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Junior football, what is the future?


Burnie_man

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3 minutes ago, Marshmallo said:

Talbot strike me as though they'll need to be dragged kicking and screaming into the evil pyramid with its 40 quid tickets at Elgin every second Tuesday night.

Cumnock/Clydebank/Kilwinning all seem like clubs who might be best placed to take the lead on a move. 

You maybe right re Elgin, im not sure that the SOS league would interest the likes of Clydebank or Kilwinning as their travel costs may be too excessive.

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At the meeting on Thursday there was a heavy leaning on the West to support the East juniors, this all seemed a fair way to look at things till you remember that the best the East had legged it to the EOS without a consideration for the West, ruining the Scottish Cup and devaluing and possibly starting the end of the grade.

On all the options the West fits perfectly Into the structure and the issues sit with the inclusion of the East.

Should the west be looking out for themselves? 
 

 

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1 minute ago, parkcircus said:

At the meeting on Thursday there was a heavy leaning on the West to support the East juniors, this all seemed a fair way to look at things till you remember that the best the East had legged it to the EOS without a consideration for the West, ruining the Scottish Cup and devaluing and possibly starting the end of the grade.

On all the options the West fits perfectly Into the structure and the issues sit with the inclusion of the East.

Should the west be looking out for themselves? 
 

 

I think they should and move to set up an West version of the EOS League at tier 6.

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2 minutes ago, Marshmallo said:

Talbot strike me as though they'll need to be dragged kicking and screaming into the evil pyramid with its 40 quid tickets at Elgin every second Tuesday night.

Cumnock/Clydebank/Kilwinning all seem like clubs who might be best placed to take the lead on a move. 

Clydebank hopefully. They'll have had their meeting by now as it was at 15.00. So who knows what they do.

Last time Clydebank voted to go senior, Kilwinning were one of those clubs that regularly chosen by the media for positive quotes around joining the pyramid. They've since moved to KSC as well. They've got to be getting that up to licencing standards, so might as well see the benefit of that by actually getting licenced. Not sure they would say anything to distract going for the title right now though.

Cumnock and Petershill applied for licencing last year. Doesn't look there has been any movement on that for them. So why not.

Girvan existing SFA members, previous SoS members. Maybe they would sign up for the SoS again if there were more West of Scotland clubs in it.

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Buffs license time line will be about 2/3 years? We already ruled out a move to the SOS 3 years back and don’t think it’s for us, we have considered it for our U21s  instead of them going amateur.

The other option, offered a while back, was for the EOS to setup a West league and West juniors joining that, at the time there wasn’t enough interest for clubs but that might have changed now.

The 2 year pyramid setup actually suits us at the moment, not sure if it suits Petershill and Cumnock 

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7 minutes ago, parkcircus said:

At the meeting on Thursday there was a heavy leaning on the West to support the East juniors, this all seemed a fair way to look at things till you remember that the best the East had legged it to the EOS without a consideration for the West, ruining the Scottish Cup and devaluing and possibly starting the end of the grade.

On all the options the West fits perfectly Into the structure and the issues sit with the inclusion of the East.

Should the west be looking out for themselves?

The West moved away from District leagues and the Central / Ayrshire Cups because at the time the 16-16-16-16 league model was seen as the best for the Region. That's a lot of Junior / Grade tradition put to pasture. You have to look at entering the pyramid in the same way.

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At the meeting on Thursday there was a heavy leaning on the West to support the East juniors, this all seemed a fair way to look at things till you remember that the best the East had legged it to the EOS without a consideration for the West, ruining the Scottish Cup and devaluing and possibly starting the end of the grade.
On all the options the West fits perfectly Into the structure and the issues sit with the inclusion of the East.
Should the west be looking out for themselves? 
 
 
I'd rather the west fights it's own corner instead of grade solidarity with the east for no logical reason as at end of the day upon entering the pyramid clubs would be senior anyway. That & I have zero desire to screw over the EOS who are rightfully the senior league in that part of world & have been a class act throughout the pyramid process despite some in junior circles potraying them as the bad guys in all this. The EOS & by proxy the LL reasoning for rejecting the the ERJFA entering wholesale into the pyramid is valid & built on reason plus logic. To keep up the 'solidarity with our fellow juniors' approach delays west entry pure & simple.
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I'd agree 100%. The solidarity thing is mind boggling.

