Junior football, what is the future?

[AlanCamelonfan]

2 minutes ago, LongTimeLurker said:

Last follow up for a few hours. The SFA could have said the following to the SJFA. Your north region told us last season they don't want in, your east region can't even sustain a single 16 team superleague and a fair-sized chunk of it is in the HL catchment anyway and we are not shifting that boundary for you, so there is no way you can enter as an intact association. That mean this has to be done region by region so from now on we have to deal with all three regions individually and sort out a solution for each one at a time. What's actually happening doesn't fit that.

The sfa wouldnt gave said anything of the sort. Its sjfa who have obviously said only way we will get this in. Is if you go into pyramid aswell. The funny thing about this was the north was conveniently forgotten about until people on here started saying the north are getting forgotten about in the mandate. Now all of a sudden they are reappearing 

[FairWeatherFan]

5 minutes ago, LongTimeLurker said:

Last follow up for a few hours. The SFA could have said the following to the SJFA. Your north region told us last season they don't want in, your east region can't even sustain a single 16 team superleague and a fair-sized chunk of it is in the HL catachment anyway and we are not shifting that boundary for you, so there is no way you can enter as an intact association. That mean this has to be done region by region so from now on we have to deal with all three regions individually and sort out a solution for each one at a time. What's actually happening doesn't fit that.

The SFA don't run the leagues. They aren't going to tell them how to run themselves.

The only reason they were able to get the pyramid in place was because it was tied up in the package around the SPL/SFL merger and there wasn't enough time to nitpick. Not because they forced anything into existence.

From then Montrose Chairman Derek Sim in 2015.

Edited January 19, 2020 by FairWeatherFan

[stanley]

Try putting one or two users on ignore.  Helps a lot not seeing the exact same post over and over again.

[Guest]

So now because the sfa haven't said something option z is a viable option. Ahh I see your logic. You are 100% right, option z is happening.

Everyone, option z is happening.

Last follow up for a few hours. The SFA could have said the following to the SJFA. Your north region told us last season they don't want in, your east region can't even sustain a single 16 team superleague and a fair-sized chunk of it is in the HL catchment anyway and we are not shifting that boundary for you, so there is no way you can enter as an intact association. That means this has to be done region by region so from now on we have to deal with all three regions individually and sort out a solution for each one at a time. What's actually happening doesn't fit that.

[Che Dail]

35 minutes ago, BTID said:

can anyone explain why the eos wouldn’t back a LL east/west (if it happened) given that they would probably get more clubs moved up quicker?

Because there are currently not enough Licensed clubs.   How many top West clubs are still without floodlights in place?

Affiliate the West Region League to the pyramid now and after a year or two , once clubs have had a chance to get properly organised (as the former East Juniors have already done) then the LL can look to split it East / West.

All that is needed for next season is a commitment by the clubs to join the pyramid, feeding in to the Lowland League that is in place and thriving now.  This is simply following the example set by the likes of Kelty, Bonnyrigg, Bo'ness and Linlthgow  who all trusted the system and process in place, and were humble enough to follow it through at the appropriate level.

[BTID]

Yes, although easier for those teams to jump ship because they had an already made league setup for them in their area. We don’t have that in the west. 

[gaz5]

Yes, although easier for those teams to jump ship because they had an already made league setup for them in their area. We don’t have that in the west. 

 

You don't need one, just bring the whole West Region as it is into Tier 6 like everyone has already agreed to other than the SJFA. 

 

I think the reference to the appropriate level was in the SJFA proposing and backing Tier 5, a level above where it should be done and where the teams in the East moved to.

 

As an aside: The reason the EoS (and I expect LL) won't back the LL split in your previous question is that the plan to do that contains ERSJFA at Tier 6 as a parallel feeder, which has already been rejected unanimously. That's been sneaked back into plan Z.

 

 

[BTID]

Thanks.

and yes I appreciate that’s the obvious thing to do. But think we all know the west is not going to leave en masse so it will be down to clubs to breakaway now. 

[Jack Burton]

Last follow up for a few hours. The SFA could have said the following to the SJFA. Your north region told us last season they don't want in, your east region can't even sustain a single 16 team superleague and a fair-sized chunk of it is in the HL catchment anyway and we are not shifting that boundary for you, so there is no way you can enter as an intact association. That means this has to be done region by region so from now on we have to deal with all three regions individually and sort out a solution for each one at a time. What's actually happening doesn't fit that.

The SFA aren't backing the other 3 options then? The ones which don't see all junior regions in at the same time?

[Guest]

Because there are currently not enough Licensed clubs.   How many top West clubs are still without floodlights in place?
Affiliate the West Region League to the pyramid now and after a year or two , once clubs have had a chance to get properly organised (as the former East Juniors have already done) then the LL can look to split it East / West.
All that is needed for next season is a commitment by the clubs to join the pyramid, feeding in to the Lowland League that is in place and thriving now.  This is simply following the example set by the likes of Kelty, Bonnyrigg, Bo'ness and Linlthgow  who all trusted the system and process in place, and were humble enough to follow it through at the appropriate level.

And the LL would then go from a 1 on 2 chance at promotion to 1 in 3. The spfl are unlikely to sanction extra/automatic promotion/relegation at this stage.

