Junior football, what is the future?

[craigkillie]

The big teams in the West clearly have the capability to get licensed fairly quickly, just as many in the EoS have over the last couple of years.

[Burnie_man]

23 minutes ago, craigkillie said:

The big teams in the West clearly have the capability to get licensed fairly quickly, just as many in the EoS have over the last couple of years.

You shouldn't make major changes to tier 5 based on assumptions, that's why it won't happen.  Look at the Bonnyrigg situation, plus there is no guarantee that further significant Licence changes won't happen between now and 2021.  It would be pretty bad if there were not enough Licenced clubs to fill a LL West 18 months from now.

Get the West in at tier 6, get the clubs working on Licences, and then review where we are a few years down the road.  A LL West/East split long term is desirable, but not as a first step at getting West clubs in IMO.

 

 

[FairWeatherFan]

I think the best thing is just to get clubs in the pyramid next year definitively. Another 18 months of waiting doesn't do anyone any good.

You get option 1 agreed in January. All you then have to do is confirm the EoS/SoS/West playoff format and you're set for 2020-21. No worrying about boundaries, mergers or SPFL approval.

[AlanCamelonfan]

4 minutes ago, FairWeatherFan said:

I think the best thing is just to get clubs in the pyramid next year definitively. Another 18 months of waiting doesn't do anyone any good.

You get option 1 agreed in January. All you then have to do is confirm the EoS/SoS/West playoff format and you're set for 2020-21. No worrying about boundaries, mergers or SPFL approval.

Yeh that's a must. But if teams start moving over to eosfl. I dont know why the south clubs dont just have a meeting and if some are moving see who's coming. It will happen eventually

[LongTimeLurker]

1 hour ago, Burnie_man said:

No club can play at tier 5 without a Licence.  The suggestion is that a West/East LL split happens for 2021/22, which may be optimistic if the idea gains any traction (I don't think it will)...

So at that point is it automatically at odds with options 1 or 2? Let the west in at tier 6 either way (and possibly the east at tier 7 should option 2 be OK with the EoS and the HL:LL boundary is lifted) for 2020/21 then split the LL for 2021/22 after clubs have had time to get licensed.

Edited December 17, 2019 by LongTimeLurker

[Burnie_man]

21 minutes ago, FairWeatherFan said:

I think the best thing is just to get clubs in the pyramid next year definitively. Another 18 months of waiting doesn't do anyone any good.

You get option 1 agreed in January. All you then have to do is confirm the EoS/SoS/West playoff format and you're set for 2020-21. No worrying about boundaries, mergers or SPFL approval.

That has to be the outcome of this. As we are well aware, trying to get consensus for any sort of change is almost impossible, this one however is an open goal.  Another season delay just won't wash.

It will also have the knock-on effect of pushing more clubs to join the EoS, thereby going some way to resolving that issue, at least south of the Tay. 

[Burnie_man]

1 minute ago, LongTimeLurker said:

So at that point is it automatically at odds with options 1 or 2? Let the west in at tier 6 either way (and possibly the east at tier 7 should option 2 be OK with the EoS and the HL:LL boundary is lifted) for 2020/21 then split the LL for 2021/22 after clubs have had time get licensed.

I doubt the EoS clubs will agree to ERJFA at tier 7 unless it's a one time only arrangement leading to full merger for 21-22.  There's no suggestion of that however.

[FairWeatherFan]

8 minutes ago, LongTimeLurker said:

So at that point is it automatically at odds with options 1 or 2? Let the west in at tier 6 either way (and possibly the east at tier 7 should option 2 be OK with the EoS and the HL:LL boundary is lifted) for 2020/21 then split the LL for 2021/22 after clubs have had time to get licensed.

Nobody knows what lifting the boundary would mean. Is it getting replaced? If so, replaced to what? Is it going to be left to clubs to choose what leagues they want to join? It's something that has to be discussed and that takes time.

And it would be better coming from the SPFL so that the lower leagues can try and get a concession like automatic relegation from SPFL2.

[mrman2011]

Love the idea. Time to abolish Junior football its too bigoted for 2020

[energyzone]

Do the officials at any of the West junior clubs have any communication with the SJFA regarding a potential pyramid move at the end of the season or are they as in the dark as we are?

I imagine that even if implemented for next season, not much will change at all for clubs in the West, but for such a major change (at least on paper) I would have thought a few of the clubs would have communicated any news (or lack of it) to their members. I haven't heard a thing from any clubs about it. Are different club officials speaking to each other about it and if so, is there anything else we can be told about what is or isn't going on?

[FairWeatherFan]

Thought about Option 4 a bit and realised it makes a mess of things beyond just getting enough licensed teams for 2021-22

Option 4:

• Lowland League = No relegation
• West Premiership = No relegation as they will lose 4 or more clubs to the LL West
• EoS Premier = No relegation as they will lose 4 or more clubs to the LL East

You won't know the number or geographic division of applicants needed until May when the SPFL play-off is basically complete.

The likes of the West Region as a whole sees a knock on effect 16-16-16-15 becomes say 8-16-16-15. Leagues not just clubs are scrambling around trying to decide formats for 2021-22 in May 2021.

Option 3:

Already rejected

Option 2 and Option 1:

The important thing here is that Tier 5 and Tier 6 of both options is the same.

