Junior football, what is the future?

[LongTimeLurker]

26 minutes ago, Marten said:

In the Lowland League we'd be facing trips to Dalbeattie & Gretna, ...

Under Option Z they are in the LL West catchment, while Lochee United are in the LL East catchment.

Edited January 21, 2020 by LongTimeLurker

[pipedreamer]

2 minutes ago, LongTimeLurker said:

Under Option Z they are in the LL West catchment.

Option Z has absolutely zero chance of happening. The Lowland League has no appetite for this and they are never going to reduce their chances of promotion up the way for the sake of the SJFA who have talked down at them through the whole process. 

[12 Angry Men]

I would caution that those who are all but promoting Option Z as this years “done deal” – those promoting it by default on here with what they believe is their forensic examination of some rather dubious ‘facts’ and those who, apparently, are promoting it in meetings and elsewhere as having the backing of both the SFA and the LL – might end up helping put at risk once again the WRSJFA in its entirety walking through the open door of Tier 6/7/8/9 entry. Those holding open that door, the LL and the EoSFL, could just as easily take what would appear to be the continuing antipathy of the SJFA as a final provocation and decide that it’s time to simply let it swing shut and open another one, perhaps by doing what has previously been mooted and proposing to set-up up a WoSFL and inviting applicants? This, ultimately, would offer a much simpler and clearer way forward with those WRSJFA clubs who wish access to the Pyramid and to the wider Scottish game applying and those who wish to remain in Junior football doing just that.

 

As has always been the case, this would continue to leave ERSJFA clubs south of the Tay with an open route into the Pyramid via application to the EoSFL. North of Tay ERSJFA clubs merging with the NRSJFA clubs and providing a Tier 6 feeder to the HL seems an eminently sensible solution to me, particularly as these clubs already compete against each other in a district cup competition without [any?] issues.

[LongTimeLurker]

10 hours ago, Bestsinceslicebread said:

It was explained to me from 4 different members of 4 different west junior teams who were at Thursdays meeting that a west region management member stated to them that Option Z is backed by the SFA and Lowland league so that is the best one to go for.  I do not believe this for one minute that the Lowland league and SFA would back Option Z, why, what have they to gain?

The SFA provided it as an option so are known to see it as a feasible way ahead under certain circumstances. Think it was the SPFL that was being claimed as backing it along with the LL. This is how I responded to Burnie_man on this topic yesterday:

16 hours ago, LongTimeLurker said:

Have explained why I think a lot of LL clubs might turn out to be be OK with a split. Fear of future relegation and loss of status long term. Easier to be 1 of 32 than 1 of 16. Think the clubs based in the west would also very much welcome games against Talbot and Pollok rather than Vale of Leithen and Gala. Where the SPFL is concerned what the LL East and LL West would do is get the best fifteen or so junior and recent ex-junior EoS clubs into tier 5 straight away rather than one at a time over the next fifteen years creating stronger leagues to be relegated into and hence a softer crash landing.

 

 

[Marshmallo]

Scotland won't jump 30 places in the world rankings if Elgin are playing Brora instead of Annan.

[AlanCamelonfan]

8 hours ago, Che Dail said:

Because for a game of league football at this level it would be a complete waste of time, energy and money (which is scarce, and valuable).  Just pointless - hardly anyone would want to go, not even the players. 

Ask Lochee and Broughty to join the pyramid with a trip to Wick dangling as a carrot? No thanks.

But a trip to gretna would be

[Burnie_man]

56 minutes ago, LongTimeLurker said:

The SFA provided it as an option so are known to see it as a feasible way ahead under certain circumstances. Think it was the SPFL that was being claimed as backing it along with the LL. This is how I responded to Burnie_man on this topic yesterday:

The LL have already met, and rejected the suggestion of splitting. They have no interest in option Z.  It was a Petrie brain fart and only Petrie, not SFA or SPFL policy.

[Burnie_man]

1 hour ago, 12 Angry Men said:

I would caution that those who are all but promoting Option Z as this years “done deal” – those promoting it by default on here with what they believe is their forensic examination of some rather dubious ‘facts’ and those who, apparently, are promoting it in meetings and elsewhere as having the backing of both the SFA and the LL – might end up helping put at risk once again the WRSJFA in its entirety walking through the open door of Tier 6/7/8/9 entry. Those holding open that door, the LL and the EoSFL, could just as easily take what would appear to be the continuing antipathy of the SJFA as a final provocation and decide that it’s time to simply let it swing shut and open another one, perhaps by doing what has previously been mooted and proposing to set-up up a WoSFL and inviting applicants? This, ultimately, would offer a much simpler and clearer way forward with those WRSJFA clubs who wish access to the Pyramid and to the wider Scottish game applying and those who wish to remain in Junior football doing just that.

 

As has always been the case, this would continue to leave ERSJFA clubs south of the Tay with an open route into the Pyramid via application to the EoSFL. North of Tay ERSJFA clubs merging with the NRSJFA clubs and providing a Tier 6 feeder to the HL seems an eminently sensible solution to me, particularly as these clubs already compete against each other in a district cup competition without [any?] issues.

 

Don't rule out the possibility of an independent West of Scotland Football League at tier 6 for next season.

[Cyclizine]

9 hours ago, Che Dail said:

Because for a game of league football at this level it would be a complete waste of time, energy and money (which is scarce, and valuable).  Just pointless - hardly anyone would want to go, not even the players. 

Ask Lochee and Broughty to join the pyramid with a trip to Wick dangling as a carrot? No thanks.

That's not an explanation, mate.

