Junior football, what is the future?

[Tutankhamen]

17 minutes ago, Burnie_man said:

Which is easily achievable if the numbers are there.

And the balls

[Guest]

The LL wont lead this. West junior clubs need to drive it and contact the LL. The future is quite literally in thejr own hands.

I wish people would stop suggesting the LL have to create a wosfl for them, they would help and support but I wouldn't suspect they have a desire to set it up. I'd think they would be more inclined to set up a LL2 and ask for applicants, as this would better fit the current structure. In time I would imagine the LL2 splitting into east and west but not right away.

You might be onto something. Could have been part of a face-saving exit strategy for the SFA board clearing the way for a different approach sidelining the SJFA completely after they realised they had no way to proceed on the "directive" that was issued. The key on Option Z was the LL agreeing to split and some important people in all of this definitely seemed to genuinely believe that all the pieces were in place for that happening, so somebody very high up the food chain in blazer terms was probably being conned in a big way. Would be ironic if it was Tom Johnston rather than the WRSJFA exec.
Hopefully, more than just two west junior clubs will have raised their head above the parapet by early next week after committees will have met at games this weekend and hopefully we'll see something official on the LL and/or EoS website soon about taking applications for a new west league as was being implied would happen on here recently. Without the latter part happening it's a lot more difficult for the ERSJFA to EoS mass defection scenario to unfold in the west and in an absolute worst case scenario Clydebank might have to be willing to be the trailblazing Kelty in an SoS context.
Over and out for a while with no followups so a deluge of bizarre responses doesn't derail the thread.

[sweep]

This proposal was never going to be accepted but their are other issues that would affect teams leaving to play in another league .

If a team are a member of the SJFA they must have priority for the pitch they play on . The one that stares me in the face is Holm park. There is a lot more than league construction involved here. A lot of rules would need to change.

[Sergeant Wilson]

27 minutes ago, Burnie_man said:

I'd look at a map.   The SoS is supposed to cater for Dumfries & Galloway mainly, but have taken in some waifs and strays due to the lack of WoSFL.  They are also an old established league.

If they get enough West teams, say 20. Would 3 conferences and leave the South distinct from 2 West conferences. Top 4 from each promoted to create new division?

[Burnie_man]

2 minutes ago, sweep said:

This proposal was never going to be accepted but their are other issues that would affect teams leaving to play in another league .

If a team are a member of the SJFA they must have priority for the pitch they play on . The one that stares me in the face is Holm park. There is a lot more than league construction involved here. A lot of rules would need to change.

Groundshares are commonplace, and easily accomodated.

[Burnie_man]

1 minute ago, Sergeant Wilson said:

If they get enough West teams, say 20. Would 3 conferences and leave the South distinct from 2 West conferences. Top 4 from each promoted to create new division?

Who knows if the SoS even want 20 clubs from outwith their traditional catchment area.

If there's 20 clubs, form a WoSFL.

[Che Dail]

33 minutes ago, Robert James said:

The above Pyramid Working Group Minutes have been compiled in the name of Tom Johnson. 

I have never met TJ, but my impression is that he is a seasoned/skilled football 'politician', who knows that TIMING, and the  careful SELECTION of WORDING, to be INCLUDED / NOT INCLUDED , can LEAD to very different INTERPRETATIONS,  by those who read them 'cold',  2nd/3rd/4th hand.

Given the above, what would be important now is for the PWG to issue publicly, the official Minutes, of its meeting, and issue them quickly to all the relevant bodies/people.  Otherwise. clubs and fans alike, will only have the SJFA's version of what happened at the meeting, which contributes to  misinterpretations and ongoing misunderstandings.

Also, another hundred or so posts will appear on P&B, arguing about it.

   

I wonder if the apology for that unfortunate slur at the previous Juniors meeting was minuted. 

[Guest]

 

The actual state of that email. If those were official minutes they would be barred from being published. They are laden with accusatory language and I would suggest don't provide an accurate reflection of the night's events.  

As a side note, in all my personal dealings with both the LL and eos not once have they ever made a decision based on if they 'like' someone or something. To suggest they have made such a major decision based on this is quite frankly incorrect and schoolboy/scheme mentality.

 

Quick try and get everyone back onside, tell the clubs the LL and eos don't want or like us....absolute fabrication. Again.

 

 

 

[Marshmallo]

5 minutes ago, Burnie_man said:

Who knows if the SoS even want 20 clubs from outwith their traditional catchment area.

If there's 20 clubs, form a WoSFL.

If the boundary line is moved, would you allow a separate league for Dundee at tier 6?

In fact that's not even a good example - the SoS already has teams from WoS territory. It is an existing feeder for the West of the country.

[sweep]

4 minutes ago, Burnie_man said:

Groundshares are commonplace, and easily accomodated.

So in your wealth of knowledge who would get priority at Holm park if Clydebank left the juniors .The sjfa rule  states that the member club Must have priority. Clydebank would no longer be a member club

[Guest]

Syngenta hire the park gogsy, they aren't a ground share. Dunipace are the sole tenants/owners.

Boness United Juniors, Sauchie Juniors and Syngenta juniors don't.

