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Junior football, what is the future?


Burnie_man

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6 hours ago, mrman2011 said:

MR Man's plan

 

- Abolish Junior Football

That is all, its old and very pointless for 2020. 

Thankfully that will be up to the clubs to decide not zoomers on an internet forum

Edited by santheman
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On 22/12/2019 at 16:30, TFW said:

The new floodlight stipulation was a well thought out ruse from the SFA to keep numbers of Junior teams applying to a minimum?

To be honest, sadly this is so true.
the people who voted on this or allowed this rule to be thrown in is obviously against a lot of junior teams joining the pyramid system.   They have really put the blockers on Scottish Football progression. 
The ones in favour of the junior clubs joining the senior/pyramid system is many, far more than junior stayers but theres many different views on hw it should eb worked, some views with egos, some with looking after their jobs, some wanting their bit of power etc... but one thing we can all agree on is that most want junior teams in the pyramid system.

No matter the floodlight rule coming in was quite clearly a huge stumbling block for many and was introduced soly to do this. and personally I would like to know who it was as they are hindering the progression

Was the previous rule that you had to have floodlights if you reached tier 5 ?
If so then any team in the pyramid at the moment or wanting to join reached promotion to tier 5 then they just wouldn't get it and falls to next under them in line.

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On 22/12/2019 at 17:35, parsforlife said:

 

The floodlight requirement was always going to happen, the way it was implemented was poor tho.

 

Really wish SFA would bring in lower levels of licensing for tier 6 /7(and lower if more teams join). A basic standard for every tier regardless of region and access to scottish cup(even if no prize money to certain licence grades ) would be absolutely fantastic.

 

Yip agree with this


Smaller clubs may dream of ambition but right now might not be able to afford floodlights but if they got into the pyramid and worked away over years they might come into a good year, sponsorship, a sugar daddy or just hard work that they do well and nearly reach a certain tier where the floodlights are required this they might be able to afford to get them in for the next season

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30 minutes ago, Bestsinceslicebread said:

To be honest, sadly this is so true.
the people who voted on this or allowed this rule to be thrown in is obviously against a lot of junior teams joining the pyramid system.   They have really put the blockers on Scottish Football progression. 
The ones in favour of the junior clubs joining the senior/pyramid system is many, far more than junior stayers but theres many different views on hw it should eb worked, some views with egos, some with looking after their jobs, some wanting their bit of power etc... but one thing we can all agree on is that most want junior teams in the pyramid system.

No matter the floodlight rule coming in was quite clearly a huge stumbling block for many and was introduced soly to do this. and personally I would like to know who it was as they are hindering the progression

Was the previous rule that you had to have floodlights if you reached tier 5 ?
If so then any team in the pyramid at the moment or wanting to join reached promotion to tier 5 then they just wouldn't get it and falls to next under them in line.

It was only highland league that required floodlights. But i think having a good standard is neccessary. Junior teams were able to beat lower league sides to players partly because they could pay more as these other teams had to pay for other things before wages.

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57 minutes ago, Bestsinceslicebread said:

To be honest, sadly this is so true.
the people who voted on this or allowed this rule to be thrown in is obviously against a lot of junior teams joining the pyramid system.   They have really put the blockers on Scottish Football progression. 
The ones in favour of the junior clubs joining the senior/pyramid system is many, far more than junior stayers but theres many different views on hw it should eb worked, some views with egos, some with looking after their jobs, some wanting their bit of power etc... but one thing we can all agree on is that most want junior teams in the pyramid system.

No matter the floodlight rule coming in was quite clearly a huge stumbling block for many and was introduced soly to do this. and personally I would like to know who it was as they are hindering the progression

Was the previous rule that you had to have floodlights if you reached tier 5 ?
If so then any team in the pyramid at the moment or wanting to join reached promotion to tier 5 then they just wouldn't get it and falls to next under them in line.

