Cyclizine Posted February 13, 2020 Share Posted February 13, 2020 23 minutes ago, ShrimpLok said: While Cromdale is in Highland these days if going with pre 1975 counties (as per the maps earlier in the thread) then it was in Elginshire before reorganisation. And Inverness-shire before that... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 13, 2020 Share Posted February 13, 2020 Re: dividing lines for Fauldhouse/Bonnyton/Kello (and possible others) it is not anywhere near the issue it is for North of the Tay clubs in the EoS. It'd be farcical for, say, Lochee to win the EoS Premier and get promoted to the HL. The destination is the same for these clubs: the LL. So the odd outlier wouldn't be the end of the world. England managed it for years with Southern/Isthmian leagues. Bit of a non story really. If hard borders were put in place in future you could let clubs remain in their league until promotion/relegation to/from the LL decides their fate but that's a long way offArgh....we arent in England. There is no need for a soft central line where clubs can float between. The adjustment will come from the leagues below not to the side on another association. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 13, 2020 Share Posted February 13, 2020 If the WoS is in place for next season, I’d be very surprised not to see two automatic relegation spots in the Lowland. With three feeder leagues, there can’t realistically be one relegation spot.There aren't any west clubs licensed and wint be until next june at the earliest, the cut off is february or March to get to the LL. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmontheloknow Posted February 13, 2020 Share Posted February 13, 2020 8 hours ago, San Starko Rover said: Thanks for the update, hadn’t heard anything about Pollok but I’m assuming by your username you’d know on that one As I said, LIFTED from above, ie someone else's post. Have heard nothing at all. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert James Posted February 13, 2020 Share Posted February 13, 2020 9 hours ago, Pyramidic said: We should eventually have a 16 team WOSFL Premier and a 16 team EOSFL Premier with two LL promotion places at stake for the respective winners of each league. Let us say Caledonian Braves and Cumbernauld Colts get relegated from the LL. We will then have a situation of 17 teams in the WOSFL Premier and 15 teams in the EOSFL Premier. We can equalise the situation by refusing a promotion place in the WOSFL Div 1 (creating huge discontent) and creating an additional promotion place from EOSFL Div 1 (creating huge celebration). Much fairer to move a club from WOSFL Premier margins to the EOSFL Premier (as they would in the English Pyramid). I think we need the wisdom of Hibeejeebee on this one. Perhaps not a fair comparison with Scotland, but the English pyramid has "oscillation" (at the margins) for all pro/semi-pro levels 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marten Posted February 13, 2020 Share Posted February 13, 2020 (edited) 7 hours ago, GordonS said: On Fauldhouse, I don't think sorting the missing piece in development of the non-league football in Scotland should be side-tracked over one club. Equally, I don't understand how there can be strong feelings either way. The West Lothian boundary is just a line on a map, it's hardly the Rubicon. The ground is about two miles from the boundary. Who cares? And how many people in West Lothian have ever even been to Fauldhouse? It's hardly the Temple Mount of our people. Having lines is useful but a mile here or there makes no difference. It's the end of the world if a team from just outside Lanarkshire play in the West of Scotland Football League, but it's fine for the East of Scotland Football League to have a member that's not even from Scotland? Anyway. Trivia. The holy grail is almost in our grasp so let's get this done and sort out the marginal cases later. Good luck to everyone. Tbh, it's crazy anyway to have this many pages of debate about a club who just said they are exploring all options and only might end up applying to the WoSFL. They might still end up deciding to apply to the EoSFL or remain junior... Edited February 13, 2020 by Marten 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LongTimeLurker Posted February 13, 2020 Share Posted February 13, 2020 5 hours ago, ArabAuslander said: I think that puts Fauldhouse in the Confirmed category. Think it will only be confirmed one way or the other after they have their meeting. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert James Posted February 13, 2020 Share Posted February 13, 2020 8 hours ago, southerner said: Think a bit more respect should be shown to any clubs who decide to stay in their current grade, we live in a world with freedom of choice. I’m sure clubs will also be consulting with fans before making some big decisions. Talbot and Glenafton getting some pelters for supporting a potential other outcome. Change is coming and could be exciting times ahead and opportunities for clubs irrespective of what they decide as it could also open doors for clubs at various levels. A good post. Although I am a strong supporter of the need for an independent West pyramid league, I agree that junior clubs have the right to stay junior, or go senior. Talbot, Glenafton, etc should not be vilified for syupporting the SJFA, whilst also keeping their pyramid options open. However, this works both ways, and some posts on here shows that junior clubs "considering" a move, have also be subject to vicious attacks (eg "traitors" to the grade) which are equally toxic, and totally unnecessary. There is also an underlying fear that the SJFA could seek to punish clubs which express an interest in the pyramid. Clubs have not forgotten the Clydebank situation, when the Bankies made an initial application to join the Lowland League, and then given little choice but to "defer their application." Respect on both sides is needed.....please. 