[Ginaro]

1 minute ago, sweep said:

So in your wealth of knowledge who would get priority at Holm park if Clydebank left the juniors .The sjfa rule  states that the member club Must have priority. Clydebank would no longer be a member club

Who gets priority at Holm Park at the moment when both clubs are SJFA members? The same applies to Cumbernauld/Rob Roy, and Benburb/Rossvale. Plus there's also Montrose Roselea.

Normally it's the club higher up the pyramid gets priority - which is which Alloa get priority over BSC Glasgow and Edinburgh City get priority over Spartans (despite it being Spartans ground).

It isn't that hard to organise fixtures to cope with groundsharing now the West has a competent fixtures secretary.

[Burnie_man]

7 minutes ago, Marshmallo said:

If the boundary line is moved, would you allow a separate league for Dundee at tier 6?

In fact that's not even a good example - the SoS already has teams from WoS territory. It is an existing feeder for the West of the country.

It's on record that the EoS would support the formation of a Tayside League at tier 6, same as a WoSFL, but then you potentially have 4 feeders into the LL. Probably why the EoS didn't support the line being moved.

A Tayside league at tier 6 could of course feed into the HL, or a combined North/Tayside Superleague at tier 6.

Edited January 31, 2020 by Burnie_man

[Jerry Macguire]

41 minutes ago, gogsy said:

If a West of Scotland Association is set up there could be a WOS cup for BSC to play in.

Plenty of regional cups already we could enter. Fortunately we don't. Best off leaving it for the wee teams  eh gogsy

[Che Dail]

2 minutes ago, sweep said:

So in your wealth of knowledge who would get priority at Holm park if Clydebank left the juniors .The sjfa rule  states that the member club Must have priority. Clydebank would no longer be a member club

Would Yoker actually stay in the Juniors? In a licensed accredited ground, but getting zero benefit.

Watching Clydebank progress in the Scottish Cup,  "Was it just the £50k you got this year? We're staying in the Juniors because, eh".

[Tutankhamen]

Some seriously out of touch folks on here if they think the West Juniors are linking up with the South of Scotland League 

[Burnie_man]

9 minutes ago, sweep said:

So in your wealth of knowledge who would get priority at Holm park if Clydebank left the juniors .The sjfa rule  states that the member club Must have priority. Clydebank would no longer be a member club

It had already been pointed out that 3 Junior clubs share with 3 Senior clubs (Bo'ness, Sauchie and Sygenta). The EoS issue a fixture list and the Junior club works around that.    

Edited January 31, 2020 by Burnie_man

[Ranaldo Bairn]

5 hours ago, RealityHits said:

I follow Wealdstone, and probably my interest in the development of the Scottish pyramid relates to the fact that the Stones were involved in the setting up of what was then the Alliance Premier, now known as the National league, back in 1979.  The English Football League were quite pro pyamid, and applications were invited from clubs in the Southern League and the Northern Premier League, who had already come to an agreement that they would jointly support a single candidate to challenge Division 4 clubs seekinfg re-election, so as to avoid splitting FL members votes.  This approach resulted in the election of Wimbledon (of the SL) in 1977, and Wigan Athletic (of the NPL) in 1978.

Following the establishment of the AP, it was felt in the Non-League game that FL clubs closed ranks a bit, and no further clubs were elected untill automatic promotion (one space only) was brought in for the 86-87 season.  The NPL and SL were the strongest leagues in the North and South respectively and were semi-pro, whereas the Northern League and the Isthmian league covered some of the same areas, but were strictly amateur.  Ambitious clubs from the NL and the IL would tend to gravitate to the NPL and SL, and clubs in difficulty would go in the opposite direction.  The Isthmian League saw which way the wind was blowing and joined the pyramid in the mid-80s', today sitting alongside the NPL and the SL at levels 7-8.  The Northern League lacked the vision or ambition, and are now at levels 9-10, and one of the feeders into the NPL.

Interestingly, from a senior v junior perspective, there remained extensive overlap between the SL and the IL for many seasons;  in fact this has really only been fully resolved in the last few years.  Nevertheless, I don't recall the SL having any issues with the IL joining at the same level, despite them being a few years late to the party.  However, I think the remaining East Junior clubs would be unwise to draw any conclusions from this precedent.

Where Vinny Jones got off and running, am I right?

Anyway, i hope you get pumped at the weekend ('mon the Angels!)

[BTID]

Holm Park is not prioritised for either club it’s an equal partnership run by the HPCFA. 

[GNU_Linux]

Who gets priority at Holm Park at the moment when both clubs are SJFA members? The same applies to Cumbernauld/Rob Roy, and Benburb/Rossvale. Plus there's also Montrose Roselea.
Normally it's the club higher up the pyramid gets priority - which is which Alloa get priority over BSC Glasgow and Edinburgh City get priority over Spartans (despite it being Spartans ground).
It isn't that hard to organise fixtures to cope with groundsharing now the West has a competent fixtures secretary.

iirc for senior shares the exception is Scottish Cup where the main tenant gets priority. Thats why Edinburgh City vs Banks O'Dee was played Friday night with Spartans at home next day in same competition.