Jump to content

Junior football, what is the future?


Burnie_man

Recommended Posts

5 minutes ago, G4Mac said:

If junior clubs are willing to stay junior, based solely on the 'special feeling' they get from the junior cup and a fallacy that they will lose crowds by playing the same teams in the same league as part of the pyramid then I do genuinely give up. For years I've heard that junior football has that 'something different' to it. It really doesn't, no greater sense of community, no special place to play.... It's 11 vs 11 trying to put the ball in each others goals more than each other, to get 3 points or progress in a cup.

Spot on.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

14 hours ago, teamfinderscot said:

Currently the big teams have pushed on +1/2 maybe punching above their weight in eos. The medium to small teams most have moved and maybe some may prefer eos but the quality of football in my opinion isn’t any better. For some teams possibly worse. The east regions is getting a bad write up but most teams in the super leagues are gathering bigger crowds than in the eosfl conferences. I’d expect most super league teams to win at least half their matches in these conferences also without being disrespectful. I support football at all levels but the juniors I feel should stay the juniors as it’s got that nostalgia and a proper community feel that a lot of senior clubs maybe don’t have.

Also there’s not currently enough clubs eligible for a licence for the Scottish cup so would be replacing the magic of the junior cup for a secondary trophy (unsure what would be called if all teams moved) which won’t mean as much to the fans, again no disrespect intended.

I’m a lot younger than those people who wish to stay loyal to the grade. I just feel it’s a massive step and it could maybe signal the end for a few smaller teams. Craigroyston say they will cease at end of season, Eyemouth have taken a non playing membership. The grass isn’t always greener folks. However for the ambitious clubs with plenty money and support I’m sure they could go and do a grand job and compete. Even look at Linlithgow in the top east of Scotland league. They used to be in hat for junior cup for many seasons and have struggled a lot this season. If you look at juniors websites and how fixtures are compiled now. It’s like last year the max exodus was the boot up the backside it needed to get with the times.

You support football but think that the likes of Thornton should stay junior and not have the chance of playing their near neighbours Glenrothes ever again? The west is different as it is still a block but there's no reason why the community feel won't remain.

The South Challenge Cup would be the replacement for the Junior Cup, unless the SJFA want the Junior Cup to continue by allowing all non-SJFA member clubs to take part.

Craigroyston finished 9th and 10th in the South Division (out of 14) in their two seasons as a Junior club, so their recent EoS struggles are nothing new. http://fchd.info/CRAIGROY.HTM

Eyemouth have spent most of their seasons finishing at or near the bottom of the EoS, and as mentioned this is typical of struggles with clubs in the Borders http://fchd.info/EYEMOUTU.HTM

Linlithgow finished 9th in 2016-17 and are in the same position this season so maybe it's not a Junior/Senior problem...

And while the West have finally got their fixtures sorted, at the moment the East only has fixtures issues up to 15th February https://www.scottishjuniorfa.com/east-region/fixtures/ - so obviously no boot up the backside has occurred there.

1 hour ago, teamfinderscot said:

Just thought for a big club like Musselburgh, Scottish cup at stake and also no other eos fixtures that day to my knowledge they would’ve been along backing, yes 30 miles is a fair distance and same for 70 for the opposition, but was disappointed as I expected it to be far busier. I’m also just stating my opinion which I’m entitled to as it’s a forum. Also I attended the livingston Thornton final and most fans were Thornton and Bathgate isn’t exactly next door. I totally agree on the point with pumpherston and fauldhouse though. Netherless good to see another non league team in the cup.

No other EOS fixtures but it was always going to be a one sided game so not much neutral interest, and groundhopper types would already have been there last season on the groundhop.

Compared to the attendances of the two East Region finals, the biggest difference is that they took place on 31st May and 9th June respectively - of course you're going to get more people in the summer. Plus it was Thornton's chance to win the Fife & Lothians Cup for the first time.

Edited by Ginaro
Link to comment
Share on other sites

35 minutes ago, G4Mac said:

If junior clubs are willing to stay junior, based solely on the 'special feeling' they get from the junior cup and a fallacy that they will lose crowds by playing the same teams in the same league as part of the pyramid then I do genuinely give up. For years I've heard that junior football has that 'something different' to it. It really doesn't, no greater sense of community, no special place to play.... It's 11 vs 11 trying to put the ball in each others goals more than each other, to get 3 points or progress in a cup.

My worry is that a good chunk of the West will remain junior. The nostalgia of the juniors and probably bringing back the Ayrshire and Central leagues beneath a West Super League being too attractive to them.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

19 minutes ago, Ginaro said:

Compared to the attendances of the two East Region finals, the biggest difference is that they took place on 31st May and 9th June respectively - of course you're going to get more people in the summer. Plus it was Thornton's chance to win the Fife & Lothians Cup for the first time.

Summer and the League calendar would of been wrapped up nearly a month beforehand. Certainly the case for the seniors.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 minutes ago, FairWeatherFan said:

My worry is that a good chunk of the West will remain junior. The nostalgia of the juniors and probably bringing back the Ayrshire and Central leagues beneath a West Super League being too attractive to them.

