Cowden Cowboy Posted February 11, 2020 Share Posted February 11, 2020 Slightly offtopic, but if an SPFL club disappears now, how would they be replaced, would simply the winner of the HL/LL play-off get promoted with club 42 being safe, or do the usual play-offs take place and does the extra spot get opened for application?It would be up to the SPFL clubs how a team would be replaced - they have a free hand as far as I can see. They could invite any club they wish 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stanley Posted February 11, 2020 Share Posted February 11, 2020 You'd be looking at three tier 6 leagues representing the following populations: WoS - more than 2 million EoS - almost 2 million SoS - 150k Not sure there can be any argument about this... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshmallo Posted February 11, 2020 Share Posted February 11, 2020 Just now, stanley said: You'd be looking at three tier 6 leagues representing the following populations: WoS - more than 2 million EoS - almost 2 million SoS - 150k Not sure there can be any argument about this... This is incredibly disrespectful to all those teams that sound like places in Lord of the Rings and their 25 farmer fans. -2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burnie_man Posted February 11, 2020 Author Share Posted February 11, 2020 1 hour ago, Doonhamer1969 said: St Cuthberts didint decline promotion. The LL denied promotion to them because a fire escape was' in the wrong place'. Interested to understand what the probability is of a current (licenced) SoS club actually wanting promotion to the LL, and being able to finance a competitive side? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doonhamer1969 Posted February 11, 2020 Share Posted February 11, 2020 (edited) 22 minutes ago, craigkillie said: Even if the SoS was a fantastically high standard, it doesn't make sense long-term to have one Tier 6 league representing Fife, Stirling, Falkirk, Clackmannanshire, Perthshire, East Lothian, West Lothian, Midlothian, Edinburgh and the Borders, another representing Glasgow, North Ayrshire, East Ayrshire, South Ayrshire, North Lanarkshire, South Lanarkshire, Renfrewshire, East Renfrewshire, Inverclyde, East Dunbartonshire, West Dunbartonshire and Argyll & Bute, while another represents only Dumfries & Galloway. That is an enormous geographical imbalance. The Lowland League denied promotion because St Cuthbert were unlicensed. They don't control who does and doesn't get licenses - that's the SFA's decision. Ive no dispute with that statement. However bumping it down to Tier 8 from Tier 6 in one go is not acceptable in one go., and its not as bad a league as some on here seem to think. It's not the SoS' fault that the Borders to north Fife has been lumped into one large area. As i said elsewhere, at some point it could be dropped to Tier 7, which is an acceptable level for it, as it is exactly where the former EoS clubs are now. It shouldnt just be shunted aside suddenly to make way for the WoS. Edited February 11, 2020 by Doonhamer1969 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doonhamer1969 Posted February 11, 2020 Share Posted February 11, 2020 24 minutes ago, craigkillie said: Even if the SoS was a fantastically high standard, it doesn't make sense long-term to have one Tier 6 league representing Fife, Stirling, Falkirk, Clackmannanshire, Perthshire, East Lothian, West Lothian, Midlothian, Edinburgh and the Borders, another representing Glasgow, North Ayrshire, East Ayrshire, South Ayrshire, North Lanarkshire, South Lanarkshire, Renfrewshire, East Renfrewshire, Inverclyde, East Dunbartonshire, West Dunbartonshire and Argyll & Bute, while another represents only Dumfries & Galloway. That is an enormous geographical imbalance. The Lowland League denied promotion because St Cuthbert were unlicensed. They don't control who does and doesn't get licenses - that's the SFA's decision. RE St Cuthberts, meant to say 'were denied promotion to the LL'. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray Patterson Posted February 11, 2020 Share Posted February 11, 2020 Worked This up. It only let me do counties so I would say that P+K would definitely straddle as border territory. The same can be said of West Lothian possibly. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShrimpLok Posted February 11, 2020 Share Posted February 11, 2020 2 hours ago, Burnie_man said: On the subject of near misses, I think both Luncarty and Harthill Royal can be considered exceptions. Luncarty straddles the HL/LL line, with the ground in the north part of it. Should they be allowed to join the LL area? IMO Yes Harthill is in North Lanarkshire, outwith the EoS area, but their ground is about 20 yards inside West Lothian. Should they be allowed to join a WoS? IMO Yes. These are the only two examples I can think of where exceptions can be made if the clubs themselves wanted it. Otherwise North and South Lanarkshire are vinegar, West Lothian is sauce. Keeping it simple. But the chippy in Harthill (not Greenrigg as it doesn’t have a chippy) will give you Sauce (as does the chippy in Carnwath which is the only other Lanarkshire chippy I know of with sauce.) Otherwise Sauce does map pretty well to EOS region although you don’t get it in Eyemouth, St Andrew’s, Teeedmouth, Perth or Hawick. I believe the most northerly chippy sauce is to be found in the Chinese takeaway in Newburgh unless someone else can enlighten me. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GordonS Posted February 11, 2020 Share Posted February 11, 2020 2 minutes ago, ArabAuslander said: Worked This up. It only let me do counties so I would say that P+K would definitely straddle as border territory. The same can be said of West Lothian possibly. Kudos on finding a map with pre-1975 boundaries. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
never been to scotland Posted February 11, 2020 Share Posted February 11, 2020 11 minutes ago, Doonhamer1969 said: Ive no dispute with that statement. However bumping it down to Tier 8 from Tier 6 in one go is not acceptable in one go., and its not as bad a league as some on here seem to think. It's not the SoS' fault that the Borders to north Fife has been lumped into one large area. As i said elsewhere, at some point it could be dropped to Tier 7, which is an acceptable level for it, as it is exactly where the former EoS clubs are now. It shouldnt just be shunted aside suddenly to make way for the WoS. The problem with waiting is it gets messier once the WOS leagues are stable. It's much easier to move SOS teams into tier 6 WOS conferences than to try and slot them into an already full tier 6 league in 2 years' time. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stanley Posted February 11, 2020 Share Posted February 11, 2020 6 minutes ago, Doonhamer1969 said: Ive no dispute with that statement. However bumping it down to Tier 8 from Tier 6 in one go is not acceptable in one go., and its not as bad a league as some on here seem to think. It's not the SoS' fault that the Borders to north Fife has been lumped into one large area. As i said elsewhere, at some point it could be dropped to Tier 7, which is an acceptable level for it, as it is exactly where the former EoS clubs are now. It shouldnt just be shunted aside suddenly to make way for the WoS. I think a solution will take a bit of time and needs to try to respect the SoS at the same time as progressing the pyramid. Longer term, a Dumfries & Galloway league (I know Bonnyton are in it as well but they are the exception) could not be at level 7. If you look at the EoS as an example, if the south of the Tay juniors all joined then you'd end up with a structure along the lines of: Tier 6-EoS Premier (16 teams) Tier 7-EoS First (16 teams) Tier 8-EoS Second North & South (up to 16 teams each) Many of the former EoS clubs are in the Lowland League but if you look at what was left of the league after the LL formed, a small number would make it to tier 7. As things stand, you'd probably get around 5 or 6 of the EoS clubs (post-LL) in the EoS First if it was to use the format above although that's before you add 22 east juniors into the mix with the chance of being promoted etc. If all the west juniors were to eventually join the WoS then you could have something like this: Tier 6-WoS Premier (16 teams) Tier 7-WoS First (16 teams) Tier 8-WoS Second (16 teams) Tier 9-WoS Third Central & Ayshire/D&G (up to 16 teams each) You could also make it three regional divisions at tier 8 but I think promoting three divisions into one doesn't tend to work well due to lack of promotion places and the west juniors already moved towards a region-wide model recently. The main thing for me would be that you incorporate the South clubs into the structure (only 13 first teams left, similar to what was left of the old EoS) and they gradually find their place in the league. I wouldn't just ditch the league to the bottom but I would allow teams to start higher up if they want to (or go lower down if they prefer that). A league based in such a small regional area would have to be at the bottom of the pyramid longer-term by definition (i.e. national leagues at the top and regional as you go lower down). 