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Junior football, what is the future?


Burnie_man

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1 hour ago, Che Dail said:

Ok, because there is a better way to do it: form a league between Aberdeen and Dundee areas now, affiliate to the pyramid (Like EoS is) so that clubs can get licensed, but with a view to ultimately growing it in parallel with the HFL, not necessarily as a feeder. 

Same as what is being proposed (as a potential long-term solution) for LLW and LLE.

Problem solved, travel nightmare averted.

There's absolutely no need for a separate tier 5 league covering Angus/Dundee. There could perhaps be a need for a tier 6 league. Tier 5 is the level below the national league.: clubs should expect to do some travelling if promoted to that league. Scotland is a small country, with a lot of clubs clustered in the Central Belt, mostly an hour or two away from each other. Just because there's a couple of clubs on the peripheries doesn't mean we should exclude them or pointlessly subdivide the country into more unequal regions, geographically and population-based.

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18 minutes ago, Arthurlie1981 said:

The setting up of a new league doesn’t threaten the juniors (just now) was the opinion of many clubs when the LL was set up and will be the same just now for a new WoSL.

I don’t understand the vailed threats to junior clubs on here from certain posters and then having a go at West clubs (like Clydebank) for not agreeing to what the EoS/LL want. It’s up to each club to decide what to do and nobody (including me) can tell them what to do.

What veiled threats?   A WoSFL would provide clubs in the west with a choice, stay Junior or move Senior.  As you say, each club would have to decide what's best for them if it comes to pass.

The Bankies seem to be in the midst of an identity crisis. On one hand they were threatened with eviction by TJ when they first talked about moving to Senior football, then one of their board subsequently assumes a senior position in Junior football despite this, then they back the SJFA (who previously threatened them) to see them right via "option Z". Meanwhile, Bankies fans I know personally want them as far away from TJ and the SJFA as possible.  Ultimately it's for them to work out what they want to do.

Edited by Burnie_man
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1 hour ago, craigkillie said:
1 hour ago, Che Dail said:
Somebody said £600k of cash private money was distributed to 10 SFL 2 clubs last season. 
That's a full size 3G.
Put one on each pitch every year and in a decade you have 10 more 3Gs.
So you get1000s more hours of football playing time all year round which is needed for kids to develop.

The Scotland captain was a product of that "wasted" League 2 money - who's to say that if Queen's Park weren't playing in a national league with so much exposure, he would have been picked up by Dundee United so quickly?

Andy Robertson is a product of the Celtic youth system - apparently released for being too small which is comical obviously.

Queens Park provided a stepping stone for his future career. Neither the club nor the league earned him the move to Dundee United, HE did it through his own self-belief, persistence, hard work and determination.

Queens Park provided a platform for him to play for a season, but it could just have easily been in a regional T4 instead of a national one, and for the same club - the competition and standard would be similar.

Bobby Linn played for Ballingry in East premier Juniors - way too good for that level and moved up. Simon Murray at Tayport to Arbroath, Dundee Utd and Hibs. 

The cream rises to the top.

 

Edited by Che Dail
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1 hour ago, ArabAuslander said:

You've got to love some of the hot takes coming from this thread, League Two being regionalised 😂,

What, regionalise T4 like they do in other countries but NEVER in Scotland cos football here is top class, important, and special?

 

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1 hour ago, Marten said:

Some people are trying to run before we can properly walk. Let's first finally get tier 6 and below sorted so the existing tier 5 leagues can become stronger. Any other ideas that are being floated around like automatic SPFL relegation, regionalisation at tier 4, splitting the LL and so on will only ever have a chance of happening  when tier 6 and below are properly in place on a nationwide level so the better clubs will find their way up and tier 5 gets strengthened. For example, regionalising tier 4 is something that has absolutely no chance of happening at present. If tier 5 gets much stronger (like with the strong west teams getting there), clubs in SPFL2 might start feeling threatened and might push for tier 4 to be expanded.

Time will tell what will happen, but tier 6 needs to be the focus now, anything else will only be a long term thing.

Agree with all of this - fair enough - you're right 👍

 

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52 minutes ago, Cyclizine said:

There's absolutely no need for a separate tier 5 league covering Angus/Dundee. There could perhaps be a need for a tier 6 league. Tier 5 is the level below the national league.: clubs should expect to do some travelling if promoted to that league. Scotland is a small country, with a lot of clubs clustered in the Central Belt, mostly an hour or two away from each other. Just because there's a couple of clubs on the peripheries doesn't mean we should exclude them or pointlessly subdivide the country into more unequal regions, geographically and population-based.