If that is how they feel towards the Pyramid/Senior football then let them have that choice,  as long as it's going to allow clubs who do want it to have it.  Choice is never a bad thing.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 minutes ago, Burnie_man said:

If that is how they feel towards the Pyramid/Senior football then let them have that choice,  as long as it's going to allow clubs who do want it to have it.  Choice is never a bad thing.

Well that's where this WOSFL comes in. Clubs are going to get the choice now. Touch wood & fingers crossed!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 minutes ago, FairWeatherFan said:

Well that's where this WOSFL comes in. Clubs are going to get the choice now. Touch wood & fingers crossed!

We'll we may have a clearer picture come Wednesday evening. 

We know the 3 senior leagues will back it, and the SJFA probably oppose it.  Which way will the SFA swing, I'd be very surprised if they go against the wishes of their 3 senior leagues who run the Pyramid on a day-to-day basis and have come up with a sensible, workable way forward, but you never know.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

26 minutes ago, FairWeatherFan said:

My worry is that a good chunk of the West will remain junior. The nostalgia of the juniors and probably bringing back the Ayrshire and Central leagues beneath a West Super League being too attractive to them.

Let them stay, the tail shouldn't wag the dog.

Clubs that want to progress should not be being held back by people still living in 1690 Ayrshire.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 25/01/2020 at 08:08, LongTimeLurker said:

There are no existing clubs to accomodate unlike the EoS scenario so if this unfolds as you have described they could use the final tables for this season's to guide the creation of divisions, if it's only WRSJFA clubs.

Things get more complicated if SoS clubs (Bonnyton Thistle would be prime suspects), Glasgow Uni and some amateur and/or youth clubs apply, so guess that could justify the use of parallel conferences for year one if numbers were > 18.

 

It is unlikely that Glasgow Uni (GUFC) would apply to join a new WoSL at the present time, should this league be created for 2020/21

As background information :- 

* GUFC did consider applying to join the newly created Lowland League in 2013/14, but decided not to do so

* that whilst its Garscube Sports Complex  has the potential (and size) to be developed and used as a good SLL football ground, it was felt(in 2013) that this would have had an adverse impact upon the other sports, which also use the Garscube facilities on a regular basis

* GUFC was, and still is, committed to participating fully in the national universities sports  competitions, especially football. Over commitment was a concern  

* there would also be the additional cost implications (the travel, recruiting quality/dedicated football coaching staff, etc)  for the Uni, if its 1st XI decided to leave the Caledonian Amateur League, and join the Lowland League instead,

* also, the 'message'  from the SJFA and the West Junior clubs, was that the new pyramid was as an 'irrelevance', which should be 'ignored , or strangled at birth.  The ongoing  future of the new SLL was unknown and uncertain in 2013.  (NB The EoSL was also  not considered viable, particularly as a lot of its clubs were based in the borders).

Most of the above reasons for not joining the pyramid in 2013, haven't changed significantly since , so it is unlikely that they will consider moving now.  GUFC considers the Caledonian Amateur League to be of an appropriately good standard, and it uses the Excelsior Stadium (Airdrie) for key matches..

 

 

 

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, FairWeatherFan said:

My worry is that a good chunk of the West will remain junior. The nostalgia of the juniors and probably bringing back the Ayrshire and Central leagues beneath a West Super League being too attractive to them.

Nothing wrong with some clubs remaining junior.  All football clubs need to consider what is best for them, and best for their fans. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Burnie_man said:

We'll we may have a clearer picture come Wednesday evening. 

We know the 3 senior leagues will back it, and the SJFA probably oppose it.  Which way will the SFA swing, I'd be very surprised if they go against the wishes of their 3 senior leagues who run the Pyramid on a day-to-day basis and have come up with a sensible, workable way forward, but you never know.

If the LL do indeed propose this at the PWG on Wednesday and it is supported by the EoSFL (which I imagine is pretty much a given) and the SoSFL (perhaps not so much of a given?) then it really could break the logjam. The SJFA may very well oppose it on the grounds that it doesn't allow all of their members into the pyramid in one fell swoop and, as a consequence, allow them to retain the degree of relevance they so fervently wish to have - but surely that's not the aim of the PWG anyway, the aim is to create a West feeder to the Pyramid and with the SJFA steadfastly standing in the way of this by dint of their insistence that everything must be rejigged to suit their demands another way must be found and this appears to be it.

