Junior football, what is the future?

[LongTimeLurker]

Just now, Burnie_man said:

I wouldn't get to excited.  These are the same people who claimed "done deal" last year.

There's a reason why I wrote could rather than will. Something you need to bear in mind is that the SFA board and SJFA have had a year to strategise on this and are clearly not using the approach that failed last time around.

[Burnie_man]

2 minutes ago, LongTimeLurker said:

There's a reason why I wrote could rather than will. Something you need to bear in mind is that the SFA board and SJFA have had a year to strategise on this and are clearly not using the approach that failed last time around.

Have they? in reality, it's a suggestion made around the table of the last PWG meeting, allegedly by Petrie, the same Petrie who has stressed that none of these suggestions are official SFA policy.

[Dunderheid]

Surely it's a matter of time before the pyramid runs right though scottish football... would that not benefit everyone?

[glensmad]

3 minutes ago, Dunderheid said:

Surely it's a matter of time before the pyramid runs right though scottish football... would that not benefit everyone?

[Ray Patterson]

16 hours ago, Che Dail said:

Sturgeon must condemn

FTFY

3 hours ago, sweep said:

You obviously have never been involved with a smaller junior club..

In my opinion The Pyramid would have financial implications for most teams . Like the hire of team buses to Gretna and Dalbeatie . Look at the Cumnock situation if Talbot get in and Cumnock do not.There are loads of examples where teams would be worse off. As I said in my original post we have no objections to teams trying to better themselves but would they be bettering themselves?

I understand this, however I do also have a rebuttal. If Lugar were to receive a License themselves then they would be recieving a SFA dividend every season of around £10k and Scottish Cup entry with minimum prize money of £3,600 and the chance of a big payday. Plus you'll still have a West of Scot Cup.

[Jacksgranda]

4 more pages since I last checked in. 

[Che Dail]

1 hour ago, parsforlife said:

Bye Scott.
 

"It's a phrase I've used since I was a kid and there was absolutely no racial intent behind it.  I fully regret saying it"

Presumably all the times that he's used this phrase throughout his life, nobody close to him or in his company has ever thought to point out that his casual racism is offensive and totally unacceptable.   It only comes to light when he's in a room full of adults, talking out loud.  The mind boggles.  

[AlanCamelonfan]

8 hours ago, sweep said:

My club Lugar have always been against a Pyramid systen for the juniors . We are not against any team wanting to progress and to get a licence and go into the Lowland league and perhaps better themselves. In reality how many teams from the west have made application for a licence?. Junior football in my opinion is about village against village  or town against town and the beauty of the Scottish cup draw not travelling 100 miles every second week to play a game of football . This will ultimately lead to the demise of clubs as neighbouring clubs go their own ways. Gates will get worse and the interest will wane more. Mibbae we are about to see noTalbot against Cumnock or no Pollock Arthurlie  unthinkable the consequences and last nights meeting told the clubs nothing about the format of the new set up. The clubs voted blind last night .We do not even know if it will be four six or eight clubs that will leave their respective leagues. I said last year at a meeting that the east would oppose  and the east have opposed. This will take years to come to fruition

Funny that since our travel reduced an average 14 miles per game joining the pyramid funny that

[FairWeatherFan]

58 minutes ago, LongTimeLurker said:

There's a reason why I wrote could rather than will. Something you need to bear in mind is that the SFA board and SJFA have had a year to strategise on this and are clearly not using the approach that failed last time around.

Nice to see someone else that believes that the sfa & sjfa are in cahoots.

Edited January 17, 2020 by FairWeatherFan

[TFW]

To me, this whole thing just gets weirder and weirder.

I think change is inevitable, and that there will be a move to the Pyramid structure at some time by clubs in the West. As an initial "no thank you" type fan to the Pyramid set up I think it's now important to be part of the vanguard for change when it comes. Somebody made the salient point about who will be chosen to make the move, and it could be the likes of anyone with a plastic pitch and lights because they'll meet the minimum licensing criteria. My club, Talbot, will hopefully have our floodlights up for next season, but it hasn't been easy raising the finance and getting the work done to date. I think it could be much harder for certain clubs like Glenafton and Pollok if they have designs of making the move as well.

