Junior football, what is the future?

[Guest]

I'm sure the SJFA holding pattern right now is saying they're trialling the new rules & regs.
As long as the clubs aren't kicking up a fuss they are on easy street.

This is actually the most worrying aspect in all of this for me. The sjfa had continued with a mandate, that wasn't what was initially agreed. The SFA, at a seperate meeting with eos delegates, confirmed the nrsjfa had no interest in the pyramid and the sjfa have chosen not to change tact, even though they are more than aware of it.... Because its suits them, not their clubs, but them.

What a manager, chairman or elected person should do once they are in the knowledge of that information is put it back to their membership.... This didn't happen.

We now have a situation whereby the sjfa are content with where they are because they keep what they have. For those who think Mr Johnston is an idiot, think again. He has again managed to keep his place and fool everyone into thinking it's the eos and LL's fault that the juniors didn't get in at tier 6.

More than a year on and we are absolutely no further forward in having any kind of functioning pyramid even though all parties were content to accept the east into the eos, the Tayside into the HL and the west in on its own as it was. Sad really, but its ultimately the membership who misses out, not Mr Johnston.

[Burnie_man]

I think some people need to look beyond what is being touted here by some individuals that seem to have an axe to grind.
The NRSJFA situation is being used like a stick to beat the pro-juniors in the pyramid camp.
The vote was to ask if the SJFA should seek to join the pyramid. The WRSJFA and the ERSJFA both voted yes because they wanted to be part of it. The NRSJFA voted yes because they didn't want to stand in the way of the other Regions joining. If the NRSJFA had voted no, that might have swung the vote in favour of non entry. Voting with the yes side meant that they were keeping their options open. In the end they decided it was not in their interests to join. This did not mean they wanted all 3 regions to remain outwith the pyramid. The SJFA were then looking to seek entry for both the West and the East. This was obviously ok and accepted by the North
At the point of negotiations last season, that is what they were hoping for. It didn't happen because it got blocked.
All the talk of everyone wanting the West in was a complete red-herring. It made them look good, made it look like they were keen, but they knew all along that that was not going to happen whilst the ERSJFA still wanted parity with the WRSJFA.
What they really wanted was for the WRSJFA clubs to get fed up waiting and leave the ERSJFA and all the other clubs in the West to their fate, by setting up a new WOSL, thereby retaining their overall position of power. As it is they used that power to block the Juniors from the Pyramid.
What needs to happen now is for the ERSJFA to notify the SJFA that they do not wish to seek entry to the pyramid for season 2020-21. They then spend that season getting prepared for a top league of 16 to facilitate joining later. The SJFA is then free to negotiate entry for the WRSJFA to the Pyramid for season 20-21. Once that happens, the WRSJFA will have 63 clubs in the Pyramid and the balance of power may then change and a route for the ERSJFA might then be found. Bringing about what is supposed to be what everyone is after, an all encompassing Pyramid system that can provide a route to the top for all.
Finally for all you 'troll-hunters' on here, if the fact I have a different point of view from others makes me a troll, then a troll I must be.

Gawd [emoji23][emoji23][emoji23]

[Burnie_man]

Question to Burnieman: why are you wasting your time repeatedly responding to this dismal troll?

He's not a troll, but it is a bit frustrating repeating stuff over and over.

[Pyramidic]

I get the feeling that we will now see  no further changes in the Pyramid structure until TJ retires.

How many years wait will that be? Great shame that one person should hold so much sway for those like myself that wish to see a fully functioning Pyramid.

[LongTimeLurker]

3 hours ago, G4Mac said:

....We now have a situation whereby the sjfa are content with where they are because they keep what they have. For those who think Mr Johnston is an idiot, think again. He has again managed to keep his place and fool everyone into thinking it's the eos and LL's fault that the juniors didn't get in at tier 6...

He's played everybody like a fiddle, basically.

[calmac25]

The EoS managed a 3 way play-off perfectly last season. Copy that.

