Junior football, what is the future?

[glensmad]

7 minutes ago, Jack Burton said:

I'm really not surprised at the outcome of the meeting. We'll be discussing the same topic for years unless some of the West teams decide to break away like what happened in the east.

I understand Clydebank have some sort of club meeting on Sunday. Could be interesting.

[Arthurlie1981]

Any truth in the rumour that the WRJFA done a deal with the ERJFA to stick together in order to help get the ERJFA into the Pyramid?  Might explain why the ERJFA told their clubs before Xmas that there is a good chance they will be in at tier 6.  This also of course prolongs a certain persons position.
If the WRJFA stick to this at PWG and refuse all other options, then no West clubs in the Pyramid next season, and I'd be surprised if there were any the following.

I have no idea. Most of my knowledge is from previous meeting and how things have been done over the years (I am no longer involved at Arthurlie other than being a fan these days). It wouldn’t surprise me if your comment is correct.

I am a supporter of taking clubs forward and the misinformation being spouted by people who should be taking neutral positions is appalling but not surprising. Allowing the clubs to have all the information and making an informed decision (even if that is to stick with the status quo) should have been the way this was done but the perceived threat by paid individuals has blocked progression from happening.

[Eddie Hitler]

I have been watching this thread with great interest for more than a year, on and off (since around the time the East clubs broke away en masse and joined the EoS).

Entirely unbidden by anyone, of course, but here are some of my observations (on the latest developments plus some general ones).

1) It has been said before by many that it seems farcical that the SJFA think they can just turn up late to the party and demand access. I agree. It seems obvious that they should join in a manner that existing members decree. Therefore, the West should join as a bloc if they want to (while they still can!) and the existing East juniors should decide what they want to do, stay in juniors or join EoS. It's a bit much for west teams to be held back from joining in the name of some form of "solidarity". 

2) I confess that I am a fan of a senior club and so maybe I don't understand some of the issues. This said, it amazes me how often that fans of some of the junior clubs (who I accept will know their clubs and their desires better than me) seem not to know what joining the pyramid *necessarily* entails for them. An oft-cited wish is "we still want to play the local games". But it always seems to be ignored that most teams are going to be able to do just that because change (in the form of progressing to anything like a "national" league) is going to come slowly for most, if at all.

3) Again, without having ever been at one of the meetings or anything like that, it seems fair to say that some important figures in the junior game are very resistant and that this seems (based on what we are reading here about last night's meeting) to be swaying some West juniors away from joining the pyramid. In particular, it seems the carrot of tier 5 is being dangled by people who know it's unlikely to be achieved. Why would they dangle that when they know as much? One can only imagine that it's to delay change, so that nothing is settled.

4) Why would junior clubs listen to these people? Again, I accept I am on no committee but it strikes me as being one of two things. Either it is because they believe that the top west juniors deserve the status of a tier 5 club (there may well be a good argument for this, in all honesty, but they seem to have missed the boat). Alternatively, it comes down to a worry that the promised benefits (for the ambitious clubs, at least) will take a while to materialise because they will have to win an extra promotion so it might take an extra year to reach, say, the SPFL2. But the counter to that is that all these delays put in place arguing that you should be tier 5 or tier 6 seem just as likely to make progression take a long time,

5) Lastly, it would seem that (because of a split or because of intransigence among officials who don't want change) that the safest way for West clubs who want to join the pyramid to do so in a timely manner would be to do what those East clubs who wanted to two years ago - split away, but perhaps state that you will if the bloc doesn't join en masse.

More generally, I think it is exciting (and should be exciting for the ambitious clubs) to see how far some of them might go if they join senior. I think it's positive for the game, avoids stagnation (at league and non-league level) and I'll be thrilled to see my team draw new teams in the cup etc. I'll always be delighted to see new teams make it into the league, showing some ambition to compete because that's what football should be about, after all!

[Inanimate Carbon Rod]

I honestly thought last nights meeting was a bit of a waste of time. Voting blind on a proposal that seemed clear to me that the management committee had already made their mind up on.
The vote was then a bit of a shambles with no 'show of hands' rather a silence, suggesting to me that everyone in the meeting was either shell shocked at the lack of information, didn't really care, or were just plain bored. 
All the proposals brought forward will have no bearing on 90% of the clubs in our set up, however I think a meeting when they have more information would have been a better idea.
As for the comment made, my club have penned a letter to be sent to the West Region regarding it.

Well done to your club, its right and fitting that we take a stand against racism. Hearing resignation will be asked for.

[Peters Wyngarde]

31 minutes ago, glensmad said:

I understand Clydebank have some sort of club meeting on Sunday. Could be interesting.

Hopefully Clydebank will propose (and pass)

1. a motion of no confidence in the West Management regarding the racism issue
2.  a motion of no confidence in the West Management regarding their decision to seemingly hold back clubs from progressing and developing.
3.  announcing they are setting up a West League and are there any other takers.

Its been clear now for years that self interest in relation to having a blazer is more important than the well being of the clubs to management in the West so its time the West clubs took control of their own destiny.

Progressive West clubs could be in the Pyramid at Tier 6 by July, but they need to act now.

Edited January 17, 2020 by Peters Wyngarde

[glensmad]

4 minutes ago, Eddie Hitler said:

...It's a bit much for west teams to be held back from joining in the name of some form of "solidarity"....