9 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black & Red Socks Posted February 13, 2020 Share Posted February 13, 2020 (edited) 31 minutes ago, Marten said: Tbh, it's crazy anyway to have this many pages of debate about a club who just said they are exploring all options and only might end up applying to the WoSFL. They might still end up deciding to apply to the EoSFL or remain junior... Exactly this. Fauldhouse have scheduled a meeting and it is for them to plot their way forward. They have had two opportunities to move to the EoSFL and have either decided against doing so or have not really discussed the prospect at all up until now. The potential formation of a WoSFL would appear to have prompted them to either discuss the matter again or to discuss it properly for the first time. The LL/EoSFL statement that "There will of course be issues such as geographical integrity to be considered" seems to make it clear that there will only be one destination on offer should they choose to progress from the Juniors into the Seniors anyway. Edited February 13, 2020 by Black & Red Socks 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LongTimeLurker Posted February 13, 2020 Share Posted February 13, 2020 2 minutes ago, Robert James said: ...Talbot, Glenafton, etc should not be vilified for syupporting the SJFA, whilst also keeping their pyramid options open... The earlier Talbot statement was more guarded about the prospect of entering a WoS division, but could be read as saying that they are in the loop and will consult supporters about it. They are posting stuff like this on their twitter feed: 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert James Posted February 13, 2020 Share Posted February 13, 2020 (edited) 7 hours ago, ArabAuslander said: That's his point. Like myself and others including @Marten have said, keep the HL/LL boundry as is. Have the Tayside and Northern Supers (-Nairn) merge to form the Grampian and Tayside feeder for the HL, with the NCL (+ Nairn) covering the Far North. Agreed, and will happen IF the North Juniors now decide to join the pyramid Edited February 13, 2020 by Robert James typo error 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert James Posted February 13, 2020 Share Posted February 13, 2020 5 hours ago, Cyclizine said: What about Spey Valley Utd? Yes, they are situated in the Highland Region 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmontheloknow Posted February 13, 2020 Share Posted February 13, 2020 I just don't see what any clubs gain by opting out. Bathgate Thistle as it stands will NEVER play Linlithgow or Bo'ness again (the real ones, not the tribute act(s)) in a competitive match. If for example Ladeside and Greenock cling onto TAJ's coat tails, they would forever be waving goodbye to local rivalries - or until such point they changed their mind and came in - belatedly and therefore likely at a lower level. "Take that, face!" he said, cutting off his own nose to spite it. And the SJFA cannot deliver what they say they want - parity for all SJFA members. the East sides are not getting into the pyramid alongside the EoS as it would be an issue of, to quote the phrase used yesterday, "geographical integrity". TAJ's plan is unworkable. 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burnie_man Posted February 13, 2020 Author Share Posted February 13, 2020 On Fauldhouse, I don't think sorting the missing piece in development of the non-league football in Scotland should be side-tracked over one club. Equally, I don't understand how there can be strong feelings either way. The West Lothian boundary is just a line on a map, it's hardly the Rubicon. The ground is about two miles from the boundary. Who cares? And how many people in West Lothian have ever even been to Fauldhouse? It's hardly the Temple Mount of our people. Having lines is useful but a mile here or there makes no difference. It's the end of the world if a team from just outside Lanarkshire play in the West of Scotland Football League, but it's fine for the East of Scotland Football League to have a member that's not even from Scotland? Anyway. Trivia. The holy grail is almost in our grasp so let's get this done and sort out the marginal cases later. Good luck to everyone.What you're doing is separating decades old rivalries between WL clubs, creating another artificial line between clubs which should be competing against each other, and where do you therefore draw the line? Will Whitburn, Bathgate and Livingston fancy a crack at the west as well, because they're no different from Fauldhouse. Nothing needs derailed, any WL club applying just need to be pointed back in the direction of the EoS, with the "geographical integrity" maintained. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LongTimeLurker Posted February 13, 2020 Share Posted February 13, 2020 Think the geographical integrity bit in the lastest statement shows there isn't going to be much flexibility on this, but there will probably be some. How do you handle Kello otherwise? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmontheloknow Posted February 13, 2020 Share Posted February 13, 2020 1 minute ago, LongTimeLurker said: Think the geographical integrity bit in the lastest statement shows there isn't going to be much flexibility on this, but there will probably be some. How do you handle Kello otherwise? Defer until SoS/WoS merge! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GordonS Posted February 13, 2020 Share Posted February 13, 2020 4 minutes ago, Burnie_man said: What you're doing is separating decades old rivalries between WL clubs, creating another artificial line between clubs which should be competing against each other, and where do you therefore draw the line? Will Whitburn, Bathgate and Livingston fancy a crack at the west as well, because they're no different from Fauldhouse. Nothing needs derailed, any WL club applying just need to be pointed back in the direction of the EoS. Where those living around the current line want to draw it. We could argue over what "around" means, but by any definition Fauldhouse would be part of it. Rivalries have nothing to do with artificial municipal boundaries. Linlithgow Rose and Bo'ness are separated by the fearsome ancient West Lothian/ Falkirk border. Camelon is a bigger derby for Linlithgow than Fauldhouse. Is Glencairn v Pollok not a derby, but Glencairn v Forth is? Higher up the food chain, Ayr-Killie, Morton-St Mirren and Accies-Motherwell are all traditional derbies in different local authorities. Most Harthill fans aren't from the council in which their club is located. It couldn't matter less whether Fauldhouse play in the east or the west and I don't understand why anyone would think you or I should be in a position to over-rule their wishes on where to play. And why is it one rule for Tweedmouth and another for Fauldhouse? If you can explain the distinction I'll haud my wheesht. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burnie_man Posted February 13, 2020 Author Share Posted February 13, 2020 (edited) 15 minutes ago, GordonS said: Where those living around the current line want to draw it. We could argue over what "around" means, but by any definition Fauldhouse would be part of it. Rivalries have nothing to do with artificial municipal boundaries. Linlithgow Rose and Bo'ness are separated by the fearsome ancient West Lothian/ Falkirk border. Camelon is a bigger derby for Linlithgow than Fauldhouse. Is Glencairn v Pollok not a derby, but Glencairn v Forth is? Higher up the food chain, Ayr-Killie, Morton-St Mirren and Accies-Motherwell are all traditional derbies in different local authorities. Most Harthill fans aren't from the council in which their club is located. It couldn't matter less whether Fauldhouse play in the east or the west and I don't understand why anyone would think you or I should be in a position to over-rule their wishes on where to play. And why is it one rule for Tweedmouth and another for Fauldhouse? If you can explain the distinction I'll haud my wheesht. Fauldhouse are a West Lothian club, and have been since the 1930's, as are Livingston and Pumpherston, as are Blackburn and Linlithgow. Should there be no demarcation line between regions and allow clubs to move between EoS and WoS as they wish? Do we have Blackburn in the EoS and Livingston in the WoS? Should Linlithgow have the opportunity to hop over the the WoS? Can you perhaps understand why this might lead to a few issues? The Tayside clubs would be battering down doors shouting foul and the SFA could renew interest in how this is being conducted, and that wouldn't be good. Two miles or 20 miles is immaterial, if there are regional leagues there also has to be a definition of what area the respective leagues cover, otherwise we have chaos and confusion. The traditional Junior boundaries between Lanarkshire and West Lothian are already accepted boundaries. Keep it simple. Tweedmouth are a red herring. Edited February 13, 2020 by Burnie_man 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmontheloknow Posted February 13, 2020 Share Posted February 13, 2020 11 minutes ago, GordonS said: Where those living around the current line want to draw it. We could argue over what "around" means, but by any definition Fauldhouse would be part of it. Rivalries have nothing to do with artificial municipal boundaries. Linlithgow Rose and Bo'ness are separated by the fearsome ancient West Lothian/ Falkirk border. Camelon is a bigger derby for Linlithgow than Fauldhouse. Is Glencairn v Pollok not a derby, but Glencairn v Forth is? Higher up the food chain, Ayr-Killie, Morton-St Mirren and Accies-Motherwell are all traditional derbies in different local authorities. Most Harthill fans aren't from the council in which their club is located. It couldn't matter less whether Fauldhouse play in the east or the west and I don't understand why anyone would think you or I should be in a position to over-rule their wishes on where to play. And why is it one rule for Tweedmouth and another for Fauldhouse? If you can explain the distinction I'll haud my wheesht. I suppose with Tweedmouth, they play in/across river from a town that historically is Scottish and in football terms is Scottish. Berwick Rangers for example over the wall are in the pyramid. Various Berwick amateur teams play in the Borders AFL. The problem with flexible boundaries is it creates a domino effect - and it can go the other way too - Fauldhouse are close to Shotts, who are close to Wishaw etc... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burnie_man Posted February 13, 2020 Author Share Posted February 13, 2020 3 minutes ago, cmontheloknow said: The problem with flexible boundaries is it creates a domino effect - and it can go the other way too - Fauldhouse are close to Shotts, who are close to Wishaw etc... Wishaw in the EoS, Livingston in the WoS............ 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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