Junior football, what is the future?

[honestman54]

4 minutes ago, Sergeant Wilson said:

Junior divisions often had odd numbers, the bottom division has 15 this season. If Oban, or anyone one else wanted to they can register interest and be considered like any other new applicant.

if the existing set up was brought in then 'new' applicants would have to start at tier 9 rather than apply at tier 6 with a LL led set up.  

[Sergeant Wilson]

1 minute ago, Marshmallo said:

They'd be looking at tier 9 rather than potential tier 6 entry if a new WoS is set up.

I'm not of a strong opinion either way over whether that is right or wrong btw.

I get that there are considerations to be made depending on the format and entry level. I was just referring to the right to apply.

[FairWeatherFan]

14 minutes ago, honestman54 said:

Because as I understand it you bring in the whole wos juniors divisions 1-4 as is.  No option to for additional teams to come in at that tier 6 (division 1 level) as you upset the junior set up in terms of numbers in the division.  Thats why!

This might be part of the reason the SoSFL is okay with the SJFA getting into pyramid. They know there are clubs within the Lowland League that won't accept joining the SJFA, so they would have to go into the SoSFL. They also don't risk losing clubs like Bonnyton Thistle or Caledonian Braves from their league and cup set up.

 

[Burnie_man]

This might be part of the reason the SoSFL is okay with the SJFA getting into pyramid. They know there are clubs within the Lowland League that won't accept joining the SJFA, so they would have to go into the SoSFL. They also don't risk losing clubs like Bonnyton Thistle or Caledonian Braves from their league and cup set up.

 

Looking at the statement, it could have been written by TAJ, I mean why are the SoS concerned about historic Junior competitions? Why mention personal relationships? It's a very unnecessary statement.

 

[invergowrie arab]

Why should any new non junior applicant have to start at the bottom of the junior structure?

Why should Glasgow uni or Oban  or anyone else join at Tier 9 and Beith at 6? 

[honestman54]

Just now, invergowrie arab said:

Why should any new non junior applicant have to start at the bottom of the junior structure?

Why should Glasgow uni or Oban  or anyone else join at Tier 9 and Beith at 6? 

Because I would expect that the 'brought in' West Juniors would want their set up in unchanged and so new teams would have to apply from the bottom (tier 9).  Thats why we need a complete new start from such as the LL and, as others have said, its not all about the Juniors.

[Marshmallo]

1 minute ago, invergowrie arab said:

Why should any new non junior applicant have to start at the bottom of the junior structure?

Why should Glasgow uni or Oban  or anyone else join at Tier 9 and Beith at 6? 

It isn't exactly linear but it is pretty obvious that the majority of Junior teams are better than the vast majority of Amateur teams. However a conference set up for year one similar to the EoS set up of 2018/19 would let that play out so would be my favoured option.

[honestman54]

2 minutes ago, Marshmallo said:

It isn't exactly linear but it is pretty obvious that the majority of Junior teams are better than the vast majority of Amateur teams. However a conference set up for year one similar to the EoS set up of 2018/19 would let that play out so would be my favoured option.

cant have a conference set up if you bring in the entire 4 divisions of the West juniors.  

[Marten]

I was hoping for option W, but the more I read about this, the more I think a WOSFL would be the best for everyone. Any club that wants to, regardless of whether they're currently junior, amateur, SOSFL, youth or brand new, can apply and all will start as equals. Any club that doesn't want to move can stay where they are. Fairest way for all.

If the remaining West Lothian ERJFA clubs still don't want to move to the EOSFL and most Fife clubs leave as suggested, they can always join the WRJFA and stay junior while having more opponents if they so wish.

[invergowrie arab]

10 minutes ago, honestman54 said:

Because I would expect that the 'brought in' West Juniors would want their set up in unchanged and so new teams would have to apply from the bottom (tier 9).  Thats why we need a complete new start from such as the LL and, as others have said, its not all about the Juniors.

I think we are agreeing

[honestman54]

2 minutes ago, invergowrie arab said:

I think we are agreeing

Yes indeed.

[LongTimeLurker]

24 minutes ago, Burnie_man said:

Looking at the statement, it could have been written by TAJ, I mean why are the SoS concerned about historic Junior competitions? Why mention personal relationships? It's a very unnecessary statement.