I think we'll just have to agree to disagree - you're entitled to an opinion and so am I. 

The point has been made that it is academic just now anyway because there are other priorities to be focussed on for next season.

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Bobby Linn played for Ballingry in East premier Juniors - way too good for that level and moved up. Simon Murray at Tayport to Arbroath, Dundee Utd and Hibs. 
The cream rises to the top.
 

Linn was a well known entity in the lower leagues when he signed for ballingry, he didn’t sign for them cos he was lacking offers at a higher level, but as a result of having a big fat cheque waved in his face. When that batshit mental spending came crumbling down he returned to the level he was always meant to be playing at.
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What veiled threats?   A WoSFL would provide clubs in the west with a choice, stay Junior or move Senior.  As you say, each club would have to decide what's best for them if it comes to pass.
The Bankies seem to be in the midst of an identity crisis. On one hand they were threatened with eviction by TJ when they first talked about moving to Senior football, then one of their board subsequently assumes a senior position in Junior football despite this, then they back the SJFA (who previously threatened them) to see them right via "option Z". Meanwhile, Bankies fans I know personally want them as far away from TJ and the SJFA as possible.  Ultimately it's for them to work out what they want to do.

That narrative makes it sound like Bankies were bought off by a position on the sjfa board which is implicitly incorrect, Matt was in place prior to that vote taking place and has never acted in anything other than our clubs best interests in anything he’s done. I agree with your views on the pyramid in general but youre not being entirely accurate in terms of Clydebank. There’s no identity crisis, we were burned before for being all out breakaway and we cant do that again. Its a reasonable position.
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17 minutes ago, the jambo-rocker said:

Would there be anything to stop the SoSFL rebranding as the WoSFL and starting taking applicants?

That could work, but my understanding is that the SoS may not be on the same page as the EoS (and if Burnie_man's info is accurate the LL) on these issues and are probably happy keeping a D&G focus. They haven't objected to WRSJFA entry in the way that the EoS have to ERSJFA entry.

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3 minutes ago, Inanimate Carbon Rod said:


That narrative makes it sound like Bankies were bought off by a position on the sjfa board which is implicitly incorrect, Matt was in place prior to that vote taking place and has never acted in anything other than our clubs best interests in anything he’s done. I agree with your views on the pyramid in general but youre not being entirely accurate in terms of Clydebank. There’s no identity crisis, we were burned before for being all out breakaway and we cant do that again. Its a reasonable position.

It's just my observations based on views from several Bankies fans I know and posts on here.   There is undoubtedly a split in opinion and there's a significant portion of your support who want to get away from Junior football and into Senior asap as per the vote taken some time ago, which has yet to be acted upon which for them is very frustrating.   A new, independent WoSFL would provide exactly what was voted for.  

However, it's for Clydebank fans to decide, and this isn't solely about Clydebank.

Do you think a new WoSFL would attract the minimum 12 clubs?

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7 minutes ago, LongTimeLurker said:

That could work, but my understanding is that the SoS may not be on the same page as the EoS (and if Burnie_man's info is accurate the LL) on these issues and are probably happy keeping a D&G focus. They haven't objected to WRSJFA entry in the way that the EoS have to ERSJFA entry.

because its not exactly the same. Two clubs who crossover because Bonnyton wanted to be in the pyramid. and Kello Rovers didn't isn't the same as a bunch of teams from West Lothian playing in each grade and putting them in the pyramid. Stop going back to old shit pricey

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32 minutes ago, parsforlife said:


Linn was a well known entity in the lower leagues when he signed for ballingry, he didn’t sign for them cos he was lacking offers at a higher level, but as a result of having a big fat cheque waved in his face. When that batshit mental spending came crumbling down he returned to the level he was always meant to be playing at.

Indeed.

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What veiled threats?   A WoSFL would provide clubs in the west with a choice, stay Junior or move Senior.  As you say, each club would have to decide what's best for them if it comes to pass.
The Bankies seem to be in the midst of an identity crisis. On one hand they were threatened with eviction by TJ when they first talked about moving to Senior football, then one of their board subsequently assumes a senior position in Junior football despite this, then they back the SJFA (who previously threatened them) to see them right via "option Z". Meanwhile, Bankies fans I know personally want them as far away from TJ and the SJFA as possible.  Ultimately it's for them to work out what they want to do.


