Junior football, what is the future?

[San Starko Rover]

Auchinleck see themselves as special within the junior game and fair enough maybe they are. I'm sure they see moving to the seniors as taking that away.

No they’re not anymore special than any other club, what they are is a well run community club who have a very hard working board and have become the dominant force in the Juniors pyramid which is a very good achievement they should be applauded for.

They’re in no rush to lead the charge to join the pyramid as they can really only lose by joining. At present they win trophies most seasons and any season they don’t sees them battling for the league or a cup final this in turn brings fans out as like every club, fans come out for a winning team.

If they join a WOSFL they’ll get promoted for the first few seasons and could go as high as league 1 however they cannot become a dominant force due to their size and the greatest they could realistically achieve is to emulate Brechin when they relegated ourselves in the playoff to become a Championship club.

The problem for them is once they go up they’ll inevitably find a level that is beyond them and the gap is too big to bridge that will then see seasons of defeats and relegations and they’ll become another “also ran club” Once they find their level they’ll like the rest of us see a couple of trophies a decade if they’re lucky and their fan base will probably reduce while they sit mid-table in league 1, league 2 or the Lowland League.

This isn’t a go at Talbot as their board do a fantastic job and at present the SJFA with access to the Scottish cup works well for them but the reality is they’ll probably lose due to the pyramid and will be between a rock and a hard place if the other clubs go. You can’t dominate any level of a pyramid except the top as you’ll move up and down it, only Celtic and Rangers will ever consistently win trophies.

Stay Junior and the competition will be weaker and they’ll start to lose players to WOSFL clubs, go Senior and become an “also ran club”

[jimbaxters]

10 minutes ago, San Starko Rover said:

 

No they’re not anymore special than any other club, what they are is a well run community club who have a very hard working board and have become the dominant force in the Juniors pyramid which is a very good achievement they should be applauded for.

They’re in no rush to lead the charge to join the pyramid as they can really only lose by joining. At present they win trophies most seasons and any season they don’t sees them battling for the league or a cup final this in turn brings fans out as like every club, fans come out for a winning team.

If they join a WOSFL they’ll get promoted for the first few seasons and could go as high as league 1 however they cannot become a dominant force due to their size and the greatest they could realistically achieve is to emulate Brechin when they relegated ourselves in the playoff to become a Championship club.

The problem for them is once they go up they’ll inevitably find a level that is beyond them and the gap is too big to bridge that will then see seasons of defeats and relegations and they’ll become another “also ran club” Once they find their level they’ll like the rest of us see a couple of trophies a decade if they’re lucky and their fan base will probably reduce while they sit mid-table in league 1, league 2 or the Lowland League.

This isn’t a go at Talbot as their board do a fantastic job and at present the SJFA with access to the Scottish cup works well for them but the reality is they’ll probably lose due to the pyramid and will be between a rock and a hard place if the other clubs go. You can’t dominate any level of a pyramid except the top as you’ll move up and down it, only Celtic and Rangers will ever consistently win trophies.

Stay Junior and the competition will be weaker and they’ll start to lose players to WOSFL clubs, go Senior and become an “also ran club”

 

This. That's all.

[Sancho Panza]

30 minutes ago, jimbaxters said:

This. That's all.

Win the league ever year, get beat in the play offs, things stay the same

[Pyramidic]

Are there any WRJFA and ERJFA clubs that have already firmly fixed their flag to the SJFA mast and will definitely not move to the Pyramid for 2020/21 under any circumstances?

Do St. Anthony's currently fall within this category? Are they the only ones?

[AsimButtHitsASix]

4 minutes ago, Sancho Panza said:

Win the league ever year, get beat in the play offs, things stay the same

Ah. The "Brora method"

[glensmad]

12 minutes ago, Sancho Panza said:

Win the league ever year, get beat in the play offs, things stay the same

Or don't bother getting a licence, same outcome. 

[GNU_Linux]

The SFA have told the SJFA that they are on their own, I believe feedback was also given to them that the "all-in" approach and failure to bring individual Regions around the table was the main reason for failure.

Assume this was at the management meeting on Thursday?

[glensmad]

13 minutes ago, Pyramidic said:

Are there any WRJFA and ERJFA clubs that have already firmly fixed their flag to the SJFA mast and will definitely not move to the Pyramid for 2020/21 under any circumstances?

Do St. Anthony's currently fall within this category? Are they the only ones?

The SJFA are still actively trying to get access to the pyramid for 2020/21, so in the unlikely event that the LL relent and let the West Region SJFA in as one then any club who doesn't want to move to the pyramid will get it anyway. Not that it would change anything for them in any way if that unlikely event happened.

[San Starko Rover]

Win the league ever year, get beat in the play offs, things stay the same [emoji4]

[emoji23] l like that outside the box thinking there.

[Dev]

2 hours ago, Sancho Panza said:

Just can't get my head round the fact that the SFA appear to be blameless in this fiasco.

But, looking ahead to the future, whether Junior or Senior, it's time to try to move on from that?

