Junior football, what is the future?

[Che Dail]

14 minutes ago, Beenzon-Toste said:

WOW.
So, I take it you mean that none of this came from the SFA or the PWG?
It's all a fabrication from TJ to mislead his clubs.
Completely made up by him alone.
A work of fiction.
Really?

Instead of 'fiction' I think the correct term for what was presented is:  false dilemma fallacy. 

This is not something I know off by heart, I just googled "fallacy options" and "options with no chance of success" and it came up with that (among with other 'options' funnily enough).

[Che Dail]

14 minutes ago, Beenzon-Toste said:

honestly, what idiot would put it to his member clubs without believing that the people in the meeting with him, including Ian McQueen, were genuine when they told him that the LL, SFA of whatever league or association that option Z was backed.
ESPECIALLY when everyone knows that its not in any way worthwhile for the senior leagues to accept option Z

No need to call him an idiot!  

[PastyMan]

25 minutes ago, Beenzon-Toste said:

WOW.
So, I take it you mean that none of this came from the SFA or the PWG?
It's all a fabrication from TJ to mislead his clubs.
Completely made up by him alone.
A work of fiction.
Really?

Beenzon man, last year's fabrication and work of fiction was "Tier 6 done deal"

You know the saying, " Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me." ?

 

[FairWeatherFan]

I'd say the last PWG was a last desperate attempt at getting some sort of consensus. The discipline, calendar and regulations had largely been dealt with. It all came down to format.

That's why you had ideas with no real depth to them and one already rejected. The hope was obviously something would get approval.

It was all just wishful thinking not a grand conspiracy.

[LongTimeLurker]

52 minutes ago, Bestsinceslicebread said:

... And to be honest, the SJFA organization is so shit. If I was TJ and the LL said they would back it, Id get it in writing as proof.

I don't believe the LL would ever say that and if they had said it to me if I was in power similar to TJ I would have got proof, SIMPLES ...

If you look at his bizarre email to member clubs, TJ claims that one of the LL reps (from BSC Glasgow) at the meeting stated that the LL had been broadly on board with Option Z eight months ago, but had since changed its mind due to a dissident minority that persuaded the rest. Said rep has since stated on twitter that TJ's account of what happened is "creative writing", so who knows what the truth is. It's possible though that the LL may have been split internally on the idea of having an LL West and LL East and TJ and others were taken in by over-optimism on the part of the faction that was in favour of it.

From an SFA standpoint it was probably a case of we'll go through the motions on this and if by some miracle it works that's fine, and if it doesn't we'll just exit the whole PWG process. Where I think the SJFA reps completely lost the plot is that they seem to have expected the SFA board to force it through anyway when there is  no obvious way for them to do so in terms of their constitution.

Edited February 6, 2020 by LongTimeLurker

[Che Dail]

6 minutes ago, FairWeatherFan said:

I'd say the last PWG was a last desperate attempt at getting some sort of consensus. The discipline, calendar and regulations had largely been dealt with. It all came down to format.

That's why you had ideas with no real depth to them and one already rejected. The hope was obviously something would get approval.

It was all just wishful thinking not a grand conspiracy.

On a wing and a prayer

[Bestsinceslicebread]

21 minutes ago, LongTimeLurker said:

If you look at his bizarre email to member clubs, TJ claims that one of the LL reps (from BSC Glasgow) at the meeting stated that the LL had been broadly on board with Option Z eight months ago, but had since changed its mind due to a dissident minority that persuaded the rest.

Said rep has since stated on twitter that TJ's account of what happened is "creative writing", so who knows what the truth is. It's possible though that the LL may have been split internally on the idea of having an LL West and LL East and TJ and others were taken in by over-optimism on the part of the faction that was in favour of it.

From an SFA standpoint it was probably a case of we'll go through the motions on this and if by some miracle it works that's fine, and if it doesn't we'll just exit the whole PWG process. Where I think the SJFA completely lost the plot is that they seem to have expected the SFA board to force it through anyway when there is  no obvious way for them to do so in terms of their constitution.

I get all that. George said on his twitter creative writing but he didn't officially say who the creative writer was, (unless I missed it), but I'm sure everyone believes they know who he was talking about.

There's also naivety by each of the junior member representatives not realizing that LL would never go for Option Z.  As soon as I heard about option Z, I stated on here that it would never get through. 