The west is a penalty kick without a goalkeeper in goals. Always has been, always will be. To delay further is lunacy and might end up in a delayed entry for quite possibly another 3 seasons. By which time clubs have to factor in players looking to play pyramid football over playing junior, which is probably a situation turned on its head from say 5 or 6 years ago.

I hope, and hope some more, that west clubs take their future in their own hands and form a breakaway league. That isn't just the clubs from the top league but any club in the West who wants to join the pyramid.

My club did, from the bottom of the bottom division in the wrsjfa and we haven't looked back since. It's been great.

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2 minutes ago, parkcircus said:

At the meeting on Thursday there was a heavy leaning on the West to support the East juniors, this all seemed a fair way to look at things till you remember that the best the East had legged it to the EOS without a consideration for the West, ruining the Scottish Cup and devaluing and possibly starting the end of the grade.

On all the options the West fits perfectly Into the structure and the issues sit with the inclusion of the East.

Should the west be looking out for themselves? 
 

 

100% YES! Do what's best for your club, and ultimately it will be best for everyone. 

Why should Pollok / Clydebank / Auchinleck be held back out of some misplaced nostalgic loyalty to the likes of Harthill / Lochore / Glentanar?  Because you are all inadvertently holding them back as well -  That's what's happening.  NOTHING would change for the vast majority of West Region clubs, other than having the opportunity to get a club licence, play in the Scottish cup every year and potentially earn promotion to the Lowland League. 

In time, I do think there should be a LL West, and LL East - but for this to happen there MUST be a commitment made by clubs first. 

In response to the North and Tayside conundrum, I think there should be a HL North and HL Central.   For this to develop, the North Juniors and East (Tayside) Juniors should get together to form what is effectively a new 'Superleague' of clubs from Aberdeen and Dundee.  Then we have a clear structure around our major cities:

Highland League North: Inverness

Highland League Central: Aberdeen & Dundee  (and if Tayport / St Andrews / Luncarty prefer this route, allow some geographical leeway)

Lowland League West: Glasgow & Stirling

Lowland League East: Edinburgh & Perth

This is not rocket science, and as far as I can see EVERYBODY would be better off.  But it needs a start.  Please...

 

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1 hour ago, Che Dail said:

100% YES! Do what's best for your club, and ultimately it will be best for everyone. 

Why should Pollok / Clydebank / Auchinleck be held back out of some misplaced nostalgic loyalty to the likes of Harthill / Lochore / Glentanar?  Because you are all inadvertently holding them back as well -  That's what's happening.  NOTHING would change for the vast majority of West Region clubs, other than having the opportunity to get a club licence, play in the Scottish cup every year and potentially earn promotion to the Lowland League. 

In time, I do think there should be a LL West, and LL East - but for this to happen there MUST be a commitment made by clubs first. 

In response to the North and Tayside conundrum, I think there should be a HL North and HL Central.   For this to develop, the North Juniors and East (Tayside) Juniors should get together to form what is effectively a new 'Superleague' of clubs from Aberdeen and Dundee.  Then we have a clear structure around our major cities:

Highland League North: Inverness

Highland League Central: Aberdeen & Dundee  (and if Tayport / St Andrews / Luncarty prefer this route, allow some geographical leeway)

Lowland League West: Glasgow & Stirling

Lowland League East: Edinburgh & Perth

This is not rocket science, and as far as I can see EVERYBODY would be better off.  But it needs a start.  Please...

 

Stirling part of ll west but camelon and dunipace would be east

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1 hour ago, Che Dail said:

100% YES! Do what's best for your club, and ultimately it will be best for everyone. 

Why should Pollok / Clydebank / Auchinleck be held back out of some misplaced nostalgic loyalty to the likes of Harthill / Lochore / Glentanar?  Because you are all inadvertently holding them back as well -  That's what's happening.  NOTHING would change for the vast majority of West Region clubs, other than having the opportunity to get a club licence, play in the Scottish cup every year and potentially earn promotion to the Lowland League. 

In time, I do think there should be a LL West, and LL East - but for this to happen there MUST be a commitment made by clubs first. 

