Junior football, what is the future?

[Marten]

29 minutes ago, Dev said:

No. I wasn't thinking that there should be a merger of the top North and north of Taybridge Juniors. They need not to travel outside their areas at the level beneath the Highland League. They would be separate feeder leagues to the HL.

Personally (assuming the boundary stays in place), I'd prefer a merger. Travelling to Aberdeen isn't any further than to the southern ERJFA teams (pre-split/exodus). Tayside is too small an area for a separate tier 6 league. I'd have a combined North/Tayside superleague and then regionalisation below that.

Edited January 20, 2020 by Marten
typo

[Burnie_man]

1 hour ago, LongTimeLurker said:

 If they are being pressured to be on board by next season it shows the powers that be at Hampden think a fully integrated pyramid is very close to happening now.

No they don't, they have sent out 4 suggestions to league bodies to see if there is consensus anywhere to try and work out next steps, they've also asked for opinions on the HL/LL line.

None of that suggests that a "fully integrated Pyramid is close to happening", probably the opposite in fact given the WRJFA non-debate last week.

Edited January 20, 2020 by Burnie_man

[Burnie_man]

37 minutes ago, ShrimpLok said:

Although of course Scone Thistle are in the LL area so without a change to the HL / LL boundary they'd actually be needing to apply for EOS membership or remain in the ERJFA rump South of Tay league (despite being north of the Tay). 

True, was just a cut and paste and didn't pick that up.

[Burnie_man]

13 minutes ago, Marten said:

Personally (assuming the boundary stays in plays), I'd prefer a merger. Travelling to Aberdeen isn't any further than to the southern ERJFA teams (pre-split/exodus). Tayside is too small an area for a separate tier 6 league. I'd have a combined North/Tayside superleague and then regionalisation below that.

Travel time from Dundee to Aberdeen is the same as Dundee to Livingston. Angus clubs obviously closer to Aberdeen,  It's a no brainer really.

[Marten]

10 minutes ago, Burnie_man said:

Travel time from Dundee to Aberdeen is the same as Dundee to Livingston. Angus clubs obviously closer to Aberdeen,  It's a no brainer really.

I've driven both to Aberdeen and Livingston (and surrounding WL areas) a fair few times in the last year or so, both for football and non-football reasons. I find Aberdeen easier to be honest as at times driving from Dundee to West Lothian can get quite busy.

[GNU_Linux]

From what I've observed of the north theres much less attachment to the grade vs west/whats left of the east. Also another difference is that movement between grades is more common whether thats junior to senior or amateur/welfare to junior. Of the current Highland League 4 are ex-junior (Cove also had a junior season). Huntly may be ex-junior too but I'm unsure whether the league they played in pre-HL days was junior or amateur.

Tl;dr it's a bit different to other parts of Scotland.

[Che Dail]

POSSIBLE ROADMAP:

Season 2020/21 - Aberdeen & Dundee Juniors to form a 'Superleague', feeding into the HFL; West Juniors join the pyramid exactly as they are, feeding into the LL.  East Juniors (West Lothian and Fife join EoS league)

Season 2021/22 - Continue with the league structure, clubs progress towards SFA Licence

Season 2022/23 - Dissolve L2 and promote the LL and HL to tier 4 to look something like this (based on current standings):

[Marten]

5 minutes ago, GNU_Linux said:

From what I've observed of the north theres much less attachment to the grade vs west/whats left of the east. Also another difference is that movement between grades is more common whether thats junior to senior or amateur/welfare to junior. Of the current Highland League 4 are ex-junior (Cove also had a junior season). Huntly may be ex-junior too but I'm unsure whether the league they played in pre-HL days was junior or amateur.

Tl;dr it's a bit different to other parts of Scotland.

According to Wikipedia (I know...), Huntly have been HFL from the start. Formed in 1928 and immediately accepted to the Highland League.

[GNU_Linux]

According to Wikipedia (I know...), Huntly have been HFL from the start. Formed in 1928 and immediately accepted to the Highland League.

I meant Keith, my bad. Keith formed 1910 playing in the Huntly & District League joining the Highland League in 1924.

[HTG]

The only reasonable way that the HL/LL boundary can be moved further north so that Tayside/Angus sits in the south is if the Lowland League is split into an east/west feeder. It is patently unreasonable to further increase the number of clubs in the south and pretend that the 2 areas carry equal weighting. 

It doesn't look likely that the SFA or SPFL will agree to such a split. If that's how it stays then the boundary shouldn't move - simple as that.  

It is very obvious of course that there should be LL East and LL West.  It suits the shape of Scotland. There are enough licenced clubs already in situ to make that shift and if necessary, there could be scope left in the west to embrace the highest finishing west junior teams who get their licence sorted. 

