Junior football, what is the future?

[AlanCamelonfan]

The junior game as a whole has taken a big hit with all the big moves in the east. The west is different junior football is in good shape in west but its whether these clubs want to play with the best clubs or lord it up over a sub standard east league. I do think in the east the turnaround in crossgates and kinnoull even glenrothes. I know its benefitted camelon. But I think its still difficult for the west to leave the juniors behind

[GNU_Linux]

The junior game as a whole has taken a big hit with all the big moves in the east. The west is different junior football is in good shape in west but its whether these clubs want to play with the best clubs or lord it up over a sub standard east league. I do think in the east the turnaround in crossgates and kinnoull even glenrothes. I know its benefitted camelon. But I think its still difficult for the west to leave the juniors behind

Speaking from a west perspective it'll be hard for many to let go because unlike other parts of Scotland there hasn't been anything close to a senior non-league in these parts since the intermediate split in the late 20s & even that technically wasn't senior.

[parsforlife]

Speaking from a west perspective it'll be hard for many to let go because unlike other parts of Scotland there hasn't been anything close to a senior non-league in these parts since the intermediate split in the late 20s & even that technically wasn't senior.

 

That’s a big difference , in the East clubs have been well aware of their senior counterparts a couple of miles away. Players move between them etc, they know a lot more about the senior game, even relationships with spfl(part-time) clubs are closer are as most are based in the east( 10/11 would be East junior(depending on Montrose), 2/3 north, 4 west and 2 in non junior areas).

 

For too many in the west their only understanding of the senior game is that of the bigger FT clubs. It feels a lot more alien comparing village club with that than with another side the same size.

[Cameron Wilson]

3 hours ago, FairWeatherFan said:

If we go all the way to the SJFA questionnaire the choices over pyramid entry never included the North Region. Which is why some North clubs never replied since it never related to them.

Does anyone actually know what the 2018 vote was specifically for?

Even the now infamous from Maxwell email from last October had the West & East in, with the North still to be negotiated.

Either side can take that however they want with the idea being that "all in" was never "all in at once".

Was just about to ask a similar question - I think there was a copy of the questionnaire results posted on P&B some time ago. I don't recall NRJFA clubs not being on it but I could be wrong. If they were then their individual responses should be considered, since there seems to be debate over the North's desire to join the pyramid.

In my view it would be better for the NRJFA to be in at least on paper so the door was open for those with interest. Promotion via success on the pitch, rather than application, should always be the preferred option in any pyramid surely, as long as licenses are in place.

[Cyclizine]

56 minutes ago, Cameron Wilson said:

Was just about to ask a similar question - I think there was a copy of the questionnaire results posted on P&B some time ago. I don't recall NRJFA clubs not being on it but I could be wrong. If they were then their individual responses should be considered, since there seems to be debate over the North's desire to join the pyramid.

The majority of north clubs did respond to the survey: roughly two-thirds were in favour of the pyramid. However, there were several clubs who commented that they didn't really feel the pyramid applied to them.

[Shannon]

Things that should happen but won't:

 

Lowland League opening up to have at least two automatic relegation spots. There are a few very poor teams eg Vale of Leithen, Edinburgh University, Dalbeattie Star would likely struggle even in the league below so teams are in false positions and will be for 5-10 years yet!

 

All West Region Premiership teams go into Tier 6 with automatic promotion to Lowland League for the winners (floodlights & license dependent)

 

The East problem I can't see being resolved too many associations, individuals and teams looking after their own interests and putting blocks on East Juniors entering at a sensible level. This is impacting on the West Region Juniors who should be in the pyramid already.

 

Question:

With Brechin being at the bottom of SPFL if they go down where do they go? Lowland League or Highland league?

 

 

[Vollyman]

There has to be compromise the present Tayside boundary must be changed. Tayside and Fife clubs should form a region with all West Lothian clubs joining the EOS. There would then be 4 regions involved in a playoff for promotion to the Lowland League.

[parsforlife]

The majority of north clubs did respond to the survey: roughly two-thirds were in favour of the pyramid. However, there were several clubs who commented that they didn't really feel the pyramid applied to them.

I’ll need to see the question again but I don’t think it was the pyramid as a whole that didn’t feel applied to them, more that what the SJFA were proposing which didn’t really consider them

[LongTimeLurker]

3 hours ago, Shannon said:

Question:

With Brechin being at the bottom of SPFL if they go down where do they go? Lowland League or Highland league?

Highland as things stand at the moment.

[Black & Red Socks]

2 hours ago, Vollyman said:

There has to be compromise the present Tayside boundary must be changed. Tayside and Fife clubs should form a region with all West Lothian clubs joining the EOS. There would then be 4 regions involved in a playoff for promotion to the Lowland League.

This is certainly the direction in which thoughts should be moving, the oft mentioned wrinkle requiring the application of an iron being the HL/LL divide as it applies to the Tayside clubs. Either this or the Tayside clubs form a NoSFL with their NRSJFA counterparts. One or other of these 'solutions', along with the addition of the entire WRSJFA as a feeder to the LL, produces a form of Pyramid that I'd hope not too many would take issue with. West Lothian clubs joining the EoSFL should really be a given as three of their clubs are already competing in that league set-up.

[Cyclizine]

2 hours ago, parsforlife said:

I’ll need to see the question again but I don’t think it was the pyramid as a whole that didn’t feel applied to them, more that what the SJFA were proposing which didn’t really consider them

I think you're right, I managed to find the post with the individual club votes. I can't remember exactly what options A and B were, maybe someone can recall?