If I'm a junior member and there is even the slightest possibility of my team going to the senior league then id make dammed sure I know everything there is needs to know and more in regards the set up, the history, how the structure works and what other possibilities can happen in changes to set up.
At the end of the last two months of last season I spoke with 7 or 8 committee men from four other junior Teams the east and they were all against going senior but didn't even have a clue the process, how its going. They just said NO and gave no reason. For me that is just blind ignorance.

Edited February 6, 2020 by Bestsinceslicebread

[Jacksgranda]

1 hour ago, Bestsinceslicebread said:

I don't get why people who are pro pyramid or pro junior just ignore what they want to ignore and believe what they want to believe.
Beenzan Taste, I've already replied to what you said, (in the box below) and you have chosen to ignore it.

In order to be pro pyramid, you have to have good reasons why the juniors should join
if you are pro junior you have to have good reason why juniors should stay.

lets put it this way, whatever comes on this thread, there is a 99% chance that more junior teams will be leaving the junior leagues to join the pyramid and when that starts to happen it will leave a negative effect on the rest of the junior level and thus you might, as i expect, seeing more juniors leave the junior associaiton

 

That is FACT. Now there could be the LL said lies to the west region in order to make them look fools, which is really what you are stating has happened or

The SJFA want their members to go for option Z as they NEED all junior teams to go as one in order for the junior position power struggles.  If the west went alone, then the junior cake dangle would be gone as they would only be left with North region and the East region.
the SJFA are obviously upset that the LL, SOS EOS wont accept the East region joining in separately and in at Tier 6. Common sense tells us that wouldn't be allowed to happen.
let me stipulate again, at no time did those four members say it was backed by the SFA.


And to be honest, the SJFA organization is so shit. If I was TJ and the LL said they would back it, Id get it in writing as proof.
I don't believe the LL would ever say that and if they had said it to me if I was in power similar to TJ I would have got proof, SIMPLES

 

 

 

 

 

 

All he had to do was bounce back an e-mail saying "I confirm x, y & z from our meeting/conversation of date".

[glensmad]

9 minutes ago, Bestsinceslicebread said:

At the end of the last two months of last season I spoke with 7 or 8 committee men from four other junior Teams the east and they were all against going senior but didn't even have a clue the process, how its going. They just said NO and gave no reason. For me that is just blind ignorance.

Yep. 

[Marten]

There is just no way that the LL would have agreed to option Z. They aren't even able to promise option Z is possible. In order to change tier 5, play-off structures and the boundary, the SPFL, HFL, LL and SoSFL all have to be on board. Also the SFA would have to be on board with it due to the implication for the licensing process and voting amongst member clubs in which SPFL clubs could suddenly be outvoted by Tier 5 clubs. Also, the SFA would have to agree for unlicensed clubs to join LL west with a view of getting licensed soon, otherwise LL west might not be properly filled.

[Inanimate Carbon Rod]

Letting that thug Mccoll back into Cambuslang, the pyramid mess, cannae arrange a cup final as if its a surprise every year etc theres absolutely no way the sjfa are fit to lead anyone into a pyramid, hope this rumour about the west region isnt true.

[Marshmallo]

1 minute ago, Inanimate Carbon Rod said:

hope this rumour about the west region isnt true.

It absolutely isn't true. It's been posted on here with the ultimate goal of making clubs sit tight for another year.

[GNU_Linux]

Letting that thug Mccoll back into Cambuslang, the pyramid mess, cannae arrange a cup final as if its a surprise every year etc theres absolutely no way the sjfa are fit to lead anyone into a pyramid, hope this rumour about the west region isnt true.

Wonder if the seniors have a better quality of carrier bag for medals

[FairWeatherFan]

10 minutes ago, Inanimate Carbon Rod said:

Letting that thug Mccoll back into Cambuslang, the pyramid mess, cannae arrange a cup final as if its a surprise every year etc theres absolutely no way the sjfa are fit to lead anyone into a pyramid, hope this rumour about the west region isnt true.

Not sure how it can be really. You've got x amount of clubs actually in with the LL knowing what's actually happening.

There's probably a segment following Talbots lead of stay together and we'll get in. Those are the people likely spreading the rumour. 

While those in the loop are probably keeping quiet till Friday. 

