Junior football, what is the future?

[cmontheloknow]

21 hours ago, Marshmallo said:

The SoS and West Juniors have a geographical overlap too. They are both leagues for the West of the country in the Lowland League area. The SoS pub league needs to be addressed rather than ignored.

The overlap is slight though. It formed as a league for clubs in old Wigtownshire, Kirkcudbrightshire and Dumfriesshire with the odd guesting team from Ayrshire. There was also a Junior set-up in that area too at the time. It died off and the SoS has very gradually taken teams from further and further north. They would not need to do that if the WoS existed.

[Burnie_man]

20 hours ago, Ginaro said:

The SOS either needs to be confirmed as the LL's west feeder and junior clubs told to move to it (essentially a takeover) - or be removed from the tier 6 play-off and the WRJFA gets told to incorporate the SOS clubs (probably a good idea to regionalise its bottom tier).

As we should all know by now, the SFA have no power to tell a league body to do anything, far less effectively disband.  Probably long term it would be a good idea for some sort of hook-up between SoS and a future west league, but it really is upto SoS to agree to it first.

[Burnie_man]

On ‎28‎/‎11‎/‎2019 at 08:21, wow-wee said:

Not officially been told to club's I can't go into details where the info came from but was told that this is the proposal being put forward in December.

Rod Petrie has been doing the rounds I believe, he was at the EoS Board meeting this week, therefore I assume he was also at a WRJFA meeting.

The EoS re-iterated it's stance that it doesn't have an objection to the west entering.  Also understand that the EoS have again met with their ERJFA counterparts but little progress, with the Juniors described to me as remaining unmoved when it came to compromise, reading between the lines I get the impression that they don't want a merger. 

So if any east Junior clubs south of the Tay want to enter the Pyramid next season, the EoS is likely to be your only option, and I believe at least 2 clubs are already talking about it.

I foresee the West moving in en-masse for next season, and further east Junior clubs leaving for the EoS.  This may become clearer after the PWG meeting in a couple of weeks.

[FairWeatherFan]

1 hour ago, cmontheloknow said:

The overlap is slight though. It formed as a league for clubs in old Wigtownshire, Kirkcudbrightshire and Dumfriesshire with the odd guesting team from Ayrshire. There was also a Junior set-up in that area too at the time. It died off and the SoS has very gradually taken teams from further and further north. They would not need to do that if the WoS existed.

If they didn't do it then the SoSFL would be sitting at 13 clubs. Then the only reason they're that high a number is due to the Dumfries & District Amateur league disbanded.

[FairWeatherFan]

1 minute ago, Burnie_man said:

Also understand that the EoS have again met with their ERJFA counterparts but little progress, with the Juniors described to me as remaining unmoved when it came to compromise, reading between the lines I get the impression that they don't want a merger.

How much of that stance is around not going to the Highland League for North of Tay clubs though?

[Marshmallo]

1 hour ago, cmontheloknow said:

The overlap is slight though. It formed as a league for clubs in old Wigtownshire, Kirkcudbrightshire and Dumfriesshire with the odd guesting team from Ayrshire. There was also a Junior set-up in that area too at the time. It died off and the SoS has very gradually taken teams from further and further north. They would not need to do that if the WoS existed.

It is at tier 6 as the feeder for the west side of the country. Talbot were allegedly told to join that league if they became licensed. They have a side from Kilmarnock and a B team for a club based in Strathclyde Park. There is absolutely a geographic overlap.

I would offer SoS clubs the conference format the EoS adopted, or the chance to form a regional league at tier 8 alongside an Ayrshire District League and a 'Central' League.

[Burnie_man]

1 minute ago, FairWeatherFan said:

How much of that stance is around not going to the Highland League for North of Tay clubs though?

No idea, I don't know what has been discussed, but all it does is increase the prospect that the ERJFA will die a slow death to the point where all they will be left with is Tayside clubs anyway, particularly if the West move next season.

I'm expecting several Junior clubs from Lothians and Fife to move over to the EoS for next season.  Glenrothes are an example of a club who were struggling but who have reinvigorated themselves off the pitch as a result of their move this season, that's not gone unnoticed, and as we have said, Broxburn and Penicuik's performances will have registered in Junior circles.

[GNU_Linux]

Re:SOS they are a bit hard to read as in all the minutes that've been posted they've spoke at most once or twice. With their lack of licensed clubs, low chance of new clubs being licensed, a stronf Stranraer reserves & it's low chance of winning a playoff vs EOS they are probably content to go with the flow as they may feel the goings on around them don't really impact much beyond gaining a team being relegated from the LL if Gretna or Dalbeattie come down.

[FairWeatherFan]

10 minutes ago, GNU_Linux said:

Re:SOS they are a bit hard to read as in all the minutes that've been posted they've spoke at most once or twice. With their lack of licensed clubs, low chance of new clubs being licensed, a stronf Stranraer reserves & it's low chance of winning a playoff vs EOS they are probably content to go with the flow as they may feel the goings on around them don't really impact much beyond gaining a team being relegated from the LL if Gretna or Dalbeattie come down.

I had mixed feelings over Richard Osborne's stance on things. Then I found some quotes from him in 2012, long before the Lowland League. Around East Kilbride looking to apply and the idea that a pyramid system was coming.

Quote

South secretary Richard Osborne successfully moved that the South of Scotland’s executive committee should meet East Kilbride officials and in return their officials should give an address at the next league meeting next February.

Mr Osborne made it clear that despite claims that East Kilbride FC which consists of 30 teams and 650 players, would be playing in the South next season, no decision had been made.