I think lots of people felt the 3 way play off last season was a horrible way to decide it. 6 games would have been better. If Penicuik had held out for a draw at NDP in the second game it would have left the last game as a non starter.

Just as well Bonnyrigg won overall or there would have been loads of complaints!

[Guest]

He's played everybody like a fiddle, basically.

Correct, I'm glad you are back in the sensible game and now see the sense you once saw old friend.

[Ginaro]

30 minutes ago, calmac25 said:

I think lots of people felt the 3 way play off last season was a horrible way to decide it. 6 games would have been better. If Penicuik had held out for a draw at NDP in the second game it would have left the last game as a non starter.

Just as well Bonnyrigg won overall or there would have been loads of complaints!

If Penicuik had drawn their second game then Bonnyrigg could still have won their second and claimed the title on goal difference, only team that wouldn't have anything to play for would be Broxburn.

Edited September 25, 2019 by Ginaro

[FairWeatherFan]

15 minutes ago, Ginaro said:

If Penicuik had drawn their second game then Bonnyrigg could still have won their second and claimed the title on goal difference, only team that wouldn't have anything to play for would be Broxburn.

Officially speaking it wouldn't have decided promotion, only the EoSFL champion. 

I'm not sure I'd be keen on signing up my league champion to a playoff format where they could start in the 2nd game away from home. Lose in dodgy fashion and then play a dead rubber.

[GNU_Linux]

In theory it'd be possible to have a 4 team playoff from 3 leagues. 3 winners plus best runner up. However one champion not being licensed would complicate slightly but it'd be possible within the rules to have a fall-back in such a scenario.

[Burnie_man]

I think lots of people felt the 3 way play off last season was a horrible way to decide it. 6 games would have been better. If Penicuik had held out for a draw at NDP in the second game it would have left the last game as a non starter.

 

Just as well Bonnyrigg won overall or there would have been loads of complaints!

Really? cant say I heard any complaints although only went to Penicuik v Broxburn. I dont think 6 game play-off at the end of the season would be welcome by anyone. Remember there were in theory no draws, they were to be decided by a penalty shootout for an extra point.

 

[Bad Wolf]

The only people TJ has fooled are fools, but there are enough of them for him to have succeeded admirably. I now feel we should just accept that "Juniors in at Tier Six" is dead, the WOSL is dead, and nothing will change. Which is fine, that's what a great many people want. The only further action I would take would be to end the Scottish Cup places for Junior teams. Why should they take places away from the SFA's own members? Talbot are quite good at playing (admittedly eye-bleeding) football in cup ties, if they want to prove they are "bigger" than all those "diddy" clubs (now where have I heard that before?) in the EOS and the Lowland League, they know what to do, but there is no reason why they should have it handed to them at others' expense.

[jimbaxters]

21 minutes ago, Bad Wolf said:

The only people TJ has fooled are fools, but there are enough of them for him to have succeeded admirably. I now feel we should just accept that "Juniors in at Tier Six" is dead, the WOSL is dead, and nothing will change. Which is fine, that's what a great many people want. The only further action I would take would be to end the Scottish Cup places for Junior teams. Why should they take places away from the SFA's own members? Talbot are quite good at playing (admittedly eye-bleeding) football in cup ties, if they want to prove they are "bigger" than all those "diddy" clubs (now where have I heard that before?) in the EOS and the Lowland League, they know what to do, but there is no reason why they should have it handed to them at others' expense.

Talbot have to pre quality every year. Which of "SFA's own members" don't get to enter due to their involvement?

[Blackie Gold]

1 hour ago, Bad Wolf said:

The only people TJ has fooled are fools, but there are enough of them for him to have succeeded admirably. I now feel we should just accept that "Juniors in at Tier Six" is dead, the WOSL is dead, and nothing will change. Which is fine, that's what a great many people want. The only further action I would take would be to end the Scottish Cup places for Junior teams. Why should they take places away from the SFA's own members? Talbot are quite good at playing (admittedly eye-bleeding) football in cup ties, if they want to prove they are "bigger" than all those "diddy" clubs (now where have I heard that before?) in the EOS and the Lowland League, they know what to do, but there is no reason why they should have it handed to them at others' expense.