I would hate to lose clubs that we have played since nineteen o dot, and have to play some of the teams being touted as possibly joining a LL West set up instead. Crowds would inevitably drop at Beehwood, whilst the likes of the Braves, Threave, etc would see significant increases in their gate income. Whatever does happen, I certainly hope it happens sooner rather than later, and is done so on the basis of a well informed decision making process.

[ian44wood]

you could have all (west juniors premiership) been in at teir 6 for next season

Edited January 17, 2020 by ian44wood

[AlanCamelonfan]

12 minutes ago, TFW said:

To me, this whole thing just gets weirder and weirder.

I think change is inevitable, and that there will be a move to the Pyramid structure at some time by clubs in the West. As an initial "no thank you" type fan to the Pyramid set up I think it's now important to be part of the vanguard for change when it comes. Somebody made the salient point about who will be chosen to make the move, and it could be the likes of anyone with a plastic pitch and lights because they'll meet the minimum licensing criteria. My club, Talbot, will hopefully have our floodlights up for next season, but it hasn't been easy raising the finance and getting the work done to date. I think it could be much harder for certain clubs like Glenafton and Pollok if they have designs of making the move as well.

I would hate to lose clubs that we have played since nineteen o dot, and have to play some of the teams being touted as possibly joining a LL West set up instead. Crowds would inevitably drop at Beehwood, whilst the likes of the Braves, Threave, etc would see significant increases in their gate income. Whatever does happen, I certainly hope it happens sooner rather than later, and is done so on the basis of a well informed decision making process.

Our crowds went up with move to pyramid mostly playing the same team out average went from 100 to 175. A lot of interest from youth teams are coming to senior games now

[FairWeatherFan]

1 minute ago, TFW said:

To me, this whole thing just gets weirder and weirder.

I think change is inevitable, and that there will be a move to the Pyramid structure at some time by clubs in the West. As an initial "no thank you" type fan to the Pyramid set up I think it's now important to be part of the vanguard for change when it comes. Somebody made the salient point about who will be chosen to make the move, and it could be the likes of anyone with a plastic pitch and lights because they'll meet the minimum licensing criteria. My club, Talbot, will hopefully have our floodlights up for next season, but it hasn't been easy raising the finance and getting the work done to date. I think it could be much harder for certain clubs like Glenafton and Pollok if they have designs of making the move as well.

I would hate to lose clubs that we have played since nineteen o dot, and have to play some of the teams being touted as possibly joining a LL West set up instead. Crowds would inevitably drop at Beehwood, whilst the likes of the Braves, Threave, etc would see significant increases in their gate income. Whatever does happen, I certainly hope it happens sooner rather than later, and is done so on the basis of a well informed decision making process.

The Lowland was created with offers to all fully licensed members guaranteed spots. Four at the time and then those closest to being licensed.

There wouldn't be relegation from the Lowland next year and every member would be guaranteed a spot. So EK, Cumbernauld Colts, Braves, Dalbeattie, Gretna look good to be in it. BSC would ensure they had a ground in the West and you might still see a current SPFL club added or two added. Say Albion Rovers this year and potentially someone else next. So there's 6-8 clubs slotted in.

Then you've got your Threave, St Cuthbert, Newton Stewart, Wigtown & Bladnoch in the SoS. Glasgow Uni in the amateurs. Girvan already licensed just need floodlights to retain it. Then who's to say a newly licensed Dunipace get shifted west depending on applications.

All of those clubs could get in if they apply

[LongTimeLurker]

30 minutes ago, ian44wood said:

you could have all (west juniors premiership) been in at teir 6 for next season

Not clear how that could have unfolded when the SJFA is doing the negotiating for an entire national association.