He added: “We can’t just continue the way we are because the nature of football is that we have to change and progress or we’ll end up like dinosaurs

“There’s always going to be some clubs that are more progressive than others, some that are better off financially than others. My personal opinion is that the pyramid system will come in, in some form or another some time.”

He said the South association had the choice of being robust and part of that pyramid or not and that it would not do them any good if they were seen to be blocking teams coming in.

 

[Beenzon-Toste]

No idea, I don't know what has been discussed, but all it does is increase the prospect that the ERJFA will die a slow death to the point where all they will be left with is Tayside clubs anyway, particularly if the West move next season.
I'm expecting several Junior clubs from Lothians and Fife to move over to the EoS for next season.  Glenrothes are an example of a club who were struggling but who have reinvigorated themselves off the pitch as a result of their move this season, that's not gone unnoticed, and as we have said, Broxburn and Penicuik's performances will have registered in Junior circles.

Perhaps the ERSJFA clubs are happy to wait till after the WRSJFA are confirmed as members of the Pyramid. Then see what happens once their 63 votes come into play against the EOSL's 39.

[Ped]

Dont think the voting works that way the region votes on those decisions en bloc ie east have a vote south and lowland etc and I'm sure lowland and east voted together in denying the east juniors entry maybe someone can confirm this 

Edited November 29, 2019 by Ped

[Tutankhamen]

So the River Tay was a Stalingrad in the East for the pyramidites but anything goes for the South of Scotland League border?

[FairWeatherFan]

19 minutes ago, Beenzon-Toste said:

3 hours ago, Burnie_man said:

No idea, I don't know what has been discussed, but all it does is increase the prospect that the ERJFA will die a slow death to the point where all they will be left with is Tayside clubs anyway, particularly if the West move next season.
I'm expecting several Junior clubs from Lothians and Fife to move over to the EoS for next season.  Glenrothes are an example of a club who were struggling but who have reinvigorated themselves off the pitch as a result of their move this season, that's not gone unnoticed, and as we have said, Broxburn and Penicuik's performances will have registered in Junior circles.

Perhaps the ERSJFA clubs are happy to wait till after the WRSJFA are confirmed as members of the Pyramid. Then see what happens once their 63 votes come into play against the EOSL's 39.

It doesn't work like that. It's the league bodies that have equal representation not individual clubs. And a simple majority doesn't work either. Everyone needs to agree.

3 minutes ago, Tutankhamen said:

So the River Tay was a Stalingrad in the East for the pyramidites but anything goes for the South of Scotland League border?

It's a set boundary and involves the SPFL to change it. The SPFL has never been a part of the PWG meetings.

[LongTimeLurker]

23 minutes ago, Ped said:

Dont think the voting works that way the region votes on those decisions en bloc ie east have a vote south and lowland etc and I'm sure lowland and east voted together in denying the east juniors entry maybe someone can confirm this 

It all boils down to the SFA, LL, EoS and SoS all having to agree to any changes made to the promotion playoff into the LL before anything can happen. That means nothing will happen that one of those leagues/associations opposes.

Edited November 29, 2019 by LongTimeLurker

[Marshmallo]

26 minutes ago, Tutankhamen said:

So the River Tay was a Stalingrad in the East for the pyramidites but anything goes for the South of Scotland League border?

It is strange to me. But it has parallels to the North Juniors being completed excluded by TJ and his fluffers on here eg @locheeboy @superbigal

Edited November 29, 2019 by Marshmallo

[Tutankhamen]

Hopefully this can be sorted out in time. The Junior clubs should be pushing for more representation in the Big Scottish. 3 or 4 teams is a joke even with an extra couple of full SFA members added on.

[GNU_Linux]

Perhaps the ERSJFA clubs are happy to wait till after the WRSJFA are confirmed as members of the Pyramid. Then see what happens once their 63 votes come into play against the EOSL's 39.

 

Close to 30 clubs in the eastern half of Scotland had to move to gain pyramid access & all that comes with it. Why should those who are able to move to the EOS & have chosen not to get special treatment?

 

Ofc the Tayside clubs are a different issue as they can't move due to an issue outwith the remit & control of the EOS.

 

[Burnie_man]

1 hour ago, Beenzon-Toste said:

4 hours ago, Burnie_man said:

No idea, I don't know what has been discussed, but all it does is increase the prospect that the ERJFA will die a slow death to the point where all they will be left with is Tayside clubs anyway, particularly if the West move next season.
I'm expecting several Junior clubs from Lothians and Fife to move over to the EoS for next season.  Glenrothes are an example of a club who were struggling but who have reinvigorated themselves off the pitch as a result of their move this season, that's not gone unnoticed, and as we have said, Broxburn and Penicuik's performances will have registered in Junior circles.

Perhaps the ERSJFA clubs are happy to wait till after the WRSJFA are confirmed as members of the Pyramid. Then see what happens once their 63 votes come into play against the EOSL's 39.

You clearly don't understand how it works.

[Burnie_man]

25 minutes ago, Tutankhamen said:

Hopefully this can be sorted out in time. The Junior clubs should be pushing for more representation in the Big Scottish. 3 or 4 teams is a joke even with an extra couple of full SFA members added on.

Once the West come on board as a Senior league next season, I'm not sure that will fly somehow as there won't be many Juniors left.

[Tutankhamen]

6 minutes ago, Burnie_man said:

Once the West come on board as a Senior league next season, I'm not sure that will fly somehow as there won't be many Juniors left.

Is that why the West started the league early? Some teams with a plastic pitch reckoned they'd be done and dusted league wise by the start of March.