Junior football, what is the future?

[Robert James]

10 hours ago, FairWeatherFan said:

It hasn't been all that quiet. Coming out of a West Region meeting earlier there seems to be the believe that the West Region will be allowed to enter on its own for 2020-21. That's a shift from the SJFA's West & East in together with the North left to do its own thing.

There will probably be an update over how the SJFA's trial of SFA rules and ability to meet the requirements of the pyramid calendar. The proposal of the West coming in on its own. The trial seems to be going okay and the West idea already has backing from the senior leagues.

Then you'll get the details that probably won't get anywhere near resolved today:

• LL play-off format
• Possible additional promotion to the LL
• HL/LL boundary and Tayside's place in the pyramid

 

 

Sounds promising for the West. LL play-off format must be resolved for 2020/21 if the West clubs enter the pyramid.

Any review of the boundary , would need to involve the SPFL and the HFL.. clubs, and IMO it would take at least another two years, to reach any agreement............unless of course the SFA rules out any need for a review, or future changes.  

Yes, additional promotion to the LL needs to be changed in the future, to avoid a  club "log jam" between tiers 5 & 6. However this is NOT necessary for 2020/21, given the current small number of West juniors having floodlights and licences.

 

[Sergeant Wilson]

3 hours ago, FairWeatherFan said:

 

• Laura Dougan (Head of Football Governance, Scottish FA)
•  
• Vicki McMullan (Disciplinary Department Manager & Judicial Panel Secretary, Scottish FA)

 

Wid.

[FairWeatherFan]

2 minutes ago, Sergeant Wilson said:

Wid.

Not what I was expecting, but this thread has gone just about everywhere else so far

[Monalie]

Any news from this meeting?

 

[Burnie_man]

All participants to go back to their members to discuss 4 "suggestions" from Petrie ie 4 different options/solutions. Next PWG late January.

I believe one of them is west in, east not, for next season.

North not mentioned.

[FairWeatherFan]

7 minutes ago, Burnie_man said:

All participants to go back to their members to discuss 4 "suggestions" from Petrie ie 4 different options/solutions. Next PWG late January.

I believe one of them is west in, east not, for next season.

North not mentioned.

Presumably the North won't get mentioned as this is still technically the Lowland Sub Group. Which is farcical considering one of the issues here is the HL/LL East Region.

Any insight into the other ideas?

[Burnie_man]

Presumably the North won't get mentioned as this is still technically the Lowland Sub Group. Which is farcical considering one of the issues here is the HL/LL East Region.
Any insight into the other ideas?

Dont believe the dividing line was even discussed, which is a bit of an issue if solutions are being suggested for ERJFA. From past experience Petrie doesn't quite get it or see it as being a thing.

[GNU_Linux]

On the other ideas one I think would be the bonkers east juniors in wholesale at tier 6 that is never going to be a starter & is part of the reason things have dragged on for so long. The other two I'm stumped on. I don't envision a breakway WOSL independent of the SJFA being one of the proposals.

[FairWeatherFan]

6 minutes ago, GNU_Linux said:

On the other ideas one I think would be the bonkers east juniors in wholesale at tier 6 that is never going to be a starter & is part of the reason things have dragged on for so long. The other two I'm stumped on. I don't envision a breakway WOSL independent of the SJFA being one of the proposals.

If these are coming from Petrie the West Premiership, SoSFL, EoS Premier and Tayside league could be raised since it's basically a former EoS suggestion.

[Burnie_man]

I think the eventual outcome of this will be the WRJFA in for next season on it's own, with more Fife and West Lothian clubs moving to the EoS.

The ERJFA will eventually become a Tayside League by default, and ironically place it in a stronger position to negotiate Pyramid entry as it won't cover EoS territory.

This is assuming TJ doesn't place any blockers on West coming in without East.

[Boswelldriver]

I think the eventual outcome of this will be the WRJFA in for next season on it's own, with more Fife and West Lothian clubs moving to the EoS.
The ERJFA will eventually become a Tayside League by default, and ironically place it in a stronger position to negotiate Pyramid entry as it won't cover EoS territory.
This is assuming TJ doesn't place any blockers on West coming in without East.

At what tier will the West go in at? Sorry if this question has already been asked

[Burnie_man]

2 minutes ago, Boswelldriver said:

44 minutes ago, Burnie_man said:

I think the eventual outcome of this will be the WRJFA in for next season on it's own, with more Fife and West Lothian clubs moving to the EoS.
The ERJFA will eventually become a Tayside League by default, and ironically place it in a stronger position to negotiate Pyramid entry as it won't cover EoS territory.
This is assuming TJ doesn't place any blockers on West coming in without East.

At what tier will the West go in at? Sorry if this question has already been asked

Tier 6 alongside EoS and SoS

[FairWeatherFan]

2 minutes ago, Boswelldriver said:

44 minutes ago, Burnie_man said:

I think the eventual outcome of this will be the WRJFA in for next season on it's own, with more Fife and West Lothian clubs moving to the EoS.
The ERJFA will eventually become a Tayside League by default, and ironically place it in a stronger position to negotiate Pyramid entry as it won't cover EoS territory.
This is assuming TJ doesn't place any blockers on West coming in without East.

At what tier will the West go in at? Sorry if this question has already been asked

6th Tier with a promotion route to the Lowland League (5th Tier).