Floodlights were always going to come. They key thing around licensing was to get non-league clubs up to a standard to enter the SPFL and allow for relegation from the SPFL. Keep in mind how Gretna were selected for the SFL ahead of numerous SFA members in part because of the standard of their ground. Also, the level of investment that Annan had to do. Which would later be used for SJFA scare stories around the cost of entering the pyramid.

When the pyramid started the HL had been the first league to trial licensing, so had a head start over the LL in terms of ground standard. The LL was always playing catch up. The cut off for existing SFA members without a license seems to have been summer 2016. Pretty much ever since then floodlights were on the horizon as the next step in licensing.

The bigger act of protection by the SFA was the change to voting rights. If the SFA had their way certainly all the West & East Region would be in the pyramid from summer 2019.

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To be honest, sadly this is so true.

the people who voted on this or allowed this rule to be thrown in is obviously against a lot of junior teams joining the pyramid system.   They have really put the blockers on Scottish Football progression. 

The ones in favour of the junior clubs joining the senior/pyramid system is many, far more than junior stayers but theres many different views on hw it should eb worked, some views with egos, some with looking after their jobs, some wanting their bit of power etc... but one thing we can all agree on is that most want junior teams in the pyramid system.

No matter the floodlight rule coming in was quite clearly a huge stumbling block for many and was introduced soly to do this. and personally I would like to know who it was as they are hindering the progression

Was the previous rule that you had to have floodlights if you reached tier 5 ?

If so then any team in the pyramid at the moment or wanting to join reached promotion to tier 5 then they just wouldn't get it and falls to next under them in line.

Any club that has serious ambitions to reach the Lowland League and beyond can raise the finance to install floodlights. In the last 12 months many clubs big and small have managed it.

 

However as a reminder, you do not need floodlights to "join the pyramid". It's a myth that needs knocked on the head once and for all. I hear it far too often.

 

Merry Christmas everyone!

 

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1 hour ago, Burnie_man said:

Any club that has serious ambitions to reach the Lowland League and beyond can raise the finance to install floodlights. In the last 12 months many clubs big and small have managed it.

 

However as a reminder, you do not need floodlights to "join the pyramid". It's a myth that needs knocked on the head once and for all. I hear it far too often.

 

Merry Christmas everyone!

 

I'm in agreement with everything you say and others have said
Yes the floodlights were always going to arrive and im fine with that, I think they way it just arrived as stated before put some people out.
yes we know this that you do not need floodlights to apply we just need to make sure the floodlights level, whatever tier that may be is at the right tier.
I'm worried that if its too low down a tier, too many clubs will try and install floodlights and then go bust and not go bust just because of the addition strain of floodlights but wages,, buy players, just everyday running but going beyond what they in reality can do..

We want the pyramid system to be better, work the best way, (obviously different views over past few years going on how it should be structured ), we want clubs to flourish at their level and them see potential to move to a higher level. 

 

Yes and Merry xmas to everyone and hope you all have a fantastic new year

 

Edited by Bestsinceslicebread
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21 minutes ago, Bestsinceslicebread said:

I'm in agreement with everything you say and others have said
Yes the floodlights were always going to arrive and im fine with that, I think they way it just arrived as stated before put some people out.
yes we know this that you do not need floodlights to apply we just need to make sure the floodlights level, whatever tier that may be is at the right tier.
I'm worried that if its too low down a tier, too many clubs will try and install floodlights and then go bust and not go bust just because of the addition strain of floodlights but wages,, buy players, just everyday running but going beyond what they in reality can do..

We want the pyramid system to be better, work the best way, (obviously different views over past few years going on how it should be structured ), we want clubs to flourish at their level and them see potential to move to a higher level. 

 

Yes and Merry xmas to everyone and hope you all have a fantastic new year

 

The way that the floodlighting issue was handled will always be a black mark. Go back to the EoS meeting in October they obviously thought the changes would be handled differently and allow for more time.

image.thumb.png.787b2f2615cd095b9cafecd546a6beee.png

It's done with now and as its only tied to licensing, where the line has been drawn seems to be appropriate. You only need a license to compete in the SPFL, HL and LL. At the time the decision on licensing was made 73/76 clubs had floodlights.