[edinabear]

Everything about this meeting seems to be a absolute shambles. It must be so frustrating to try and deal with those incharge of Junior football. It's like they are deliberately trying to confuse and delay. LL East and LL west has no chance of passing at the stage. It may in a few years but I suspect the Junior heirarchy already know this.

[santheman]

1 hour ago, ArabAuslander said:

FTFY

I understand this, however I do also have a rebuttal. If Lugar were to receive a License themselves then they would be recieving a SFA dividend every season of around £10k and Scottish Cup entry with minimum prize money of £3,600 and the chance of a big payday. Plus you'll still have a West of Scot Cup.

There is absolutely no chance of teams in the lower leagues getting a licence unless a sugar daddy comes on board with the ones who own their own grounds(egDarvel) or the Local Authority help fund the improvements necessary for teams who play on Council owned pitches (eg Yoker) so the lure of SFA money is ,in their eyes, nothing but pie in the sky.

Most are running with ageing Committee members who have little energy or enthusiasm to do anything more than keep their club afloat and don't like change especially if their perception is that it will cost them financially and mean committing time and effort even more than they are.

That is why there is lukewarm enthusiasm for changing things amongst a lot of lower league clubs.

That wont change unless there are other financial benefits on offer and/or they can attract younger members with a bit of drive and bring a different perspective to things.

Edited January 17, 2020 by santheman

[Guest]

Not clear how that could have unfolded when the SJFA is doing the negotiating for an entire national association.

But they really aren't..... The North was dropped like a hot tattie without even a mention.... Funny how its an entire association when it suits the narrative.

[LongTimeLurker]

1 minute ago, G4Mac said:

16 minutes ago, LongTimeLurker said:

Not clear how that could have unfolded when the SJFA is doing the negotiating for an entire national association.

But they really aren't..... The North was dropped like a hot tattie without even a mention.... Funny how its an entire association when it suits the narrative.

Did you see the stuff from the Montrose Roselea guy today? The north are still part of what's going on. A meeting was held last week between the HL and NRSJFA.

[Robert James]

2 hours ago, Burnie_man said:

2 hours ago, theesel1994 said:

The way the Options were worded, the Management Committee's preferred Option Z was highlighted as having the approval of the East Region, SPFL and LL.
They do not say if Option W had the approval of SPFL or LL. Obviously the East Region are against it.
The East Region are not on the same level anymore as the West Region. They have already lost all their top clubs to Senior Football. The way the West Region is going, it will also lose its top clubs.

There is no approval or disapproval, that's what these meetings are supposed to be for, to provide feedback on all four proposals plus the boundary. That seem to have got lost along the way in the west.

Has the  WRJFA/SJFA invited the PWG and Lowland League representatives to attend a meeting with the West Region clubs ? Surely this is the only realistic way that all the questions, concerns and confusions about the pyramid, can be addressed, and presumably clarified ?  It would be a fact finding & information giving meeting, only.

I suspect that the answer is "no", which can only mean that there is absolute fear on the part of the Junior' hierarchy' that 'pyramid-itis'  will infect its clubs and be incurable.

I anticipate that some ambitious junior clubs will now be looking at a South of Scotland option, as a viable (and quicker ?)  route into the Lowland League (at tier 5), whilst other West clubs dither and/or wait for the arrival of the promised (football) land.  

 

[Burnie_man]

27 minutes ago, santheman said:

There is absolutely no chance of teams in the lower leagues getting a licence unless a sugar daddy comes on board with the ones who own their own grounds(egDarvel) or the Local Authority help fund the improvements necessary for teams who play on Council owned pitches (eg Yoker) so the lure of SFA money is ,in their eyes, nothing but pie in the sky.

Well these clubs are little different to clubs in the EoS who are currently putting up lights and going through the process (or already have a licence).

I wouldn't describe St.Andrews, Haddington, Coldstream, Burntisland Shipyard or the like giants of the game or backed by sugar daddies, but they have managed it.