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray Patterson Posted February 11, 2020 Share Posted February 11, 2020 (edited) Realistically, the WOS and EOS should be the only feeders to the LL, with the North Caley and Northern Superleague being the same for the HL. This would provide the SFA Requirement of under 64 sides at Tier 6, it would also look like a pure pyramid of 1-2-4 from SPFL2 downwards. My personal opinion is let the WOS settle first before the SOS is "relegated" to Tier 7. It would be unfair to relegate them any further. Tier 6: Tier 7: Okay that's enough maps for now. Edited February 11, 2020 by ArabAuslander 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doonhamer1969 Posted February 11, 2020 Share Posted February 11, 2020 28 minutes ago, Burnie_man said: Interested to understand what the probability is of a current (licenced) SoS club actually wanting promotion to the LL, and being able to finance a competitive side? Threave (despite their earlier dismal attempt) appear to want back in., or so they're saying in the local squeak. I'm well aware there are very few clubs in the league who are up to getting promoted, but there are one or two with decent grounds and a reasonable fanbase. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burnie_man Posted February 11, 2020 Author Share Posted February 11, 2020 1 minute ago, Doonhamer1969 said: Threave (despite their earlier dismal attempt) appear to want back in., or so they're saying in the local squeak. I'm well aware there are very few clubs in the league who are up to getting promoted, but there are one or two with decent grounds and a reasonable fanbase. Thanks. Are they happy with their lot, or do you think instead of LL they would maybe be happier hooking into a future WoS League at either tier 7 or 8? Maybe replicate Girvan in moving up and down the lower west levels? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
archieb Posted February 11, 2020 Share Posted February 11, 2020 11 minutes ago, ArabAuslander said: Worked This up. It only let me do counties so I would say that P+K would definitely straddle as border territory. The same can be said of West Lothian possibly. Don't see why you've put Nairnshire in the NCL area when Nairn St Ninian are a NRSJFA Super League team?? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshmallo Posted February 11, 2020 Share Posted February 11, 2020 7 minutes ago, ArabAuslander said: . My personal opinion is let the WOS settle first before the SOS is "relegated" to Tier 7. It would be unfair to relegate them any further. Why would that be unfair? -2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray Patterson Posted February 11, 2020 Share Posted February 11, 2020 2 minutes ago, archieb said: Don't see why you've put Nairnshire in the NCL area when Nairn St Ninian are a NRSJFA Super League team?? The reason I did that was I think they'd ought to move in order to keep a Balance of numbers. Also because Nairn County are members of the North Caley FA. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doonhamer1969 Posted February 11, 2020 Share Posted February 11, 2020 9 minutes ago, never been to scotland said: The problem with waiting is it gets messier once the WOS leagues are stable. It's much easier to move SOS teams into tier 6 WOS conferences than to try and slot them into an already full tier 6 league in 2 years' time. Exactly. So leave them where they are for the time being, at Tier 6. Once the WoS is up and running at Tier 6, with , say a WoS 1st division at Tier 7, then the SoS can simply be demoted one Tier and feed into the WoS Premier alongside WoS 1st Division. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doonhamer1969 Posted February 11, 2020 Share Posted February 11, 2020 4 minutes ago, Burnie_man said: Thanks. Are they happy with their lot, or do you think instead of LL they would maybe be happier hooking into a future WoS League at either tier 7 or 8? Maybe replicate Girvan in moving up and down the lower west levels? Personal opinion, because of travelling distances, after the WoS is set up at Tier 6, and then presumably will add extra tiers as more clubs apply, ie Tier 7, 8 etc, then the SoS could drop down to Tier 7 with the winners getting promoted into Tier 6 WoS if they meet the criteria etc. I think that is a reasonable level for them, same as the original EoS clubs, who are all Tier 7 now. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
never been to scotland Posted February 11, 2020 Share Posted February 11, 2020 9 minutes ago, Doonhamer1969 said: Exactly. So leave them where they are for the time being, at Tier 6. Once the WoS is up and running at Tier 6, with , say a WoS 1st division at Tier 7, then the SoS can simply be demoted one Tier and feed into the WoS Premier alongside WoS 1st Division. That solution isn't simple at all. What about the teams that are happy to play regionwide and do not want to be demoted? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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