[Inanimate Carbon Rod]

 
Don't rule out the possibility of an independent West of Scotland Football League at tier 6 for next season.

Cant see it happening.

[Burnie_man]

Just now, Inanimate Carbon Rod said:

Cant see it happening.

You may be surprised.  It doesn't need SJFA buy-in, and provides west Juniors with a choice.  Neither does it rely on west clubs having to do all the leg work in setting it up.

[Inanimate Carbon Rod]

You may be surprised.  It doesn't need SJFA buy-in, and provides west Juniors with a choice.  Neither does it rely on west clubs having to do all the leg work in setting it up.

You’d never convince 12 clubs by the end of the season and the sfa/sjfa seem incapable of holding meetings less than months apart so the timescales involved make it highly unlikely. Im not against the idea personally but like a LLW and LLE i can’t see it happening.

[FairWeatherFan]

The best bet for a WOSFL at this point is the EOS/LL vote for a west league at tier 6 (again). The SJFA votes for Tier 5 split.

Negotiations are at an impasse once more. SFA sides with its members and goes around setting up a WOSFL in the same manner as the formation of the Lowland.

[gaz5]

You’d never convince 12 clubs by the end of the season and the sfa/sjfa seem incapable of holding meetings less than months apart so the timescales involved make it highly unlikely. Im not against the idea personally but like a LLW and LLE i can’t see it happening.

You're assuming you would need to convince 12 Junior clubs to begin with? Some non junior teams may see it as an opportunity to get in early?

Might be a case of opening it up for application and if you get enough interest, junior or otherwise, the West feeder issue is resolved and any juniors not applying have missed their chance for Tier 6 next season. Then you are into a situation as happened in the East when Kelty moved over wondering what will happen the year after.

[LongTimeLurker]

1 hour ago, Burnie_man said:

The LL have already met, and rejected the suggestion of splitting. They have no interest in option Z.  It was a Petrie brain fart and only Petrie, not SFA or SPFL policy.

If your info is accurate that will make for an interesting meeting at the end of the month, because Option Z is only likely to be viable if the LL splits or is split. Hopefully we'll get to see the minutes again.

[Ross.]

11 hours ago, Robert James said:

Does the SJFA publish any Minutes from these meetings ?

In my opinion Option Z is just a clever SJFA/WRJFA strategy (con ?) aimed at creating another diversion, in order to delay the West from joining the pyramid for another year or two.  This new ruse may well turn out to be successful.  Very sad.

As an aside, does anyone have any information about the outcome of the Clydebank meeting allegedly held yesterday ?

 

 

11 hours ago, Bestsinceslicebread said:

Yip a friend of mine who was at the meeting told that nothing was implemented in regards to Clydebank going separately. lot of miss mash and chat which looks like, sounds like they are going to wait for the outcome of OptionZ. But isn't the Clydebank chairman one of the SJFA guys in power, if so then he would want it to go along the Option Z way, well I would expect.
I'm honestly sick and tired of all the power struggles and agendas 

Wasn't at the meeting and haven't really looked in great detail at what was discussed, beyond the fact that we need to continue working on Holm Park before we are in a position to do anything that involves rejoining the senior game.

I'm not entirely sure how this will play out, other than being certain the final destination is somewhere within the pyramid system. Right now I just want us to make sure we have the facilities available and ready so that we can jump in with both feet at the first real opportunity for us to do so. Everything else right now is just noise.

Edited January 21, 2020 by Ross.

[Burnie_man]

20 minutes ago, Inanimate Carbon Rod said:

You’d never convince 12 clubs by the end of the season and the sfa/sjfa seem incapable of holding meetings less than months apart so the timescales involved make it highly unlikely. Im not against the idea personally but like a LLW and LLE i can’t see it happening.

26 clubs left the ERJFA in a much shorter timescale, LL was set-up in a similar timescale. 

Also, who knows if there are large community clubs out there who would be tempted to start an adult side (like Inverkeithing, BSC, Colts etc).   Overall I think you'd get the minimum of 12 easily.

 

[Dev]

17 minutes ago, FairWeatherFan said:

The best bet for a WOSFL at this point is the EOS/LL vote for a west league at tier 6 (again). The SJFA votes for Tier 5 split.

Negotiations are at an impasse once more. SFA sides with its members and goes around setting up a WOSFL in the same manner as the formation of the Lowland.

It's the Lowland League/SoS/EoS which are in the PWG meetings so they can instigate this even if the SJFA doesn't like it or wish to co-operate with it.

There is also the argument that the SJFA isn't capable of organising anything in an open and responsible way, which seems to have been proved again at the recent West Juniors meeting. It's final straw time so watch out for an independent WoS for 2020/21.

[Black & Red Socks]

5 minutes ago, Ross. said:

Right now I just want us to make sure we have the facilities available and ready so that we can jump in with both feet at the first real opportunity for us to do so. Everything else right now is just noise.

Potentially the first real opportunity you talk about might be coming sooner than you think and might very well be taken out of the SJFA's hands. For Junior clubs with ambition to join the Pyramid the end game may be coming and the time for decision making will be sooner than many think, what's happening is much more than just noise and Clydebank may be well advised to understand that.

[Ross.]

Just now, Black & Red Socks said:

Potentially the first real opportunity you talk about might be coming sooner than you think and might very well be taken out of the SJFA's hands. For Junior clubs with ambition to join the Pyramid the end game may be coming and the time for decision making will be sooner than many think, what's happening is much more than just noise and Clydebank may be well advised to understand that.

From our point of view, until we have the facilities available, it is just noise. I hope you are correct, and suspect you probably are, but if we can't meet the basic requirements then it's no good to us.