 

4 minutes ago, Eddie Hitler said:

...it amazes me how often that fans of some of the junior clubs (who I accept will know their clubs and their desires better than me) seem not to know what joining the pyramid *necessarily* entails for them. An oft-cited wish is "we still want to play the local games". But it always seems to be ignored that most teams are going to be able to do just that because change (in the form of progressing to anything like a "national" league) is going to come slowly for most, if at all....

Spot on.

[grinderbrokeyourhearts]

Has anyone realised this plan would involve merging all of the below into the LL West?

BSC
Caley Braves
EK
Cumberland
Dalbeattie
Gretna

I'm not entirely against the idea of region's but it seems a bit daft not to just run this at SoS/EoS as it stands. Open up three relegation spots from the LL with a playoff for third bottom vs runner up in both SOS and EoS. That would quicken up equalisation and give a few bumper crowds.

This isn't hard. The Sjfa are making it hard.

For me if that comment last night is true I'd have walked out. Untenable.

[tellyboy]

I believe that there was a meeting between the North Region JFA and the Highland League last week re the Pyramid. No details but understand it is a case of agree or be left to graze on your own. 

[LongTimeLurker]

12 minutes ago, grinderbrokeyourhearts said:

Has anyone realised this plan would involve merging all of the below into the LL West?

BSC
Caley Braves
EK
Cumberland
Dalbeattie
Gretna....

...also suddenly opening up six places for promotion into LL East that would no doubt go to the top licensed EoS premier clubs given the SoS would fall under LL West. Good way to break the logjam on promotion for the top EoS clubs. Something for Bo'ness, Lithgae, Camelon, Penicuik, Broxburn, HoB and Dundonald Bluebell fans to ponder when people start getting negative about this option on here. The only problem is dealing with the ERSJFA-EoS parallel feeder issue obviously, but that's still a problem regardless.

Edited January 17, 2020 by LongTimeLurker

[Burnie_man]

18 minutes ago, grinderbrokeyourhearts said:

For me if that comment last night is true I'd have walked out. Untenable.

Over and above the disgraceful comment, it's an illustration of the complete contempt the Junior game has towards the EoS for simply going about their business.

Clubs shouldn't want these people anywhere near a blazer.

[sweep]

2 hours ago, Marshmallo said:

What would change for Lugar if the West Region was moved en masse to the pyramid at tier 6/7/8/9?

We would good gates like Cumnock Talbot glenafton and we have no idea what teams would leave and further erode the gates in the west cup etc. The difference would be a lot of money

[Burnie_man]

8 minutes ago, tellyboy said:

I believe that there was a meeting between the North Region JFA and the Highland League last week re the Pyramid. No details but understand it is a case of agree or be left to graze on your own. 

Agree as in agree to a link between both leagues?

[FairWeatherFan]

3 minutes ago, LongTimeLurker said:

Good way to break the logjam on promotion for the top EoS clubs. Something for Bo'ness, Lithgae, Camelon, Penicuik, Broxburn, HoB and Dundonald Bluebell fans to ponder when people start getting negative about this option on here.

They're already in the best east league. They have promotion prospects to a wider lowland league, and would be looking for extra promotion to the Lowland League as it is. 

It's not as attractive to them as you make out.

[sweep]

2 hours ago, glensmad said:

I'm confused by this stance, as surely nothing would change for Lugar if the West Region moved into the pyramid ? You'd still be playing the same teams in the same league structure. you would not be adversely affected in any way whatsoever. It seems from your post that your club think everything is going to change and everyone is going to need a licence. That's just simply not the case.

Is gates against Cumnock Talbot Glenafton surely nothing?Does help to take the confusion away?

[FairWeatherFan]

Just now, sweep said:

Is gates against Cumnock Talbot Glenafton surely nothing?Does help to take the confusion away?

Are you getting them every year as it is. Aren't they all Premiership sides?

[LongTimeLurker]

1 minute ago, FairWeatherFan said:

They're already in the best east league. They have promotion prospects to a wider lowland league, and would be looking for extra promotion to the Lowland League as it is. 

It's not as attractive to them as you make out.

If Bo'ness United get promoted this season, it could easily be another five seasons before there is another derby game with Lithgae Rose given the absurd promotion and relegation format that is in place. The status quo has some serious issues as well as it is currently constituted.

[LongTimeLurker]

2 minutes ago, FairWeatherFan said:

Are you getting them every year as it is. Aren't they all Premiership sides?

sectional league cup

[sweep]

2 minutes ago, FairWeatherFan said:

Are you getting them every year as it is. Aren't they all Premiership sides?

League cup section in rotation

[sweep]

1 hour ago, Burnie_man said:

You weren't supposed to be voting on anything, these are only suggestions.  Were you shown the slides as to how each format worked?  The West Regions were supposed to be gathering opinions for each of the four options, not having a vote to decide which one was best, or just blindly backing the option the Board wanted because they have done a deal to stick by the East Region.

This post is the perfect illustration of how some Junior clubs can be easily lead/fooled into believing the Pyramid is bad.

No this post is about the financial impact on some of the smaller clubs

[FairWeatherFan]

5 minutes ago, LongTimeLurker said:

If Bo'ness United get promoted this season, it could easily be another five seasons before there is another derby game with Lithgae Rose given the absurd promotion and relegation format that is in place. The status quo has some serious issues as well as it is currently constituted.

And doesn't need to carve up the Lowland League right now to do it.

If the last two years hadn't been hamstrung by getting the juniors in, no one can say what promotion & relegation would look like to the Lowland League.