie we you all to bet but if you get caught you will get hammered . Need to say any more ?

So what's your point caller?

[Burnie_man]

23 hours ago, Burnie_man said:

Dear All

Pyramid

Following the Scottish Junior F.A. statement of the 14th February 2020, the West Junior F.A. would confirm their direct engagement with George Fraser Chairman of the Lowland League. A meeting was held on Wednesday 19th February where the WJFA representatives presented a number of proposals for the Lowland League to consider in order to open up further meaningful discussions in order to reach a mutually beneficial solution.

 - A rehashed option W which the WRJFA already rejected themselves when opting for option Z.

It is with bitter disappointment that we report our proposals have been rejected. We see the WJFA structure as a perfect bespoke solution to meet the Lowland League plans for the creation of a West of Scotland League which would fill the Pyramid void in the geographical West of the country.

- Well, you never saw that at the last PWG when you completely rejected that option which has been on the table for well over a year. Now all of a sudden it's a perfect solution when half your membership want to leave? laughable stuff.

Contrary to some opinion the SJFA have throughout pyramid discussions played a proactive approach within the Pyramid Working Group (PWG), we have not walked away and are always willing to re-open talks. Despite numerous agreements/statements including definitive conclusions by the Scottish FA these have failed to be followed through and released within the public domain. These will released in due course. All Junior Clubs should feel badly let down that we have yet to be included within the SFA’s blue print for “Pyramid” more especially when this had been previously agreed. This has not been the fault of the SJFA or the WJFA.

- Ah, the old "it's someone elses fault" when clearly that is complete bunkum. The SJFA have never been "pro-active" in these discussions.  "All-in or none in".  The WRJFA were never allowed to sit at PWG, and nobody from the WRJFA ever challenged that.

We have other options at our disposal and will implement these from today.

- Have you actually run these options past your member clubs? that's a pretty pertinent point. Where's the EGM to obtain approval? have the clubs even seen the proposal you presented to the LL?

We would advise all clubs that at this time they should keep their options open with regard to “Expressions of Interest”, this in no way has to be regarded as “raising the white flag”, far from it. It is to safe guard our member clubs in their desire to join the pyramid. It would be remiss of the West Junior F.A. not to advise on the foregoing.

- Have you asked your clubs for a mandate on this via an EGM?  have the SJFA called an EGM? or is the management committee turning into a loose cannon?

We can assure all member clubs that our resolve remains steadfast and that all that can be done will be done to ensure “no one is left behind”. It may be that the determination outcome lies outside the football authorities jurisdiction. A step we will consider if required to do so.

- Some of your members want to leave, others want to stay, why are you not accepting this and still banging the "all-in or none in" drum, and now you're threatening what, legal action against the SFA, seriously? dear me, someone have a word with these bozos.

West Junior F.A

Any further forward with understanding what they're trying to achieve? Beenze could maybe assist.   The questions that have arisen during the day appear to be;

- When will full details of these proposals be circulated to WRJFA clubs?

- When will the SJFA call an EGM to approve this new mandate which ignores the current mandate of SJFA structure entering intact?

- Will WRJFA clubs be called to an EGM to vote on these actions being taken by the Management Committee?

- Will the WRJFA be totally independent of the SJFA or remain a member league?

- If the answer is remain a member, will the lower divisions ie tier 7 and below remain Junior with discipline and fixtures administered by the WRJFA? will player fines remain?

- Will these lower tier clubs be eligible for club licencing and U20 Development League membership?

- How will the WRJFA accomodate the non-WRJFA clubs who want to join at tier 6 of the Pyramid?

- Will clubs relegated from Senior football be required to join the SJFA?

The clubs who have expressed interest in a new WoSFL should be hammering the WRJFA with these questions and demanding answers.

 

 

[glensmad]

There was an interesting phrase used in the WRSJFA email on Friday night, saying that they will do all the can "to ensure no one is left behind”.

Surely under the LL's plan nobody will be left behind that doesn't want to be left behind ? If you want to apply, then apply. If you don't want to apply, then don't apply.

It really is that simple.

[glensmad]

Any further forward with understanding what they're trying to achieve? Beenze could maybe assist.   The questions that have arisen during the day appear to be;
- When will full details of these proposals be circulated to WRJFA clubs?
- When will the SJFA call an EGM to approve this new mandate which ignores the current mandate of SJFA structure entering intact?
- Will WRJFA clubs be called to an EGM to vote on these actions being taken by the Management Committee?
- Will the WRJFA be totally independent of the SJFA or remain a member league?
- If the answer is remain a member, will the lower divisions ie tier 7 and below remain Junior with discipline and fixtures administered by the WRJFA? will player fines remain?
- Will these lower tier clubs be eligible for club licencing and U20 Development League membership?
- How will the WRJFA accomodate the non-WRJFA clubs who want to join at tier 6 of the Pyramid?
- Will clubs relegated from Senior football be required to join the SJFA?
The clubs who have expressed interest in a new WoSFL should be hammering the WRJFA with these questions and demanding answers.
 
 

All genuine questions which, until they are answered, the WRSJFA proposal can't move forward, in my personal opinion.

[Inanimate Carbon Rod]

All genuine questions which, until they are answered, the WRSJFA proposal can't move forward, in my personal opinion.

The SJFA proposal is too late anyway, the LL/EOSL proposal is already approved and at the SFA’s lawyers for final checks.

[theesel1994]

It looks as though the statement is having the desired effect of just causing confusion.

This from The Talbot board.

[PastyMan]

33 minutes ago, glensmad said:

There was an interesting phrase used in the WRSJFA email on Friday night, saying that they will do all the can "to ensure no one is left behind”.