We have to qualify to enter the Scottish Cup. Just like Kilmarnock have to do for the Europa Cup, only difference is we don't make a complete fool of ourselves.

[Spyro]

Last tune for the thread’s soundtrack...

 

[Robert James]

14 hours ago, Beenzon-Toste said:

I think some people need to look beyond what is being touted here by some individuals that seem to have an axe to grind.

The NRSJFA situation is being used like a stick to beat the pro-juniors in the pyramid camp.

The vote was to ask if the SJFA should seek to join the pyramid. The WRSJFA and the ERSJFA both voted yes because they wanted to be part of it. The NRSJFA voted yes because they didn't want to stand in the way of the other Regions joining. If the NRSJFA had voted no, that might have swung the vote in favour of non entry. Voting with the yes side meant that they were keeping their options open. In the end they decided it was not in their interests to join. This did not mean they wanted all 3 regions to remain outwith the pyramid. The SJFA were then looking to seek entry for both the West and the East. This was obviously ok and accepted by the North

At the point of negotiations last season, that is what they were hoping for. It didn't happen because it got blocked.

All the talk of everyone wanting the West in was a complete red-herring. It made them look good, made it look like they were keen, but they knew all along that that was not going to happen whilst the ERSJFA still wanted parity with the WRSJFA.

What they really wanted was for the WRSJFA clubs to get fed up waiting and leave the ERSJFA and all the other clubs in the West to their fate, by setting up a new WOSL, thereby retaining their overall position of power. As it is they used that power to block the Juniors from the Pyramid.

What needs to happen now is for the ERSJFA to notify the SJFA that they do not wish to seek entry to the pyramid for season 2020-21. They then spend that season getting prepared for a top league of 16 to facilitate joining later. The SJFA is then free to negotiate entry for the WRSJFA to the Pyramid for season 20-21. Once that happens, the WRSJFA will have 63 clubs in the Pyramid and the balance of power may then change and a route for the ERSJFA might then be found. Bringing about what is supposed to be what everyone is after, an all encompassing Pyramid system that can provide a route to the top for all.

Finally for all you 'troll-hunters' on here, if the fact I have a different point of view from others makes me a troll, then a troll I must be.

 

Not a bad 'troll'. In fact. the highlighted section is a clever idea. 

[Guest]

Or alternatively the ersjfa join the EOS now or later and stop playing this game we are currently seeing.

 

There is no need, again, for another east league.

 

 

[LongTimeLurker]

11 hours ago, Bad Wolf said:

The only people TJ has fooled are fools, but there are enough of them for him to have succeeded admirably. I now feel we should just accept that "Juniors in at Tier Six" is dead, the WOSL is dead, and nothing will change. Which is fine, that's what a great many people want. The only further action I would take would be to end the Scottish Cup places for Junior teams. Why should they take places away from the SFA's own members? Talbot are quite good at playing (admittedly eye-bleeding) football in cup ties, if they want to prove they are "bigger" than all those "diddy" clubs (now where have I heard that before?) in the EOS and the Lowland League, they know what to do, but there is no reason why they should have it handed to them at others' expense.

Don't think we have to accept that at all as long as the SJFA membership remains committed to pyramid entry and doesn't completely reverse the decision they made at their 2018 AGM.

[Beenzon-Toste]

6 hours ago, Robert James said:

 

Not a bad 'troll'. In fact. the highlighted section is a clever idea. 

Amazing!

Some actual agreement across the divide.

It'll never catch on.

[Beenzon-Toste]

53 minutes ago, G4Mac said:

Or alternatively the ersjfa join the EOS now or later and stop playing this game we are currently seeing.

 

There is no need, again, for another east league.

 

 

Just in case you missed it on some of the other 870 + pages. Some of the clubs still in the SJFA would prefer to stay within that Association. It has also been stated that joining the Pyramid will change nothing for the majority of the clubs. Leaving the SJFA to join the EOSL surely throws that statement out the window.