[LongTimeLurker]

According to a poster called Prorege on Nonleague matters:

https://nonleaguematters.co.uk/forum/gforum.cgi?post=957825#957825

Things are moving and it seems certain that there will be a West League in the pyramid system, probably in 2020/1 but certainly in 2021/2. Either the SJFA have abandoned their all or nobody approach, or the West Region Juniors have told them they'll go it alone.
Other matters still simmering are Lowland League 2, and the re-alignment of the Highland / Lowland border to the natural Stonehaven / Helensburgh line.

https://nonleaguematters.co.uk/forum/gforum.cgi?post=957829#957829

If the line moves to the Helensburgh / Stonehaven HBF then Brechin is south of it.
Brechin, supported by Forfar, Montrose and Arbroath are lobbying for the line to be moved so they fall into LL territory.
They argue that all 4 clubs train in the central belt and their playing squads are primarily based in the Forth-Clyde valley. The players only go to the home ground for home games. The location of the towns would be peripheral to the HL and recruiting players to commit to the daunting HL schedule would be difficult.
They believe sending them to the HL would be counter-intuitive.
Furthermore, they feel, there are several HL clubs who would invest heavily for the glory of winning the HL but have no interest in moving up to the SPFL. The LL would be more of a level playing field with all likely winners committed to promotion.
Scottish football bodies respond to what their member clubs want rather than what spreadsheets and calculators suggest. The SPFL could easily withdraw from the relegation play off if the pyramid arrangements do not suit them.

[Ranaldo Bairn]

Very interesting, and I might even venture, sensible too.

[FairWeatherFan]

6 minutes ago, LongTimeLurker said:

According to a poster called Prorege on Nonleague matters:

https://nonleaguematters.co.uk/forum/gforum.cgi?post=957825#957825

Things are moving and it seems certain that there will be a West League in the pyramid system, probably in 2020/1 but certainly in 2021/2. Either the SJFA have abandoned their all or nobody approach, or the West Region Juniors have told them they'll go it alone.
Other matters still simmering are Lowland League 2, and the re-alignment of the Highland / Lowland border to the natural Stonehaven / Helensburgh line.

https://nonleaguematters.co.uk/forum/gforum.cgi?post=957829#957829

If the line moves to the Helensburgh / Stonehaven HBF then Brechin is south of it.
Brechin, supported by Forfar, Montrose and Arbroath are lobbying for the line to be moved so they fall into LL territory.
They argue that all 4 clubs train in the central belt and their playing squads are primarily based in the Forth-Clyde valley. The players only go to the home ground for home games. The location of the towns would be peripheral to the HL and recruiting players to commit to the daunting HL schedule would be difficult.
They believe sending them to the HL would be counter-intuitive.
Furthermore, they feel, there are several HL clubs who would invest heavily for the glory of winning the HL but have no interest in moving up to the SPFL. The LL would be more of a level playing field with all likely winners committed to promotion.
Scottish football bodies respond to what their member clubs want rather than what spreadsheets and calculators suggest. The SPFL could easily withdraw from the relegation play off if the pyramid arrangements do not suit them.

That's all from before the PWG meeting by the way. A lot of it seems to just be an opionion as well.

[ian44wood]

From December 6th. 

 

[Burnie_man]

31 minutes ago, LongTimeLurker said:

According to a poster called Prorege on Nonleague matters:

https://nonleaguematters.co.uk/forum/gforum.cgi?post=957825#957825

Things are moving and it seems certain that there will be a West League in the pyramid system, probably in 2020/1 but certainly in 2021/2. Either the SJFA have abandoned their all or nobody approach, or the West Region Juniors have told them they'll go it alone.
Other matters still simmering are Lowland League 2, and the re-alignment of the Highland / Lowland border to the natural Stonehaven / Helensburgh line.

https://nonleaguematters.co.uk/forum/gforum.cgi?post=957829#957829

If the line moves to the Helensburgh / Stonehaven HBF then Brechin is south of it.
Brechin, supported by Forfar, Montrose and Arbroath are lobbying for the line to be moved so they fall into LL territory.
They argue that all 4 clubs train in the central belt and their playing squads are primarily based in the Forth-Clyde valley. The players only go to the home ground for home games. The location of the towns would be peripheral to the HL and recruiting players to commit to the daunting HL schedule would be difficult.
They believe sending them to the HL would be counter-intuitive.
Furthermore, they feel, there are several HL clubs who would invest heavily for the glory of winning the HL but have no interest in moving up to the SPFL. The LL would be more of a level playing field with all likely winners committed to promotion.
Scottish football bodies respond to what their member clubs want rather than what spreadsheets and calculators suggest. The SPFL could easily withdraw from the relegation play off if the pyramid arrangements do not suit them.

Let's just get everyone in the LL

[LongTimeLurker]

The LL2 and reconfigured HL:LL boundary line scenarios may explain how there can be four possible models for league structures up for discussion, and why the SFA board representatives at these meetings never seem to see the Tay Bridge boundary as being carved in stone. Time will tell. I've always been skeptical that the SPFL, SFA and HL would care enough over whether Tayside clubs were in the LL or not to oppose a move to shift that line if both junior and senior Tayside clubs expressed a strong preference for the LL.

Edited December 13, 2019 by LongTimeLurker

[Burnie_man]

The HL/LL boundary and LL2 are not contained in any of the four options, which don't contain anything remotely radical from what I understand.  Rod Petrie put them together remember......