 

[FairWeatherFan]

1 hour ago, Cyclizine said:

I think you're right, I managed to find the post with the individual club votes. I can't remember exactly what options A and B were, maybe someone can recall?

 

Can't remember which way round Option A and Option B were. One was Tier 5 entry and the other Tier 6. I think Tier 6 was the winner.

But I also think Question One is misleading some what as I think there was reference to only applying to West & East. Which is why you got responses like this from a couple of North clubs:

Keep in mind there is no explanation to what Option A and Option B so there was clearly additional materials provided beyond the questions. That's where reference to no including the North may have been.

Edited September 27, 2019 by FairWeatherFan

[AlanCamelonfan]

5 hours ago, Vollyman said:

There has to be compromise the present Tayside boundary must be changed. Tayside and Fife clubs should form a region with all West Lothian clubs joining the EOS. There would then be 4 regions involved in a playoff for promotion to the Lowland League.

I'd understand why you'd say that but tayside needs to go north. Should merge with nrsjfa. As teams need to be licenced its unlikely their would be 4 teams. But bathgate armadale etc should be in eos

[Gordon EF]

3 hours ago, Black & Red Socks said:

This is certainly the direction in which thoughts should be moving, the oft mentioned wrinkle requiring the application of an iron being the HL/LL divide as it applies to the Tayside clubs. Either this or the Tayside clubs form a NoSFL with their NRSJFA counterparts. One or other of these 'solutions', along with the addition of the entire WRSJFA as a feeder to the LL, produces a form of Pyramid that I'd hope not too many would take issue with. West Lothian clubs joining the EoSFL should really be a given as three of their clubs are already competing in that league set-up.

Assuming 2 promotion spots are open to the LL, which they should be and I'd imagine will not be a problem to negotiate once the juniors have moved en masse, a Tayside & Fife league and a Lothian & Borders league in the East playing off for one spot alongside a Strathclyde & Ayrshire league playing off against a D&G league for the other promotion spot in the West would potentially be a sensible and acceptable solution I'd have thought.

[FairWeatherFan]

5 hours ago, Vollyman said:

There has to be compromise the present Tayside boundary must be changed. Tayside and Fife clubs should form a region with all West Lothian clubs joining the EOS. There would then be 4 regions involved in a playoff for promotion to the Lowland League.

Which basically ends the SJFA in the East. So I don't see anyone from the SJFA suggesting it anytime soon.

[Beenzon-Toste]

There has to be compromise the present Tayside boundary must be changed. Tayside and Fife clubs should form a region with all West Lothian clubs joining the EOS. There would then be 4 regions involved in a playoff for promotion to the Lowland League.

That's not a compromise, that's an instruction to take it or leave it. And unless you're offering the ERSJFA amalgamation with the EOSL so that they come in at the same level ie another season of conference leagues, I can't see them agreeing to come in at tier 9. So another answer needs to be found.

[AlanCamelonfan]

4 minutes ago, Beenzon-Toste said:

6 hours ago, Vollyman said:

There has to be compromise the present Tayside boundary must be changed. Tayside and Fife clubs should form a region with all West Lothian clubs joining the EOS. There would then be 4 regions involved in a playoff for promotion to the Lowland League.

That's not a compromise, that's an instruction to take it or leave it. And unless you're offering the ERSJFA amalgamation with the EOSL so that they come in at the same level ie another season of conference leagues, I can't see them agreeing to come in at tier 9. So another answer needs to be found.

They wouldnt come in at tier 9. The worst would be tier 8 the bottom tier. They may even if agreed to do it this year be tier 7. So tier 9 is just nonsense and showing what a moron you are. If people actually think like you nothing ever changes. Read the business book who moved the cheese and it plays put this story

[GNU_Linux]

That's not a compromise, that's an instruction to take it or leave it. And unless you're offering the ERSJFA amalgamation with the EOSL so that they come in at the same level ie another season of conference leagues, I can't see them agreeing to come in at tier 9. So another answer needs to be found.

The EOS structure this season may not be a permenant thing. In a hypothetical merger with the ERJFA I suspect they'd either have a 16 team tier 7 then north/south at tier 8 or the north/south split at tier 7. The future tier 7 structure depends on how many clubs join the EOS & if they are willing to have another season working towards restructure.

[AlanCamelonfan]

19 minutes ago, GNU_Linux said:

28 minutes ago, Beenzon-Toste said:

That's not a compromise, that's an instruction to take it or leave it. And unless you're offering the ERSJFA amalgamation with the EOSL so that they come in at the same level ie another season of conference leagues, I can't see them agreeing to come in at tier 9. So another answer needs to be found.

The EOS structure this season may not be a permenant thing. In a hypothetical merger with the ERJFA I suspect they'd either have a 16 team tier 7 then north/south at tier 8 or the north/south split at tier 7. The future tier 7 structure depends on how many clubs join the EOS & if they are willing to have another season working towards restructure.

I think if ersjfa were to merge in it would be tier 7 conferences

[LongTimeLurker]

Tier 7 entry for ERSJFA (with the north and south superleague divisions as feeders to the EoS premier rather than the LL) and NRSJFA (predicated on application being used until the Highland League reaches 20 teams and splits to provide the north tier 6), but tier 6 entry for the WRSJFA would also make for an interesting if bizarre compromise proposal that keeps the SJFA intact.