In response to the North and Tayside conundrum, I think there should be a HL North and HL Central.   For this to develop, the North Juniors and East (Tayside) Juniors should get together to form what is effectively a new 'Superleague' of clubs from Aberdeen and Dundee.  Then we have a clear structure around our major cities:

Highland League North: Inverness

Highland League Central: Aberdeen & Dundee  (and if Tayport / St Andrews / Luncarty prefer this route, allow some geographical leeway)

Lowland League West: Glasgow & Stirling

Lowland League East: Edinburgh & Perth

This is not rocket science, and as far as I can see EVERYBODY would be better off.  But it needs a start.  Please...

 

Uhh if you were starting from scratch maybe.

But realistically, the HL - LL and each with three feeders (whether the one in the West is a WOS League or WRSJFA is another matter) as I (and others) have said on other posts is probably the most sensible and pragmatic route right now.

It's the compromise that not everyone will be happy with, but most will be content with.
 

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20 minutes ago, ArabAuslander said:

Uhh if you were starting from scratch maybe.

But realistically, the HL - LL and each with three feeders (whether the one in the West is a WOS League or WRSJFA is another matter) as I (and others) have said on other posts is probably the most sensible and pragmatic route right now.

It's the compromise that not everyone will be happy with, but most will be content with.
 

Correct 👍

Three things can happen in time for next season:

1. West Region Juniors join the pyramid feeding in below the LL.

2. East Region Juniors join the EoS

3. Tayside Juniors and North Juniors form a "Dundee / Aberdeen" Superleague

Edited by Che Dail
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You'd think by now a few of the bigger West sides would see the light and realise the potential they have. The biggest of them could easily be challenging to get into the SPFL. Whether or not junior fans would want that, the old-fashioned SJFA clearly isn't long for this world. I personally wish the junior teams I care about had moved before now, but the whole boundary issue has messed that right up. The longer this wheelspin continues, the more contempt I feel towards the SJFA. The whole attitude is archaic and frustrating.

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2 hours ago, parkcircus said:

At the meeting on Thursday there was a heavy leaning on the West to support the East juniors, this all seemed a fair way to look at things till you remember that the best the East had legged it to the EOS without a consideration for the West, ruining the Scottish Cup and devaluing and possibly starting the end of the grade.

On all the options the West fits perfectly Into the structure and the issues sit with the inclusion of the East.

Should the west be looking out for themselves? 

I absolutely want a solution for ourselves, as somebody who is pro-pyramid and following a Tayside junior team I'm not happy with the current situation around here. But the west have nothing to do with it. You'll have to do what's best for yourselves. Solidarity sounds nice, but neither Tayside, nor West clubs are getting any further with that. If anything, if the west get in, it might finally spur on a solution for Tayside in the near future.

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5 hours ago, LongTimeLurker said:

You did not understand my reply and my understanding is that you are wrong about previously licensed clubs losing their voting rights. The new class of associate membership only applies to clubs that get licensed from the end of this season onwards. Everybody else is grandfathered in. The SPFL are already outnumbered in other words and the sky hasn't caved in for them because of it.

What the SPFL clubs feared was a vast influx of many new members at tiers 6 and 7 given 130 junior clubs with enclosed grounds were suddenly on the verge of pyramid entry after the SJFA decided they wanted to join. Adding the foodlights requirement at very short notice was also part of heading off a sudden massive influx into full membership at the pass. In comparison to that, an extra tier 5 league may be viewed as manageable.

For example, it could be viewed as part of providing a better crash landing zone for existing members from a League One and Two sort of perspective (Queen's Park vs Pollok is a probably a more appetising prospect than Queen's Park vs Vale of Leithen, for example), and as a recruiting ground for clubs that might help strengthen the quality in depth of the SPFL over the longer term when viewed from a Championship and Premiership sort of vantage point.

The club that was on the verge of doing a "Kelty" two seasons ago was Clydebank. The vice-president of the SJFA is from that club so they will be very much in the loop on what is happening as will some of the other clubs that are most likely to want to jump to the pyramid pronto. As things stand the SJFA are still trying to get all three regions in and Option Z is being viewed as a viable vehicle for achieving that outcome. I doubt you'll see anyone doing a "Kelty" unless or until (we don't have long to find out which) there are crystal clear reasons to believe it isn't.

To LongTimeLurker

If you are going to publish a quote from one of my posts, please do so accurately. Should you do decide to re-read it, you will see that I clearly asked if my "assumption" was correct.  You really must try to keep  your replies factually correct, rather than misrepresent them as being "misunderstood" etc.