[parsforlife]

POSSIBLE ROADMAP:
Season 2020/21 - Aberdeen & Dundee Juniors to form a 'Superleague', feeding into the HFL; West Juniors join the pyramid exactly as they are, feeding into the LL.  East Juniors (West Lothian and Fife join EoS league)
Season 2021/22 - Continue with the league structure, clubs progress towards SFA Licence
Season 2022/23 - Dissolve L2 and promote the LL and HL to tier 4 to look something like this (based on current standings):

Your flogging a dead horse trying to get clubs to give up national status.

And a 12 team league with 4 feeders is madness.

[AlanCamelonfan]

20 minutes ago, Che Dail said:

POSSIBLE ROADMAP:

Season 2020/21 - Aberdeen & Dundee Juniors to form a 'Superleague', feeding into the HFL; West Juniors join the pyramid exactly as they are, feeding into the LL.  East Juniors (West Lothian and Fife join EoS league)

Season 2021/22 - Continue with the league structure, clubs progress towards SFA Licence

Season 2022/23 - Dissolve L2 and promote the LL and HL to tier 4 to look something like this (based on current standings):

Camelon are above Jeanfield and would surely be in their above Jeanfield. As I expect us to be stronger next season than this season

[AlanCamelonfan]

11 minutes ago, HTG said:

The only reasonable way that the HL/LL boundary can be moved further north so that Tayside/Angus sits in the south is if the Lowland League is split into an east/west feeder. It is patently unreasonable to further increase the number of clubs in the south and pretend that the 2 areas carry equal weighting. 

It doesn't look likely that the SFA or SPFL will agree to such a split. If that's how it stays then the boundary shouldn't move - simple as that.  

It is very obvious of course that there should be LL East and LL West.  It suits the shape of Scotland. There are enough licenced clubs already in situ to make that shift and if necessary, there could be scope left in the west to embrace the highest finishing west junior teams who get their licence sorted. 

No their isn't and is why they think 10 West Juniors would come in. Lowland League West and East should come in the future. But I don't see how if they did that would mean that the line is moved unless you moved Dunipace, Camelon and Potentially Bo'ness, stirling uni to the west and thats not acceptable

[Che Dail]

14 minutes ago, parsforlife said:

 

Your flogging a dead horse trying to get clubs to give up national status.

And a 12 team league with 4 feeders is madness.

 

Some might say Scottish Football is a dead horse - The national team still can't qualify for football tournaments.

What is so appealing for the likes of Cowdenbeath and Albion Rovers to be in a national league?  What would they be giving up?  The standard between bottom half L2 and top LL is comparable - but they don't have to trail their players and officials all around the country for, mostly, pointless games of football.

And it is 2 feeders:  Highland League and Lowland League, exactly the same as it is now.

Edited January 20, 2020 by Che Dail

[Che Dail]

5 minutes ago, AlanCamelonfan said:

Camelon are above Jeanfield and would surely be in their above Jeanfield. As I expect us to be stronger next season than this season

But Camelon don't have a licence(?)   The thing is just to illustrate a point for now.

Edited January 20, 2020 by Che Dail

[AlanCamelonfan]

Just now, Che Dail said:

But Camelon don't have a licence(?) 

Neither do Bo'ness or Tranent. WE only needed lights and the last of them are going up

[Burnie_man]

1 minute ago, Che Dail said:

Some might say Scottish Football is a dead horse - The national team still can't qualify for football tournaments. What is so appealing for the likes of Cowdenbeath and Albion Rovers to be in a national league?  What would they be giving up?  The standard between bottom L2 and top LL is comparable - but they don't have to trail take their players and officials all around the country for, mostly, pointless games of football.

And it is 2 feeders:  Highland League and Lowland League, exactly the same as it is now.

League status is all they have.    Give that up and they are just another small club, as ES and Berwick have shown.

They won't give that up voluntarily.

[AlanCamelonfan]

2 minutes ago, Che Dail said:

But Camelon don't have a licence(?) 

Also why move Stirling UNi west? They are members of EOSFA as are Camelon and Dunipace now.

[GNU_Linux]

Any ideas about the SPFL going regional at it's lower tiers is pipe dream fantasy. Playing at national level has a certain prestige & clubs clearly can survive playing at a national level given the lengthy memberships of the SFL/SPFL these clubs have had. The only structural reform to the SPFL anytime soon would be auto relegation from SPFL2 (eventually).

[Che Dail]

5 minutes ago, AlanCamelonfan said:

Also why move Stirling UNi west? They are members of EOSFA as are Camelon and Dunipace now.

The leagues are loosely focussed around the major cities: Inverness, Aberdeen & Dundee; Edinburgh & Perth; Glasgow & Stirling;

It's a high-level approach to the problem, no point worrying about 'detail' just now.  But it shows how the Tayside Juniors could reasonably fit in to the pyramid, and a pretty decent West League for the strong Junior clubs to aspire to.  And also, strong leagues for clubs in the professional structure to 'drop' into, even though they'd most likely be BETTER OFF.

Edited January 20, 2020 by Che Dail