Tier 5 = Lowland League
Tier 6 = EoS Premier v. SoSFL v. West Premiership in the LL Play-off

Go into the PWG meetings hopefully it works out like this.

January:

Agree to Tier 6 EoS Premier v. SoSFL v. West Premiership in the LL Play-off
Discuss the HL/LL boundary. There's no SPFL representative there so unless Petrie is pulling double duty as SFA/SPFL it can't be more than preferences.

Homework

Lowland League = Draw up the Lowland League Play-off rules and format
SJFA = Confirm Junior Cup changes to meet Lowland League Play-off deadline are in effect. That's kind of what this year's all about. Maybe there's no need for this to be said.
EoSFL = Try another meeting with East Region representatives to come up with a solution to the situation.
SFA = Discuss the HL/LL boundary preferences at the Professional Game Board level.

March:

SFA update on the HL/LL boundary situation
Lowland League present the Lowland League Play-off and that it take place from XX/May/2021 to XX/May/2021. SJFA confirm they can meet that deadline for a West Premiership champion. It gets agreed for 2020-21.
EoSFL update on their situation if anything's changed. Maybe they've had applicants from the ERJFA or not which could change matters. The HL/LL boundary news might have an effect here.

Then you're kind of done. Maybe there's a solution to the East in time for 2020-21 beyond individual clubs moving to the EoSFL, maybe not. 

 

[glensmad]

Do the officials at any of the West junior clubs have any communication with the SJFA regarding a potential pyramid move at the end of the season or are they as in the dark as we are?

Yes they have had communication.

I understand the West Region management are meeting very soon to discuss the matter further, but I l think the next General Meeting of the West clubs isn't till the end of January.

[Burnie_man]

2 hours ago, glensmad said:

Yes they have had communication.

I understand the West Region management are meeting very soon to discuss the matter further, but I l think the next General Meeting of the West clubs isn't till the end of January.

Well those at the PWG were asked to take away the four "suggestions" by Petrie and speak to their member clubs and ask for feedback, and then report back at next PWG end of January.  EoS having a general meeting next month to discuss.

Is this happening with WRJFA and ERJFA? because it should be, not just TJ talking to Regional blazers.

Edited December 17, 2019 by Burnie_man

[the sniper]

Well those at the PWG were asked to take away the four "suggestions" by Petrie and speak to their member clubs and ask for feedback, and then report back at next PWG end of January.  EoS having a general meeting next month to discuss.
Is this happening with WRJFA and ERJFA? because it should be, not just TJ talking to Regional blazers.

What's to stop the east coming it at tier 6 the same as the west ?

[Burnie_man]

Just now, the sniper said:

26 minutes ago, Burnie_man said:

Well those at the PWG were asked to take away the four "suggestions" by Petrie and speak to their member clubs and ask for feedback, and then report back at next PWG end of January.  EoS having a general meeting next month to discuss.
Is this happening with WRJFA and ERJFA? because it should be, not just TJ talking to Regional blazers.

What's to stop the east coming it at tier 6 the same as the west ?

Already rejected, the only reason that it's one of the "suggestions" is I believe TJ insisted on putting it in again.  LL and EoS unanimously against a second east league. Waste of time discussing it.

As I said earlier, one of the other suggestions was ERJFA in at tier 7 feeding into EoS Premier, but  I imagine the EoS would only agree to that if it's with a view to full merger after one season, not a permanent arrangement.

West in only next season remains the likely outcome IMO.

[the sniper]

Already rejected, the only reason that it's one of the "suggestions" is I believe TJ insisted on putting it in again.  LL and EoS unanimously against a second east league. Waste of time discussing it.
As I said earlier, one of the other suggestions was ERJFA in at tier 7 feeding into EoS Premier, but  I imagine the EoS would only agree to that if it's with a view to full merger after one season, not a permanent arrangement.
West in only next season remains the likely outcome IMO.

Surely all organisations should be more transparent with what's going on as all the talk of clubs leaving or only west at tier 6 or both at tier 6 it wouldn't take much for everyone to say what could happen going forward

[glensmad]

Well those at the PWG were asked to take away the four "suggestions" by Petrie and speak to their member clubs and ask for feedback, and then report back at next PWG end of January.  EoS having a general meeting next month to discuss.
Is this happening with WRJFA and ERJFA? because it should be, not just TJ talking to Regional blazers.

It is happening in the West, yes.

[parsforlife]

Already rejected, the only reason that it's one of the "suggestions" is I believe TJ insisted on putting it in again.  LL and EoS unanimously against a second east league. Waste of time discussing it.
.

TJ playing games again?

He puts the options to WJFA and EJFA, EJFA want option 3 or 4. WJFA mostly want option 1 but a few prefer other options(but would take option 1 over nothing)

TJ returns ‘no clear will of junior clubs, we can’t peruse any option at this time’

TJ keeps his job a little while longer.

[Burnie_man]

Surely all organisations should be more transparent with what's going on as all the talk of clubs leaving or only west at tier 6 or both at tier 6 it wouldn't take much for everyone to say what could happen going forward

EoS clubs are already in possession of the paperwork re the four suggestions I believe. Are any of the Junior clubs?

[the sniper]

EoS clubs are already in possession of the paperwork re the four suggestions I believe. Are any of the Junior clubs?

I've no idea I'm not aware of anything most information I've seen on here it seems dejavu from last year