Surely under the LL's plan nobody will be left behind that doesn't want to be left behind ? If you want to apply, then apply. If you don't want to apply, then don't apply.

It really is that simple.

They are arguing that teams staying Junior are "left behind". That's from the Gerald Ratner school of marketing

 

[BS7]

1 hour ago, Inanimate Carbon Rod said:

The SJFA proposal is too late anyway, the LL/EOSL proposal is already approved and at the SFA’s lawyers for final checks.

I had an interesting chat with someone last week who was of the opinion that some within the SFA want to see a fully integrated pyramid as their legacy.

 

[Cameron Wilson]

The latest developments are shameful.

Incredible really. Shows the SJFA were acting in bad faith from the beginning. There's now ample evidence to suggest they would continue to work to the detriment of Scottish football if they were involved in the pyramid.

SFA need to step up asap and make it clear the LL-backed WOS league is the only show in town, to nip this in the bud. Otherwise the JFA are going to keep embarrassing everyone by acting like an incoherent alchy refusing to leave the bar as the Titanic sinks. 

Edited March 1, 2020 by Cameron Wilson
Typo

[falkirktv]

6 hours ago, FairWeatherFan said:

WoSFL for 2020/21. Begin at Tier 6 on the SFA pyramid. Access to SFA licencing, development league. Rules and discipline in line with the SFA, with the SFA having oversight. Entry in the South Challenge Cup. League structure and cups to be decided considering the number of applicants.

What will be different from the LL/EoS version compared to the WJFA negotiated version?

Difference will be ll/eos is possible the other is like fantasy football and anyone who thins it’s real should be sectioned

[pyramidiot]

Just catching up... Beenzon-Toste is a parody account, right?

[Robert James]

3 hours ago, Inanimate Carbon Rod said:

The SJFA proposal is too late anyway, the LL/EOSL proposal is already approved and at the SFA’s lawyers for final checks.

In my opinion, unless the SFA's lawyers advise otherwise (unlikely ?), I would suggest that the proposed establishment of an independent/new West of Scotland League, continues as already announced.

On Monday next , I feel that the LL should release a statement confirming the number of "expressions of interest" they have received. The names of the individual clubs must NOT be released.

Also on Monday, the LL (jointly with the SFA ?) should  announce the date and venue for the proposed meeting with interested clubs, to discuss the new pyramid league, and its proposed constitution. I would suggest that this meeting is held sooner rather than later, given its importance, and the need to respond to questions from clubs, as to how it intends to operate.

We are now in March, and the relevant clubs need to know where they stand (officially), before either applying to join the pyramid league, or alternatively, deciding to remain with the Juniors.  

Edited March 1, 2020 by Robert James
post sent in error before completed

[Born To Run]

6 hours ago, Beenzon-Toste said:

6 hours ago, Burnie_man said:

Trying to be smart doesn't suit you.  Tier 6 in Pyramid but the rest remain Junior, with discipline and fixtures run by WRJFA, yes? player fines?
Where do non-WRJFA clubs go who want access to the Pyramid in the West under your plan?

I have no idea how it will all pan out, unlike you, I am not being fed information. The only thing I see is that a few months ago everyone was desperate for the WRSJFA to come onboard. Now we're being treated like a paedo ring at a school outing.

I think you’re being incredibly unfair there. Tone deaf, even.

Equating your “treatment” to something like that is an absolute nonsense IMO. While one of two posters are clearly anti-SJFA blazers, most want to see the best solution reached for clubs and the pyramid alike.

The WRSJFA needs to present articulate information re their proposals, and reasons why member clubs should back them ahead of the WoSFL. The Lowland and EoS have a trusted track record of clarity in setting up/extending leagues after all.

[Guest]

The situation regarding junior clubs entry into the pyramid has been a simple one to resolve since roughly 2 years ago.

 

The west is and always has been an open goal (the wrsjfa have had ample opportunity to negotiate their own terms but have chosen not to).

 

The ersjfa has and always will have to join the eosfl if it wants to be part of the pyramid set up.

 

Tayside clubs north of the line are probably the most hard done by, but the line is there for a reason and they have to go north. Those south of the line come south and join the eosfl.

 

The sjfa have not been able to negotiate because they have continually entered negotiations wishing to be treated as the only show in town. 10 years ago this may have been stomached because 10 years ago the junior had a stronger case to say they were.

 

Right now junior football is not the only show in town, the LL, HL, sosfl and eosfl have worked hard to better their individual and collective products and are 100% correct to have walked away from negotiations given how they have went.

 

What is now clear is that the sjfa, and its individual regions, will do whatever it takes to keep what they have, regardless of its detrimental effect on their own membership.

 

This displays that they havent entered into negotiations in good faith and will not be happy until they get the pyramid set up the sjfa want, without any consideration given to other clubs, other associations and the pyramid structure itself.

 

It's becoming more hassle than it's worth to have the juniors as part of the pyramid. If this were a business deal I'm pretty confident the other parties would have walked away and not even considered setting a new venture up.

 

The wrsjfa are currently forgetting that the LL have to ratify any new league under their own. Bypassing the LL straight to the sfa literally makes zero difference. The LL will still decide what league they acknowledge and which one(s) they dont

 

 

[Killiepiyo]

Can supporters submit interest on behalf of their club? Had a look and as far as I can see all I would need is an email address?

[glensmad]

Can supporters submit interest on behalf of their club? Had a look and as far as I can see all I would need is an email address?

I wouldn't worry, your club is already in the loop. [emoji6]