And for the record, I am very pleased that your "understanding" is that the 4 clubs I referred to have not automatically lost their SFA voting rights, on the basis that they are not currently playing in a pyramid feeder league. Therefore, I sincerely hope that your "understanding" is correct on this matter.  

Regarding the rest of your post, most participants on this Forum, know that Clydebank submitted an application to join the seniors, and why the club subsequently deferred it. (I was in direct contact with the Bankies at that time).  And of course you choose to state the obvious, that Clydebank office bearers are "very much in the loop" at the present time. Yes we know.

However, as highlighted by a number of posts from other writers (above), you appear to be a lone voice determined to  contradict the views of others , some of whom (I consider) have a better track record in correctly forecasting pyramid outcomes (during the last three years or so), than you do.   Is this helping, I ask ?

 

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3 hours ago, Marten said:

I absolutely want a solution for ourselves, as somebody who is pro-pyramid and following a Tayside junior team I'm not happy with the current situation around here. But the west have nothing to do with it. You'll have to do what's best for yourselves. Solidarity sounds nice, but neither Tayside, nor West clubs are getting any further with that. If anything, if the west get in, it might finally spur on a solution for Tayside in the near future.

It's clearly not solidarity as they're just dragging their heels.

Tayside solution Tier 6 feeder to HL, alongside North Super and North Caley. Allows an ambitious club like Broughty the chance to play in the HL and go and try their luck if they want whilst also leaving the vast maj of Tayside clubs playing in the pyramid formally but playing the same sides they were last season (might also convince Montrose Roselea to transfer back into a Tayside tier 6 league)

EDIT: How do I put LTL on ignore/mute it's honestly getting embarrassing at this point.

Edited by ArabAuslander
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8 hours ago, parkcircus said:

At the meeting on Thursday there was a heavy leaning on the West to support the East juniors, this all seemed a fair way to look at things till you remember that the best the East had legged it to the EOS without a consideration for the West, ruining the Scottish Cup and devaluing and possibly starting the end of the grade.

On all the options the West fits perfectly Into the structure and the issues sit with the inclusion of the East.

Should the west be looking out for themselves? 

--------------------------------------------------------

 

And therein lies the problem, it is not the "veto" of the EoS or the LL, but the intransigence, and the sheer stupidity, of the west juniors and the dinosaurs in blazers controlling the moribund SJFA.. They haven't learned a thing since the inception of the LL... and, more importantly, they don't want to learn. The SJFA haven't delivered one single ambitious club into the pyramid since it started.

In fact, they have done the opposite, deliberately frustrating and obfuscating in bad faith year after year. It is time for the door to be firmly closed on the SJFA, and its West and East Regions. They have no interest whatsoever in entering the pyramid except on their own terms, and as such their  regional champions should lose their place in the Scottish Cup

The door should be open only to those individual junior clubs (and amatuer clubs) with the ambition and the balls to knock on that door in order to seek assistance in setting up a western division, possibly with the help of the LL and/or the EoS for a temporary period of maybe one or two years, which, hopefully, would eventually evolve into a genuine independent West of Scotland League beneath the LL alongside the EoS Premier League.

The juniors, especially the west juniors, have had their chance, and they have blown it due to their sheer arrogance and self-entitlement.

It is time to move on... with or without them.


 

 

Quote

 

 

Edited by The Speaking Pariah
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Last follow up for a while. As explained multiple times already I am not expressing support for Option Z, because beyond anything else what some random P&B poster thinks means diddlysquat in the big scheme of things. What's interesting in my opinion is why the people that actually matter would think it's a viable option worth pursuing despite the many issues you list and why the WRSJFA blazers would be steering their clubs in this direction in preference to the west juniors in first option that we were recently being told by posters on here with west region connections was what was going to happen.
It's usually better not to ascribe motives, but a pet theory would be that if you are Rod Petrie and you have finally clambered your way up the greasy pole to be Big Brother Almighty of Scottish fitba so you can look foward to mingling with the likes of Pele and Michel Platini at FIFA and UEFA events in Geneva, it probably doesn't sit well having Gaz fae Denny from some tier 6 diddy league that you were barely even aware existed telling you what you can and can't do on junior entry to the pyramid and where league boundaries are...
Just read this must have missed it yesterday. My, my lurker. The mask finally slips.

The wording of your post (venom scatter gun fully loaded and firing) tells us all where your interests in all this lie. Impartial..... I think not.

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