It would be good if a club such as yours chose to open up the chance to play each season in the Scottish Cup etc. They would be missed by the others which are thought to be moving.

[Pyramidic]

2 minutes ago, glensmad said:

The SJFA are still actively trying to get access to the pyramid for 2020/21,.....

What "cunning plan" is TJ now going to deliver that we have not seen before.  Is it all bluster designed to mislead, misdirect and create further false hopes?

[Burnie_man]

2 minutes ago, glensmad said:

The SJFA are still actively trying to get access to the pyramid for 2020/21, so in the unlikely event that the LL relent and let the West Region SJFA in as one then any club who doesn't want to move to the pyramid will get it anyway. Not that it would change anything for them in any way if that unlikely event happened.

Probably more chance of Brexit being reversed!

The LL know there are no obstacles to setting-up the WoSFL, it's a free hit and work continues on it. There's been plenty of interest as we've seen.

The SJFA have no cards left to play other than to try and sook up to the LL and hope they somehow change their mind.  See first sentence.  It's too late.

[Burnie_man]

8 minutes ago, GNU_Linux said:

Assume this was at the management meeting on Thursday?

Yes.

[Burnie_man]

4 minutes ago, Pyramidic said:

What "cunning plan" is TJ now going to deliver that we have not seen before.  Is it all bluster designed to mislead, misdirect and create further false hopes?

He should now be planning the way forward for next season.  There will still be a WRJFA and ERJFA, and potentially still an intact NRJFA.

[theesel1994]

2 minutes ago, Burnie_man said:

Yes.

I don't suppose you've kept a note of relevant dates/meetings/statements.

As far as I can see there's been a statement from LL/EoSL on the 7th and 12th February - but nothing in response publicly from WRSJFA/SJFA. I'm trying to collate a timeline of events and you seem to be on the ball with these things.

[Dev]

29 minutes ago, Pyramidic said:

Are there any WRJFA and ERJFA clubs that have already firmly fixed their flag to the SJFA mast and will definitely not move to the Pyramid for 2020/21 under any circumstances?

Do St. Anthony's currently fall within this category? Are they the only ones?

Their post made it clear that they favour the Pyramid. Would they move if the whole of the West Region didn't move?

[Dev]

19 minutes ago, glensmad said:

Or don't bother getting a licence, same outcome. 

and, again, lose Scottish Cup entry and money.

[Cornishman]

21 hours ago, Duraglit shareholder said:

Most comments suggest Talbot have outgrown the juniors, and within a few years probably could reach league two, for me thats when the problems  begin.I myself would have to stop watching Talbot playing away games, due to the increase in travel costs, ticket price and the sheer amount of travel north to teams in that league.We would lose the mantra of being the best junior club in Scotland, the history of all the junior cup wins would become a footnote that doesnt matter anymore and so  on.Change is coming, but im sure if supporters of other junior teams that advocate the pyramid had the success similar to Talbots, would like to hold on to it as long as possible.

I'd like to counterpoint this, if I may?

As my name implies, I'm a sassenach, but I am familially connected in the deep past with the Gordons [Clan] of Huntly. My first and foremost love in fitba is Yeovil Town FC (Somerset), presently plying trade in the English National League Premier. YTFC had been playing in the EFL since 2003, even managing one season in The Championship before returning from whence they came at the end of last season.

The Glovers (their nickname, the club having long been associated with the local Petter's glovemakers - they used to be named 'Yeovil & Petter's United FC' - were; before 2003; best known as 'The Non-League Giantkillers' and despite having put themselves up for election to the FL 26 times between 1946 and 1976, had never succeeded in attaining acceptance into that august body. They had enjoyed decades of being acknowledged as the unofficial 'Kings of the Non-League game'... which all changed in May 2003. They won The Football Conference and thus direct promotion into the EFL. 

The point I'm making is that I see among many Talbot people the very same qualms and trepidation that we Glovers' supporters entertained back in 2003. Getting 'ripped out' of our safe-haven and comfort zone, our giantkilling epithet being sacrificed - and all for what? Well, looking at where we are this season 'nothing' might be a tempting answer! However, in sixteen years we've been given one helluva roller-coaster ride... would I swap it for the auld status quo? Never in a million years! Even if it continues downhill from here, no-one can take away the awful lows and fantastic highs of our journey. It's recommended!

[Marten]

Win the league ever year, get beat in the play offs, things stay the same [emoji4]

Imagine that the East champions aren't licensed while the West and South ones are but neither wants to get promoted and both try to deliberately lose the play-off. That could be quite an amusing tie for spectators. [emoji23]

[Burnie_man]

4 minutes ago, theesel1994 said:

I don't suppose you've kept a note of relevant dates/meetings/statements.

As far as I can see there's been a statement from LL/EoSL on the 7th and 12th February - but nothing in response publicly from WRSJFA/SJFA. I'm trying to collate a timeline of events and you seem to be on the ball with these things.

I don't I'm afraid, I just pass on info that I'm able to.