Some would say its unfair on leagues below that. There will be clubs below that will be able to get licensed and compete in the SFA Scottish Cup, while for others it would be too big a cost. Unfortunately that has always been the case. How great an advantage has Girvan's or Burntisland's SFA membership been compared to league rivals I wonder?

One of the good things about licensing should apply to any club that gets a new ground in future. It can work as a guide to what's required and just be one planned expense. One of the things said about New Tinto Park is that it should meet most licensing requirements bar the obvious issue of a lack of cover. I'm sure if Benburb had been in the pyramid at the time they would of thrown up something at the time as an example.

It's taken from nonleaguescotland so some of the information might not be entirely accurate and I haven't taken into account groundshares but there's actually a decent amount of Junior clubs that have been able to gain floodlights out with the licensing structure already. Girvan and Auchinleck likely to be two clubs that are actively looking into it in the near future.

West Region 18/63

Ardrossan Winton Rovers
Ashfield
Benburb
Carluke Rovers
Clydebank
Cumnock
Gartcairn
Greenock
Maryhill
Neilston
Petershill
Port Glasgow
Renfrew
Rossvale
Rutherglen Glencairn
Shotts Bon Accord
Whitletts Victoria
Yoker Athletic

East Region 17/38

Arbroath Victoria
Armadale Thistle
Bathgate Thistle
Bo'ness United Juniors
Brechin Victoria
Broughty Athletic
Coupar Angus
Downfield
Dundee North End
Kennoway Star Hearts
Kirriemuir Thistle
Linlithgow Rose CFC
Livingston United
Lochee Harp
Rosyth
Sauchie CFC
Syngenta

North Region 8/32

Aberdeen University
Banks O'Dee
Burghead Thistle
Deveronside
Fraserburgh United
Hermes
Longside
Montrose Roselea

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21 minutes ago, FairWeatherFan said:

The way that the floodlighting issue was handled will always be a black mark. Go back to the EoS meeting in October they obviously thought the changes would be handled differently and allow for more time.

image.thumb.png.787b2f2615cd095b9cafecd546a6beee.png

It's done with now and as its only tied to licensing, where the line has been drawn seems to be appropriate. You only need a license to compete in the SPFL, HL and LL. At the time the decision on licensing was made 73/76 clubs had floodlights.

Some would say its unfair on leagues below that. There will be clubs below that will be able to get licensed and compete in the SFA Scottish Cup, while for others it would be too big a cost. Unfortunately that has always been the case. How great an advantage has Girvan's or Burntisland's SFA membership been compared to league rivals I wonder?

One of the good things about licensing should apply to any club that gets a new ground in future. It can work as a guide to what's required and just be one planned expense. One of the things said about New Tinto Park is that it should meet most licensing requirements bar the obvious issue of a lack of cover. I'm sure if Benburb had been in the pyramid at the time they would of thrown up something at the time as an example.

It's taken from nonleaguescotland so some of the information might not be entirely accurate and I haven't taken into account groundshares but there's actually a decent amount of Junior clubs that have been able to gain floodlights out with the licensing structure already. Girvan and Auchinleck likely to be two clubs that are actively looking into it in the near future.

West Region 18/63

Ardrossan Winton Rovers
Ashfield
Benburb
Carluke Rovers
Clydebank
Cumnock
Gartcairn
Greenock
Maryhill
Neilston
Petershill
Port Glasgow
Renfrew
Rossvale
Rutherglen Glencairn
Shotts Bon Accord
Whitletts Victoria
Yoker Athletic

East Region 17/38

Arbroath Victoria
Armadale Thistle
Bathgate Thistle
Bo'ness United Juniors
Brechin Victoria
Broughty Athletic
Coupar Angus
Downfield
Dundee North End
Kennoway Star Hearts
Kirriemuir Thistle
Linlithgow Rose CFC
Livingston United
Lochee Harp
Rosyth
Sauchie CFC
Syngenta

North Region 8/32

Aberdeen University
Banks O'Dee
Burghead Thistle
Deveronside
Fraserburgh United
Hermes
Longside
Montrose Roselea

Armadale and livi dont have lights

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Armadale and livi dont have lights
And Syngenta don't have access to the licensable dressing rooms at Westfield so sharing at Dunipace makes no difference to their ability to get a licence, despite their hosts being well along in the process.

