Junior football, what is the future?

[theesel1994]

21 minutes ago, LongTimeLurker said:

Poll was retweeted by Kilwinning, Irvine Meadow, Kilbirnie, Girvan, Irvine Vics, Thorniewood, Yoker, Annbank, Rossvale and Ardrossan Winton Rovers' academy.

Interesting Winton Rovers Academy in among them. They are a club that I don't know if are interested but definitely should be.

Yoker as well - interesting if Clydebank go and they stay.

[Marshmallo]

1 minute ago, Jacksgranda said:

What is this fascination with a "grade"? I don't see Buckie Thistle, Fraserburgh or Lossiemouth fans, foe example, going on about the Highland League in those terms. And the Highland League has been on the go for 126 years.

There is a conflation of the terms "Junior" and "non league". People think that if their clubs go "senior" it won't be non league any more. They will be sitting in a plastic seat after a 4 hour bus journey every week and paying 25 quid for the privilege. 

[AT4EVA]

No ill will towards Talbot as they are a fantastically well run Community Club, it is merely a big fish in a small pool scenario. Celtic supporters would likewise panic if they were invited to a European Super League due to the drubbings that would follow, only Uncle Peters bank balance would benefit from such a thing.

Not sure regarding the 'Big Fish' comparison. The population of Auchinleck is substantially smaller than many surrounding towns. Talbot achievements are not down to weight of numbers or financial backing like a Celtic or Rangers. It down to being a well run club, with a connection to the community that many people do not understand.

As for getting hammered, I've seen Talbot dismantle Camelon , Dundonald and high flying Kelty at their own ground. Quite frankly thought standard was poor. Why would we move to an inferior standard.

Keep chasing your dreams and trying to turn your clubs into something their infrastructure or support can't match.

[Guest]

On a Tuesday

There is a conflation of the terms "Junior" and "non league". People think that if their clubs go "senior" it won't be non league any more. They will be sitting in a plastic seat after a 4 hour bus journey every week and paying 25 quid for the privilege. 

[andy25]

[emoji846]

There are currently 2 players left from the squad from the junior days. Add in the new facility, the better standard of league and better overall prospects for players joining the club, then it absolutely doesn't say more about the standard of the leagues. The league the club play in now is of a far greater level than the one it left.

Your view is a particularly narrow one.

The players now playing for the club wouldn't have even considered playing for it if it had stayed in the juniors.

But there are those who will continue to stick their head in the sand and portray the eos as a poor standard, and the LL, and regurgitate that the juniors is far better by comparison.....[emoji85]

[Marshmallo]

I'll also add that people use the grade split to justify supporting two teams. They have their junior club and their senior club. Similar to people having an English club.

[GordonS]

9 minutes ago, southerner said:

Why is your question only “semi serious”

 

Here is a serious reply.

 

Auchinleck as a community have had great benefit of being part of the junior grade. There is a sense of pride of what has been achieved. Don’t think there is anything wrong with being loyal to a grade of football that is unique and has been embedded in an areas culture for years. The irony is that Auchinleck as a club are light years ahead of the majority of the aspirational clubs craving to leave junior football and a lot of the clubs who have already left. This is both on and off the pitch. Another point I make is that it’s unclear at the moment what route the club will take, and probably the feelings will be mixed between supporters and still up for debate over the next few weeks. I also think it’s ironic that the word “blinkered” is being used as that could be pointed at both sides of the debate.

 

You're right, Auchinleck are a special club, because of what they've achieved coming from a small town. But from a not-much-bigger town, Brechin recently played in the second tier of Scottish football. Auchinleck could have done that. It's not the Juniors that make Auchinleck special, it's the dedication of the people and its connection to its community.

I've been to a lot of grounds and watched a lot of matches all over Scotland, and there's nothing you can say about how much Darvel or Carluke or Kilsyth are community clubs than isn't exactly the same at Dalbeattie or Spartans or Whitehill Welfare. The grade has literally nothing to do with the extent that it's community football - it's the level and the culture of the club that does that.

I can understand that folk don't regard some of the clubs in the seniors as "community" clubs, but for the most part that's unfair or untrue, as you'd see if you attended their games. And even then, deride Caledonian Braves if you like but they've come from nowhere to be better than almost all the teams in the Juniors. 

[GordonS]

5 minutes ago, AT4EVA said:

As for getting hammered, I've seen Talbot dismantle Camelon , Dundonald and high flying Kelty at their own ground. Quite frankly thought standard was poor. Why would we move to an inferior standard.
 

The Scottish Premiership is an inferior standard, not good enough for Auchinleck Talbot?

Moving to the seniors means finding your level. It doesn't mean being in the East of Scotland Premier League, as two of the three clubs you mention are. If you're too good for the LL then great, you'll soon go through it, as Bonnyrigg may this season. You'll find your peers and play teams at your level.

Or you can hide in a bubble and pretend to be better, while getting knocked out of the Scottish Cup by Cumbernauld Colts.

[.Stuart.]

9 minutes ago, Marshmallo said:

There is a conflation of the terms "Junior" and "non league". People think that if their clubs go "senior" it won't be non league any more. They will be sitting in a plastic seat after a 4 hour bus journey every week and paying 25 quid for the privilege. 

Also we’d have to play Elgin and Peterhead on alternate Tuesdays in the rain.

[parsforlife]

20 minutes ago, southerner said:

. Don’t think there is anything wrong with being loyal to a grade of football that is unique
 

 

This keeps getting brought up. How is it unique?  I doubt you feel loyal to fining players for example which is one of the biggest differences, and it sure isn’t the football on the pitch that’s different. What is it that sets the juniors apart?

