Junior football, what is the future?

[Darvel_Marvel]

Forgetting bringing facilities into the 20th century, unless the player budget is what you were spending a few years ago, that has gone up surely?

Won’t be far away, the current playing mix this season is as follows - 10 were playing amateur last year, 5 were junior and 5 were senior. But your right I would imagine it would go up when we strengthen again in the summer for moving up a level [emoji106]

[Gordon EF]

Must be some puggy Darvel have in that social club.

[Darvel_Marvel]

Must be some puggy Darvel have in that social club.

One of they £25 jackpots it is with the 3 hold function, press start and collect at same time to activate double jackpot [emoji620] [emoji808]️[emoji638][emoji736]

[Burnie_man]

2 hours ago, cmontheloknow said:

I think there's a bit of a 'no fans, must be cack' POV from some less informed. BSC have a squad littered with decent ex Juniors and would be right up there in our division.

With regards to BSC, I guess the questions revolve around how they can build such a squad and hire Alloa on such relatively small crowds.

Maybe that ties in with TFW's point above.

[The Ilford Drummer]

Must admit I expected to see an attempted rescue plan by the juniors by now.

[AlanCamelonfan]

What is the future of junior football? Could be auchinleck being in a league with all the lower league teams winning 13-0 like the south of scotland league  

Or if they go the junior cup final could be lugar vs boness reserves. That's the future

[glensmad]

13 minutes ago, The Ilford Drummer said:

Must admit I expected to see an attempted rescue plan by the juniors by now.

I expect that things are happening in the background, but if there had been a material change of circumstances or stance by any party then we would likely have heard about it by now.

[Burnie_man]

9 minutes ago, AlanCamelonfan said:

Or if they go the junior cup final could be lugar vs boness reserves. That's the future

.....at Rugby Park in June.

[Burnie_man]

12 minutes ago, glensmad said:

I expect that things are happening in the background, but if there had been a material change of circumstances or stance by any party then we would likely have heard about it by now.

Talks over succulent lamb?  I think the next thing you'll hear is the LL opening up to formal applications for the WoSFL next week.

[AsimButtHitsASix]

On ‎22‎/‎02‎/‎2020 at 22:50, Che Dail said:

There are 5 small countries.  4 qualify for world tournaments, 1 does not.  the successful 4 countries structure their league football one way, the unsuccessful country structures it another way, how it's 'aye been'.

This could be a coincidence, and the way football is structured could have nothing to do with it, which seems to be your point of view.  I beg to differ.   

There is a reason FIFA promotes the pyramid structure, and it evidently works.  

ETA: I'm a boring statto at times and the following has nothing to do with the future of the juniors. Feel free to skip

I realise the conversation may have moved on from this nonsense but I like looking up stats to kill time at work so made a list of the ten countries closest to Scotland in terms of population: Bosnia, Georgie, Croatia, Ireland, Norway, Slovenia, Finland, Denmark, Serbia and Bulgaria. None of these ten countries have four national leagues before splitting regionally but that's a bit immaterial. What's more important is the number of clubs they have before regional splits.

Bosnia's only national division is their top tier which has an average attendance of 1,793. This is the highest average attendance before any of the eleven nations goes regional. In return their national team is higher ranked than Scotland's but their league system is not. It's a bit of a red herring as about half of their regular squad players (+25 caps and included in last squad) actually came through youth systems outside Bosnia due to the Bosnian diaspora caused by the Yugoslav war. Of the ones remaining the vast majority all came through the same club: Zelicnicar. Because of their league system being an outlier and the different way in which their national team has brought players through they can be discounted.

Of the nine remaining they all do a regional split (or their league system ends) after two national leagues. Scotland, with 42 "national" clubs has more than the next closest (Norway, Serbia and Bulgaria all have 32). Georgia and Ireland only has 20 with the rest in the middle.

Speaking, again, of outliers, Finland and Norway have population densities of 14 and 16 people per km squared. Scotland is sitting about average on 68. Having national league systems for such scattered populations in such large countries is probably impossible when you reach the level/crowds in these countries so we're discounting them as well. For what it's worth Norway's last national tier has average attendances of 1,444 and Finland's has 885. There is a HUGE drop off in attendances below this. It is possible to get from  Inverness to Dumfries and back in a day. It is just not possible to get from the main, southern, population centres of these countries to the main northern population centres in the same time frame.

So of the seven remaining only one has a higher co-efficient than Scotland and that's Denmark who also have a higher ranked national team. They have a higher population density in comparison (135) but they also have a strange geography with an island being the main population centre and it makes geographic sense, especially back when the Danish league was created, to split it along these lines. Denmark's 2nd tier has an average attendance of 1,346 but, again, there's a huge drop off to third tier with average attendances around 348.

Aside from Denmark the only other nations with a higher international ranking are Ireland and Croatia. Ireland are, again, an outlier like Bosnia as not a single one of their squad players came through the Irish league system. For what it's worth Ireland's lowest national tier has an average attendance of 488. Croatia's lowest tier is 443 but, as previously mentioned, they have a strange geography which makes a national league system at the level below impossible. Like Bosnia and Ireland the also have players who came through in foreign nations or through one exceptional youth system at Dinamo Zagreb.