Should the SFA fail to back such a plan, against the wishes of member clubs playing in leagues already in the Pyramid in favour of backing SJFA demands re their entry, an SJFA with only one SFA member club, then it really is a wee coven of pals along the Hampden corridor from each other contriving to scratch each others backs.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

16 minutes ago, Robert James said:

 

It is unlikely that Glasgow Uni (GUFC) would apply to join a new WoSL at the present time, should this league be created for 2020/21

As background information :- 

* GUFC did consider applying to join the newly created Lowland League in 2013/14, but decided not to do so

* that whilst its Garscube Sports Complex  has the potential (and size) to be developed and used as a good SLL football ground, it was felt(in 2013) that this would have had an adverse impact upon the other sports, which also use the Garscube facilities on a regular basis

* GUFC was, and still is, committed to participating fully in the national universities sports  competitions, especially football. Over commitment was a concern  

* there would also be the additional cost implications (the travel, recruiting quality/dedicated football coaching staff, etc)  for the Uni, if its 1st XI decided to leave the Caledonian Amateur League, and join the Lowland League instead,

* also, the 'message'  from the SJFA and the West Junior clubs, was that the new pyramid was as an 'irrelevance', which should be 'ignored , or strangled at birth.  The ongoing  future of the new SLL was unknown and uncertain in 2013.  (NB The EoSL was also  not considered viable, particularly as a lot of its clubs were based in the borders).

Most of the above reasons for not joining the pyramid in 2013, haven't changed significantly since , so it is unlikely that they will consider moving now.  GUFC considers the Caledonian Amateur League to be of an appropriately good standard, and it uses the Excelsior Stadium (Airdrie) for key matches..

Surely as an SFA Licenced club, they should be using Airdrie for ALL matches? That is their registered and licenced home ground and therefore should be playing all "first team" matches there.  Do they?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

16 minutes ago, FairWeatherFan said:

Well that's where this WOSFL comes in. Clubs are going to get the choice now. Touch wood & fingers crossed!

I prefer the choice if there's a WOS set up, if 10 join, 20 join or 40 is fine as long as there would be enough to have a league. The one s who don't want to go to the pyramid/seniors can then just stay and get on with it while the others who move get on with it as well

Link to comment
Share on other sites

41 minutes ago, Burnie_man said:

Surely as an SFA Licenced club, they should be using Airdrie for ALL matches? That is their registered and licenced home ground and therefore should be playing all "first team" matches there.  Do they?

I'm pretty sure they do. I gave their fixtures a skin a while back and they were all Airdrie.

Which is one of the reasons I doubt they'd apply. Can their agreement work around the increase of games, set fixture lists and postponements?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

42 minutes ago, Bestsinceslicebread said:

I prefer the choice if there's a WOS set up, if 10 join, 20 join or 40 is fine as long as there would be enough to have a league. The one s who don't want to go to the pyramid/seniors can then just stay and get on with it while the others who move get on with it as well

I feel the same way. Eventually there will come some sort of link up. There's no need to get things done all at once.

The advantage of the lowland / highland sub groups. Is that the LL/EOS/SOS can say a WoS completes the Lowland pyramid. It's up to the Highland subgroup to sort the North.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Some exciting Junior Cup ties with Bo'ness. Could be the same again when they come up with a national tournament for the lower tiered Seniors.

As much as I want the pyramid to work and I have encourage people at my club to move with whatever is coming forward out of the PWG, I do find some of the comments ‘doing down’ junior football distasteful. As a grade has it seen it’s day, of course and that is the fault of a great many people for not moving with the times. But junior football has been part of a great many communities of a great number of years with many great players starting their careers at that level. It brought communities together and to dismiss that is totally wrong. (Especially it seems by some posters on here who haven’t been involved with a junior club)

Is it different or special? well that’s open to everyone’s interpretation but I won’t forget some of the moments, both high and low, that watching Arthurlie play in Junior football has given me.

Lets look to the future with whatever comes from the PWG but let’s not forget or attempt to rewrite the past. The Junior grade was a good product but I think it’s time is coming to an end (then again who knows!!)
Link to comment
Share on other sites

No other EOS fixtures but it was always going to be a one sided game so not much neutral interest, and groundhopper types would already have been there last season on the groundhop.
Compared to the attendances of the two East Region finals, the biggest difference is that they took place on 31st May and 9th June respectively - of course you're going to get more people in the summer. Plus it was Thornton's chance to win the Fife & Lothians Cup for the first time.

All clubs in the ERJFA were issued with their complete seasons fixtures in June 2019, as with the EOS the fixtures are subject to change. The region only show forthcoming fixtures on their website
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Surely as an SFA Licenced club, they should be using Airdrie for ALL matches? That is their registered and licenced home ground and therefore should be playing all "first team" matches there.  Do they?
I think, technically, you only have to play at a licenced ground for licenced competitions matches.

Stirling Uni, for example, often utilised the Gannochy in years gone by for cup ties, rather than Forthbank or Falkirk.

Perhaps it's not as common these days and it would make sense that all games (or certainly the majority) are played at the licenced ground, regardless of competition.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 minutes ago, Vollyman said:

All clubs in the ERJFA were issued with their complete seasons fixtures in June 2019, as with the EOS the fixtures are subject to change. The region only show forthcoming fixtures on their website

Sorry, you're right and I remember seeing the graphics on social media. In which case there's no excuse for the region and SJFA websites not to show all the scheduled fixtures, especially with some clubs not having the fixtures on their website or not having a website at all.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

8 minutes ago, gaz5 said:

I think, technically, you only have to play at a licenced ground for licenced competitions matches.

I'm not sure that is the case, because you need to provide documentation like lease agreements, security of tenure docs, deeds etc for your licenced home ground.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...