[southerner]

Why is it ironic that clubs behind Auchinleck on and off the pitch want to enter the pyramid and have a chance to improve themselves as clubs and have a chance to progress?  

The point I was making is that Auchinleck are being accused of being unambitious by others and I can assure you they are far from that.

[Robert James]

1 hour ago, Whitburn Vale said:

Theres a meeting soon between the HFL,NCL and NRJFA with the agenda about setting up a pyramid below the HFL.

Not sure if it's for the start of next season or 21/22.

The HFL & NCL have been positive about the pyramid being extended into the North of Scotland, in initial discussions which took place during 2019, and also earlier this year.  As I have stated in some earlier posts on this Forum, the NRJFA/clubs appear to have  been reconsidering their position about joining the pyramid (?).

I understand that whilst this his is not yet a done deal, I would anticipate some further pyramid developments at the forthcoming meeting.

Hence, 2020/21 isn't entirely out of the question, as unlike the East & West Regions, there is no current direct ('boundary') overlap between the location of  the North Juniors, and the North Caley clubs. The geography (and weather conditions) of this vast area, means that there is no practical way in which these two areas, could operate as an integrated pyramid league.

As separate (Tier 6)  leagues, a play-off system for their respective champion clubs would be required . However with only one SFA club** currently licensed in each league, a north pyramid structure will take time to evolve . It would, at least provide a northern pyramid pathway for the future, probably agreed without rancour between the juniors and the seniors. That alone, is very good news.

**FOOTNOTE  :   Banks O'Dee (North Juniors) and Golspie Sutherland (NCL)

[stanley]

6 minutes ago, Marshmallo said:

I'll also add that people use the grade split to justify supporting two teams. They have their junior club and their senior club. Similar to people having an English club.

People still do that in England with having a league team and a non-league team despite them all being in the same system.

[Marten]

1 minute ago, GordonS said:

You're right, Auchinleck are a special club, because of what they've achieved coming from a small town. But from a not-much-bigger town, Brechin recently played in the second tier of Scottish football. Auchinleck could have done that. It's not the Juniors that make Auchinleck special, it's the dedication of the people and its connection to its community.

I've been to a lot of grounds and watched a lot of matches all over Scotland, and there's nothing you can say about how much Darvel or Carluke or Kilsyth are community clubs than isn't exactly the same at Dalbeattie or Spartans or Whitehill Welfare. The grade has literally nothing to do with the extent that it's community football - it's the level and the culture of the club that does that.

I can understand that folk don't regard some of the clubs in the seniors as "community" clubs, but for the most part that's unfair or untrue, as you'd see if you attended their games. And even then, deride Caledonian Braves if you like but they've come from nowhere to be better than almost all the teams in the Juniors. 

This is exactly why this artificial divide in non-league football is damaging. There is too much of an "us vs them" attitude. I've been to plenty of junior games, visiting various well-run community clubs with quite a few impressive set-ups. But then I've also seen the same in the Highland League, Lowland League, EOS and in some island amateur leagues. The biggest problem is when there are people who act like their grade is "superior" to others. The principle is the same everywhere regardless of grade, 22 players on a pitch, community clubs, hard working volunteers. Junior fans on here deriding the LL & EOS isn't helpful and I see that far too often. The same happens the other way around and neither is good.

It can only be beneficial to all to have all strongest non-league clubs together. And at a lower level (then I'm especially talking about the East) there can be more local football instead of less when (for example) the different Fife / West Lothian clubs are all together in the same system.

[Talbot supporter]

I think Talbot will move out of junior fitba eventually, its inevitable. Once other clubs start to leave Talbot will have no option but to follow suit if it doesn't happen this year it will be next year. Just my opinion. I think the wosl could be a good league and a non league Scottish cup could be a great competition.

[parsforlife]

2 minutes ago, stanley said:

People still do that in England with having a league team and a non-league team despite them all being in the same system.

When I lived in Bristol there were people that had a ‘big team’ and supported one of the city clubs.

[southerner]

This keeps getting brought up. How is it unique?  I doubt you feel loyal to fining players for example which is one of the biggest differences, and it sure isn’t the football on the pitch that’s different. What is it that sets the juniors apart?

Probably you get a better standard of player at the top clubs as opposed the League 2 as they are playing for cups that means something to communities on a regular basis. That eye on the prize which gives a real sense of passion and fight for the jersey. That’s what the juniors is all about for me anyway.

[Marshmallo]

2 minutes ago, southerner said:

Probably you get a better standard of player at the top clubs as opposed the League 2 as they are playing for cups that means something to communities on a regular basis. That eye on the prize which gives a real sense of passion and fight for the jersey. That’s what the juniors is all about for me anyway.

Why is this not the case for sides playing in the East of Scotland league?

[GordonS]

All the talk of the superiority of the grade made me hunt out one of the first things I posted on PnB - this paean to the Juniors. I only started following a non-league team when I moved to Linlithgow in 2000, and only really got into it about 2008. I absolutely bloody loved it, and I thought it was the Juniors that I loved. But in the replies to my post a lot of folk pointed out that what I was saying about the Juniors was really about non-league football, and they were right. Being in a separate structure had nothing to do with it, it was about clubs that were run by volunteers and supported by their local communities, charging affordable prices and trying to field a football team to make the supporters proud. Following the discussion on here, and attending lots of senior non-league games, made me realise that. 

 

[Gordon EF]

Auchinleck see themselves as special within the junior game and fair enough maybe they are. I'm sure they see moving to the seniors as taking that away.