Now, with the lowest national tier average attendance in brackets, that leaves Georgia (407), Slovenia (277), Serbia (620) and Bulgaria (271) who, according to UEFA, have a lower standard national team and national league who we can make a direct comparison with Scotland with. Ireland (488) and Croatia (443)  have a better national team but it is little to do with their league system which ranked lower than ours. Only Denmark (1,346) can claim to be the better of Scotland when making reasonable comparisons to country size and geography and even that is at a stretch considering the maritime geography of the place.

The truth is only Denmark, of those nations, possibly have the ability to extend their national league system. Poor crowds, geography and population density just make it impossible for those we can compare ourselves to by population. Our lowest national tier has average attendance of 497 which is the lower end of the scale across Europe but not noticeably so. It's probably the same figure Denmark would have if their better 3rd tier teams had a national league and the better supported clubs gravitated toward it. Also, of the eleven nations mentioned, Scoland has, comfortably, the highest average attendance in their national league system.

If you want to compare us with anyone the only possible comparison is Denmark really. Now you need to prove their better record in UEFA competition and in international competition is because players don't travel from Aalborg to Copenhagen twice a year in the third division.

Edited February 24, 2020 by AsimButtHitsASix

[Junior Pub League]

Get this  SPFL / other country pish in the relevant threads ffs.

[Born To Run]

58 minutes ago, Burnie_man said:

Talks over succulent lamb?  I think the next thing you'll hear is the LL opening up to formal applications for the WoSFL next week.

As I understand it, that’ll be the plan. Don’t expect any public confirmation on numbers of clubs interested or on applicants as they happen - that’ll most likely be left to the clubs themselves to share.

[Nikos K]

1 hour ago, glensmad said:

I expect that things are happening in the background, but if there had been a material change of circumstances or stance by any party then we would likely have heard about it by now.

What like the president of the west region and another committee member meeting up with someone  last week to say sorry we made a mistake can you now present option w to the non existent PWG because we need our jobs and all our teams in. We bit of a conflict there for at least one of them at the meeting!!

As I have no allegiance to any junior team I find the whole thing strange and laughable at the same time, you have to ask yourself if these teams that have shown an interest are really serious or is it just a game to committee members? 

Edited February 24, 2020 by Nikos K

[AsimButtHitsASix]

I'm getting a bit lost going through all the pages and the daft chat about us beating Brazil if only Elgin never played outside Moray. So I have a few questions I would like answered if you would all be so kind

1- I've saw folk mention SoS and EoS teams applying for a new WoS. Is this just pure speculation or is there rumour going round about this? Who are the clubs being mentioned
2- Likewise I saw Drumchapel were an amateur team who declared interest but is there any other interest from any other ammies? I presume Glasgow Uni would be in there
3- If the North Region and NCL are in talks for a Highland pyramid would this be more likely to see see Tayside clubs join the North Region or have three feeder leagues with a Tayside League inserted in?
4- Have any junior clubs came out with a very clear and adamant "no" to going senior already?
5- Has there been anything from the SJFA at all in the last week or so? Seems like radio silence to me.
 

[Burnie_man]

33 minutes ago, Born To Run said:

As I understand it, that’ll be the plan. Don’t expect any public confirmation on numbers of clubs interested or on applicants as they happen - that’ll most likely be left to the clubs themselves to share.

That's how the EoS deal with it, upto the clubs themselves to make it public if they want, otherwise you'll find out after they have been formally accepted.  

[Deanburn Dave]

,........with the reduced number of teams participating they could squeeze it in before Christmas.

.....at Rugby Park in June.

[Burnie_man]

33 minutes ago, Nikos K said:

What like the president of the west region and another committee member meeting up with someone  last week to say sorry we made a mistake can you now present option w to the non existent PWG because we need our jobs and all our teams in. We bit of a conflict there for at least one of them at the meeting!!

As I have no allegiance to any junior team I find the whole thing strange and laughable at the same time, you have to ask yourself if these teams that have shown an interest are really serious or is it just a game to committee members? 

Was it succulent lamb, or burger and chips?

[Nikos K]

Probably burger and chips

[stulch]

Probably burger and chips [emoji6][emoji6]

Definitely in a plastic bag...

[Inanimate Carbon Rod]

What like the president of the west region and another committee member meeting up with someone  last week to say sorry we made a mistake can you now present option w to the non existent PWG because we need our jobs and all our teams in. We bit of a conflict there for at least one of them at the meeting!!
As I have no allegiance to any junior team I find the whole thing strange and laughable at the same time, you have to ask yourself if these teams that have shown an interest are really serious or is it just a game to committee members? 

Ive heard there were secret meetings but I can’t imagine Clydebank’s board will be terribly chuffed if one of them has gone rogue, needs confirmation? Had been told the last ditch attempt failed anyway.