[cmontheloknow]

8 minutes ago, GNU_Linux said:

14 minutes ago, Inanimate Carbon Rod said:

Letting that thug Mccoll back into Cambuslang, the pyramid mess, cannae arrange a cup final as if its a surprise every year etc theres absolutely no way the sjfa are fit to lead anyone into a pyramid, hope this rumour about the west region isnt true.

Wonder if the seniors have a better quality of carrier bag for medals

Where else could the gold plated bog taps come from but...

[Dev]

42 minutes ago, Bestsinceslicebread said:

I get all that. George said on his twitter creative writing but he didn't officially say who the creative writer was, (unless I missed it), but I'm sure everyone believes they know who he was talking about.

There's also naivety by each of the junior member representatives not realizing that LL would never go for Option Z.  As soon as I heard about option Z, I stated on here that it would never get through. 

If I'm a junior member and there is even the slightest possibility of my team going to the senior league then id make dammed sure I know everything there is needs to know and more in regards the set up, the history, how the structure works and what other possibilities can happen in changes to set up.
At the end of the last two months of last season I spoke with 7 or 8 committee men from four other junior Teams the east and they were all against going senior but didn't even have a clue the process, how its going. They just said NO and gave no reason. For me that is just blind ignorance.

Blind ignorance based upon mislaid trust and a willingness to be bullied by an employee, supported by an aged Supporter who's now over-stepped the mark once too often! At least that's my view.

[Born To Run]

1 hour ago, LongTimeLurker said:

If you look at his bizarre email to member clubs, TJ claims that one of the LL reps (from BSC Glasgow) at the meeting stated that the LL had been broadly on board with Option Z eight months ago, but had since changed its mind due to a dissident minority that persuaded the rest. Said rep has since stated on twitter that TJ's account of what happened is "creative writing", so who knows what the truth is. It's possible though that the LL may have been split internally on the idea of having an LL West and LL East and TJ and others were taken in by over-optimism on the part of the faction that was in favour of it.

Couple of things here:

- George isn’t just a LL rep, he’s the chair of the league. His role is to represent all member clubs.

- There is no “split”, nor “tribal” issues on this. The ‘west in as a region’ option would have sailed through. The Lowland has never had any intention of splitting into East and West leagues; LL2/WoS is the only idea that’s came up in the past.

- Purely my opinion on this point, but the SJFA still has a glimmer of hope if they now fully commit to the West Region moving in at tier 6 - pronto. If not, the WoS is coming with all the upheaval that will entail.

Edited February 6, 2020 by Born To Run

[theesel1994]

1 hour ago, Bestsinceslicebread said:

Option W for clarity folks I believe was 

(W - the WRSJFA Premiership ONLY is linked into the Pyramid at Tier 6 (i.e. below the Lowland League and equal in status to the EoSL Premier Division and the SoSL) for season 2020-21. The champions of each, IF LICENSED, qualify to play off for promotion to the LL. The WRSJFA Championship, League One and League Two will effectively be placed at Tiers 7 to 8. The ERSJFA and the NRSJFA remain outside the Pyramid.)

 

Option W was the easiest and quickest fix, if that would have happened it would eb easy to get the East and North to join the flollwoing season

I just had a look at the East of Scotland Premier League. With they exception of Whitehill Welfare they all came from the Juniors and WW are third bottom. So what could have been Tier 6 have left the Juniors and are now in the Seniors. The East Region Juniors now are Tier 7 level.

Time for the West Region to look at their vote again and go with Option W (if the LL allow the winner to go in). The alternative is a repeat of the East Region two years ago.

[Che Dail]

26 minutes ago, theesel1994 said:

Time for the West Region to look at their vote again and go with Option W (if the LL allow the winner to go in). The alternative is a repeat of the East Region two years ago.

Option W has the SJFA East and North regions at Tier 7 alongside the EoS conferences -  That's not going to work, particularly as you may have some EoS clubs at T8 next season.

So that option as presented can probably go in the bin as well.

[pipedreamer]

14 minutes ago, Che Dail said:

Option W has the SJFA East and North regions at Tier 7 alongside the EoS conferences -  That's not going to work, particularly as you may have some EoS clubs at T8 next season.

So that option as presented can probably go in the bin as well.

No it doesn’t, option W has the ersjfa and nrsjfa outside the pyramid process.