[FairWeatherFan]

1 hour ago, BTID said:

can anyone explain why the eos wouldn’t back a LL east/west (if it happened) given that they would probably get more clubs moved up quicker?

Another season of disruption. While the bulk of the EoS Premier Division would be licenced, so you could go 1-6 and have clubs moved up to Tier 5 on merit. You're not going to know how many clubs would be required until the SPFL playoff is completed. That means another scramble for league structure for everyone in 2021-22. That's a negative impact on the majority and not the minority that would make LL East.

There's no idea what the LL West and East boundary would be, or if there even would be one. Clubs could be flitted between the two based on need to balance the numbers. So a Dunipace or Camelon could be moved West in a given season.

Promotion & Relegation from with the LL East, how would that work with two feeders? Two LL East teams get relegated both are historical EoS sides so presumbably go to the EoS. Yet the EoS Champion and East Region Champion are the ones that get promoted. Oh, and Stenhousemuir have been relegated from the SPFL so there's a 3rd LL East team to be relegated and they go?

Right now the EoS is in the pyramid. They can get extra promotion opportunities to the Lowland League once things settle. They can also work towards a 3 league Tier 5 set up in a more orderly fashion as well. Why do they need the extra mess?

 

[Ped]

Aren't we forgetting if the lowland league split they would still be running both leagues and there west members get put in that league before the juniors so the sjfa would still have no say in the running of the lowland west 

[Che Dail]

1 hour ago, BTID said:

Yes, although easier for those teams to jump ship because they had an already made league setup for them in their area. We don’t have that in the west. 

Yes you do, it is ready made:  The West Region Junior Football Association. That's it, done.

[BTID]

1 minute ago, Che Dail said:

Yes you do, it is ready made:  The West Region Junior Football Association. That's it, done.

Presuming all the west clubs agree to move across together?

[Che Dail]

1 hour ago, gaz5 said:

The reason the EoS (and I expect LL) won't back the LL split in your previous question is that the plan to do that contains ERSJFA at Tier 6 as a parallel feeder, which has already been rejected unanimously. That's been sneaked back into plan Z.

 

 

EXACTLY.  Most people can see that this is ridiculous.

[Che Dail]

Just now, BTID said:

Presuming all the west clubs agree to move across together?

Do you need them ALL to agree, or simply go with a majority?

They already voted in favour of joining the pyramid - So if some rebel clubs STILL can't see the benefits just give them a simple choice: Take it or leave it.

Why on earth any club wouldn't want to go with this is beyond me. Unfathomable.

[Dev]

Look folks, what we have here is some-one - LongTimeLurker - putting forward a stir-up of theories which create debate at a time when the SJFA and the East region Juniors are in difficulty with the potential for a significant exodus of clubs from the East Juniors to the EoS. This is seen as an existential threat to the SJFA as if the east goes then the West will tumble soon enough and that will be the end for a meaningful SJFA.

Someone has to fight their corner on P&B so that's about it really. Look back at the build up to the last exodus of East Juniors to the seniors and you will see why the SJFA is in such a panic when this time of the season arrives. They're a pack of cards waiting to be blown over by those who are competent at running leagues. There's an alternative for current Juniors in the East. That's why the SJFA are desparate to avoid an alternative for clubs in the West (not South).

I feel sorry for LongTimeLurker. Although I can't see much point in entertaining him/her by being drawn into responding to his "provocation".

[leomessi1984]

Just a thought, and I get that the LL does not represent this fully atm,  but should it not be a testing ground league to an extent where clubs have to put in travel time?

The distances obviously prove a challenge but having a LL west/east would just dilute the quality for me.  You want the best of both battling to get up to the next step in the pyramid.  Feeders underneath for east and west imo are fine, above that no.

[BTID]

2 minutes ago, Che Dail said:

Do you need them ALL to agree, or simply go with a majority?

They already voted in favour of joining the pyramid - So if some rebel clubs STILL can't see the benefits just give them a simple choice: Take it or leave it.

Why on earth any club wouldn't want to go with this is beyond me. Unfathomable.

I totally agree mate. I just don’t see clubs standing up and doing it unfortunately. 

[Che Dail]

1 minute ago, Dev said:

Look folks, what we have here is some-one - LongTimeLurker - putting forward a stir-up of theories which create debate at a time when the SJFA and the East region Juniors are in difficulty with the potential for a significant exodus of clubs from the East Juniors to the EoS. This is seen as an existential threat to the SJFA as if the east goes then the West will tumble soon enough and that will be the end for a meaningful SJFA.

Someone has to fight their corner on P&B so that's about it really. Look back at the build up to the last exodus of East Juniors to the seniors and you will see why the SJFA is in such a panic when this time of the season arrives. They're a pack of cards waiting to be blown over by those who are competent at running leagues. There's an alternative for current Juniors in the East. That's why the SJFA are desparate to avoid an alternative for clubs in the West (not South).

I feel sorry for LongTimeLurker. Although I can't see much point in entertaining him/her by being drawn into responding to his "provocation".

There is no meaningful SJFA as a national association - it serves no purpose.  We have one national association for football, that's enough for a small country.