Floodlights, while one of the harder issues to solve, isn't the only one.
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2 hours ago, gaz5 said:

And Syngenta don't have access to the licensable dressing rooms at Westfield so sharing at Dunipace makes no difference to their ability to get a licence, despite their hosts being well along in the process.

Floodlights, while one of the harder issues to solve, isn't the only one.

Yeh their is more too it than lights a lot more

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20 hours ago, Burnie_man said:

Any club that has serious ambitions to reach the Lowland League and beyond can raise the finance to install floodlights. In the last 12 months many clubs big and small have managed it.

 

However as a reminder, you do not need floodlights to "join the pyramid". It's a myth that needs knocked on the head once and for all. I hear it far too often.

 

Merry Christmas everyone!

 

How did Blackburn raise the finance for their floodlights? I'm sure it will be of interest to other teams that have ambitions of going down the same route.

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Think Blackburn were lucky (or forward thinking and sensible depending on how you look at it) timing wise in terms of larger grants still being available. Its some of the smaller clubs that are doing it at the moment that probably have a story to tell:

If St Andrews United can do it, it shouldn't be mission impossible for most west region clubs over the course of a few seasons? You don't need to have it to enter the pyramid at tier 6 or below, so most ambitious smaller clubs in the west would have several years worth of difficult to achieve promotions in front of them before it would ever be likely to be a requirement, if the WRSJFA joins intact next season. That provides plenty of time to put the pieces together on licensing and build for the future.

Edited by LongTimeLurker
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How did Blackburn raise the finance for their floodlights? I'm sure it will be of interest to other teams that have ambitions of going down the same route.
Dunno shuggie, they are well over 35 years old, I remember playing on the floodlight ash pitch when at school.
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Absolutely, this truth needs repeating as many times as is needed until it sinks in.

I keep hearing the phrase, something like "this pyramid thing is going to cost a fortune".

No it is not. It's not going to cost you a penny more.

I repeat again, a club licence is only going to be required for access to tier 5. That means that a club will only need a licence if they are good enough to win what is currently the West Region Premiership. To do that, and beat off the challenge from the likes of Auchinleck Talbot, Kilwinning Rangers, Pollok etc, then you'll need to have some decent form of financial backing anyway. You can't win that league paying chocolate buttons.

For the other clubs in the West, absolutely nothing would change, other than you can now market your club as "playing in tier X of the Scottish pyramid". You'll still be playing the same teams, in the same league structure, at the same grounds.

There is absolutely nothing to fear about joining the pyramid for the West teams, but plenty to gain in terms of marketing opportunities.

Don't be fooled by the (perhaps deliberate) misinformation which is circulating. Do your own research. You'll find out there is absolutely nothing to lose.
Did you post previously that you'd been tasked with making a plan to get the Glens licence ready?

If so how did you get on? Have the licencing committee been welcoming with you being near neighbours of the SFA?

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40 minutes ago, Tutankhamen said:

The Devil's Lanterns should be banned. 

On a more serious note, how did teams train midweek in years past? There wasn't a council owned pitch in Scotland that had floodlights on them pre the 1980s at the earliest.

Usually in a small gym.

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Did you post previously that you'd been tasked with making a plan to get the Glens licence ready?

If so how did you get on? Have the licencing committee been welcoming with you being near neighbours of the SFA?

It is a work in progress, we have not yet formally submitted a licence application.
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It is a work in progress, we have not yet formally submitted a licence application.
Cheers, I take it from your initial reply your not too overwhelmed with it? I know it's a pot of paperwork but definitely possible for most bigger west clubs
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