The veiled threats threats such as the LL will set up a new league in the west. Who are they to do that while discussions are ongoing?

Yeah it is for Bankies to work out but you come on here as someone who isn’t involved at any club in the west telling us what to do!! Is that not the same as what your having a go at Lurker for? Imo your just as bad as him. You are both spouting your opinion on this matter rather than facts.

I want the pyramid to happen and I want my club to be involved but why should we risk our futures by walking away from our known league to join either the SOS with the additional cost of travel and loss of revenue or to try and set up a new league while discussions are ongoing at PWG level. Until that ends and the SFA say we want to set up a west feeder then it’s a moot point.

Your hatred of TJ has blinded you to what this is really about, the creation of a workable pyramid that works for all, not just you and your hope of putting TJ out of work.
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Just now, Arthurlie1981 said:

The veiled threats threats such as the LL will set up a new league in the west. Who are they to do that while discussions are ongoing?

Yeah it is for Bankies to work out but you come on here as someone who isn’t involved at any club in the west telling us what to do!! Is that not the same as what your having a go at Lurker for? Imo your just as bad as him. You are both spouting your opinion on this matter rather than facts.

I want the pyramid to happen and I want my club to be involved but why should we risk our futures by walking away from our known league to join either the SOS with the additional cost of travel and loss of revenue or to try and set up a new league while discussions are ongoing at PWG level. Until that ends and the SFA say we want to set up a west feeder then it’s a moot point.

Your hatred of TJ has blinded you to what this is really about, the creation of a workable pyramid that works for all, not just you and your hope of putting TJ out of work.

 

The LL proposing (note, proposing)  to set-up a WoSFL is a fact, not a threat and they are quite at liberty to provide alternative suggestions to the PWG, that what it's all about.  The LL not splitting in two is a fact, not a threat (they control what happens to their league set-up, nobody else).  I haven't mentioned joining the SoS.

You have quite a bizarre definition of what constitutes a threat, which is an odd term to use in this context anyway.  Neither am I telling anyone what to do, I've been clear in what is just my opinion, which is what a forum is about.  This has nothing to do with TJ nor my opinion of him.  Does that cover your rant?

After you put your foot in it last year blaming the EoS for this, that and the next thing which you then had to retract, you perhaps should calm it a little and not repeat the same mistake.

Play the ball, not the man.

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5 minutes ago, Arthurlie1981 said:

 


The veiled threats threats such as the LL will set up a new league in the west. Who are they to do that while discussions are ongoing?

I want the pyramid to happen and I want my club to be involved but why should we risk our futures by walking away from our known league to join either the SOS with the additional cost of travel and loss of revenue or to try and set up a new league while discussions are ongoing at PWG level. Until that ends and the SFA say we want to set up a west feeder then it’s a moot point.

 

These pyramid negotiations date back to April or May 2018.

It's gone from everyone in at Tier 6 to rearranging Tier 5 to suit the SJFA.

By the sounds of things the LL/EOS and SJFA  are going into the next PWG meeting on the 29th with opposing views.

That's another stalemate and there probably won't be another PWG meeting until March. So just like 2019-20, 2020-21 has the potential for another wasted season.

An independent WOSFL would basically solve the stalemate. Clubs join up that want in the pyramid. The SJFA remains outside as an independent body with North, East and West Regions.

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3 hours ago, Che Dail said:

Somebody said £600k of cash private money was distributed to 10 SFL 2 clubs last season. 

That's a full size 3G.

Put one on each pitch every year and in a decade you have 10 more 3Gs.

So you get1000s more hours of football playing time all year round which is needed for kids to develop.

I get why you are saying that and it sounds great but you have absolute no idea how it works at youth level unless you are fully involved.

This is the worst year I've know for teams folding at grassroots level. The Syfa aren't interested, more like jobs for the boys, same as the SFA and the councils aren't interested.
The prices charged by councils to kids is an absolute joke. boys at 17in the council where I operate in are being charged nearly £120 to play a game of football and £40 for a referee and then you have the training, think its £45 per 1/3s of a park per night, so per week you either pay £230 a week when playing at home or when away paying £110.  The pricing alone is just one example.

There needs to be an over hall of the Syfa the way it works and that wont happen. They make decisions and rules that harm youth football and do not want to over commit to anything. I am experienced in producing lads from youth football to either junior or senior level but the SYFA wouldn't listen to any of our suggestions or complaints. They make the decisions and say keep using them even if they don't work.

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