It has been obvious for a long time that the SoS were not on the same page as the EoS. This isn't a new development or in any way surprising. If the WoS initially launches as part of the LL after a series of internal rule changes are implemented at the LL's 2020 AGM, there are probably procedural ways available to still keep the EoS/SoS playoff intact because of the way that the playoff-format wording was future-proofed, although it would be easier to proceed with SoS agreement on a modified playoff format. All the SoS appear to be doing is urging the various parties to compromise, so there is no suggestion at this point they would try to block any change.

[honestman54]

2 minutes ago, LongTimeLurker said:

It has been obvious for a long time that the SoS were not on the same page as the EoS. This isn't a new development or in any way surprising. If the WoS initially launches as part of the LL after a series of internal rule changes are implemented at the LL's 2020 AGM, there are probably procedural ways available to still keep the EoS/SoS playoff intact because of the way that the playoff-format wording was future-proofed, although it would be easier to proceed with SoS agreement on a modified playoff format. All the SoS appear to be doing is urging the various parties to compromise, so there is no suggestion at this point they would try to block any change.

Maybe we should go for a play off with the top of all three divisions (EOS, SOS, WOS) and the last place of the LL.

[Marshmallo]

1 minute ago, honestman54 said:

Maybe we should go for a play off with the top of all three divisions (EOS, SOS, WOS) and the last place of the LL.

Yeah that's what we need, making it even less likely that the dross at the bottom of the LL gets relegated.

[honestman54]

1 minute ago, Marshmallo said:

Yeah that's what we need, making it even less likely that the dross at the bottom of the LL gets relegated.

Thats not very flattering to the teams below the LL if you think they cant beat 'the dross' as you call it.  Hawick RA and Whitehill Welfare have done so well and the likes of Kelty and Bonnyrig have done very well.  So not sure what your on about.

[LongTimeLurker]

11 minutes ago, honestman54 said:

Maybe we should go for a play off with the top of all three divisions (EOS, SOS, WOS) and the last place of the LL.

Hopefully a west feeder would mean two up two down. If the SoS gets awkward, second bottom place could be for the WoS champion from what would effectively be the lower LL divisions and the existing EoS/SoS playoff format could be for the bottom placed team as it is now. If the SoS doesn't, hopefully it would be a three game three-way playoff for two promotion places, similar to how the EoS handled having three conference champions last season. 

Edited February 8, 2020 by LongTimeLurker

[never been to scotland]

That SOS statement is extremely annoying. Ultimately any changes do not affect them, they just don't want to get bumped down a tier.

[LongTimeLurker]

Just now, never been to scotland said:

That SOS statement is extremely annoying. Ultimately any changes do not affect them, they just don't want to get bumped down a tier.

They are probably confident that the SJFA has no interest in expanding into their fiefdom, while the EoS did it in the past when clubs like Dalbeattie, Annan and Threave Rovers decided they wanted to play in a more challenging league setup.

[FairWeatherFan]

4 minutes ago, never been to scotland said:

That SOS statement is extremely annoying. Ultimately any changes do not affect them, they just don't want to get bumped down a tier.

• Bonnyton Thistle and Caledonian Braves SoS might try and move to an independent WoSFL. Threave Rovers are another possible on having left for the EoS and LL in the past.
• Dalbeattie Star, Gretna 2008, Caledonian Braves, East Kilbride might prefer to be relegated to an independent WoSFL
• This could also see Dalbeattie Star,  Caledonian Braves give up membership to the Southern Counties FA and no longer compete in SoS cup competitions

The SoSFL sits at a membership of 15, two of  which are reserve sides. It might not simply be a case of being moved down a tier, but be chipped away at and eventually absorbed into a larger structure.

[Fear no foe]

Can only hope Mr Ronney knows something that I (merely looking in from the outside) don't regards west participation, Should hopefully find out more about it on the 29th at the fans meeting.

I personally couldn't care less about 134 year history of SJFA.

Take a look East. 3 seasons ago Broxburn and Fauldhouse were in the same division in the Superleague. 2 years ago they went down different paths with this season Broxburn enjoying some William Hill cup success and a recent last 32 tie against St Mirren whilst Fauldhouse currently sit behind Pumpherston and Livingston Utd (no disrespect to either club intended) in the current South Superleague.

I fully appreciate that I deliberately picked 2 clubs to suit my argument as one club has a licence whilst the other does not. I also appreciate that it's not an exact science and the West might not look the same under similar circumstances , however if the West clubs were to move en masse I know what path I would rather take.