Junior football, what is the future?

[Wile E Coyote]

42 minutes ago, FairWeatherFan said:

Last time Talbot knocked out Bonnyrigg in the Junior Cup was 2014-15. Which took a replay to do.

But is 5 years ago really considered recent?

Fair point but a lot of the LL fan boys are bringing up the Cumbernauld Colts v Talbot game to defend  the LL which is of a similar time line 

[FairWeatherFan]

1 minute ago, Wile E Coyote said:

Fair point but a lot of the LL fan boys are bringing up the Cumbernauld Colts v Talbot game to defend  the LL which is of a similar time line 

It is and they're both a tad pointless. Other than to say anything can happen. The draw against Dundonald this season is more relevant really, in that if this was a league campaign that's 2 points dropped.

Current Talbot would certainly contend for the Lowland League title in this season's set up, but they'd drop points along the way that could well cost them the title in the end. Which is why the theoritical arguments are for never ending.

Best thing right now is the cup draw for the next round and everyone can get to speculating about that.

[wishyman]

Colville put out Cumbernauld Colts, along with Shippy and Preston. 

[Guest]

Why do you insist on harping back to results which suit your argument? Mind you, I suppose that has asks and answers the question all in one. Try to be current. This Talbot team would walk the LL and I really can't see how anyone could suggest differently.
Let me be clear. I am not bigging up the Junior grade here, I'm pointing out how much Talbot are showing up the non league system. If they "have a specific way to play" then a top Tier 5 team like Kelty should have sussed it out and negated it, that's if they had the quality. You lads go on about Talbot being a big fish in a small pond. If this Kelty team win by between 7 and 10 goals each week then I think that particular shoe fits better on them.
As for evidence of being the best non-league team goes, where have you been the last few seasons? I have the utmost respect for Kelty Hearts having been the first to make the jump from the Junior grade and, until last night it had gone extremely well for them. Just don't kid yourselves that as soon as they moved out it was an upward move in quality. It wisnae.

Are you serious? You have made reference to previous results as a means to suit your chosen opinion that Talbot would skoosh the LL..... Am I not entitled to counter that with my own opinion?

Frankly I hope Talbot and others move over and we can all focus on improving non league football. However there is no 'current' evidence that you could present, barring one result, that would have me think they will skoosh a league.

They would undoubtedly do well and may potentially win the LL in their first few seasons, that though, is yet to be proven. Which was my point.

Talbot are a good side, who have an engrained winning mentality, that will see them well in the present and the future. But I'm not having people suggest it would be a skoosh.

[Wile E Coyote]

Fort William take 5 off a LL side but lets keep pretending its a strong league

[Guest]

Fort William take 5 off a LL side but lets keep pretending its a strong league

Who is suggesting all of the teams in the LL are strong sides? I'm not. Out with the top 6 sides there are clubs probably looking over their shoulder with dread right now at the thought of some of the eos Premier sides who are chasing their place at the top table down.

When the west is fixed this will be doubly so for the same clubs.

Does the west superlegue have 12 strong clubs who all finish within a few points of one another or do clubs naturally fade away and get left alone at the bottom?

The LL is strong, it will get stronger as more eos and hopefully wrsjfa clubs join. Which is a good thing.

[Tutankhamen]

If they allowed three up three down into the LL within five seasons you'd never hear of half of the present LL teams every again.

[Tutankhamen]

1 minute ago, G4Mac said:

Who is suggesting all of the teams in the LL are strong sides? I'm not. Out with the top 6 sides there are clubs probably looking over their shoulder with dread right now at the thought of some of the eos Premier sides who are chasing their place at the top table down.

When the west is fixed this will be doubly so for the same clubs.

Does the west superlegue have 12 strong clubs who all finish within a few points of one another or do clubs naturally fade away and get left alone at the bottom?

The LL is strong, it will get stronger as more eos and hopefully wrsjfa clubs join. Which is a good thing.

Getting found out.

[Wile E Coyote]

2 minutes ago, G4Mac said:

The LL is strong

As a whole it isn't

[Tutankhamen]

2 minutes ago, Wile E Coyote said:

As a whole it isn't

Artificial league set up with mostly artificial team's most of whom don't seem to have any fans other than family and friends.

[Robert James]

On 07/09/2019 at 11:44, Dev said:

I agree that Junior clubs shouldn't be forced into "senior" leagues. However, a WoS should be set up so that West Junior clubs can make the move if they wish to do so. Anyone who moves thereafter goes to the bottom of the ladder. This may sound unfair on those clubs which aren't prepared at this stage to move to the seniors. However, as they won't need to be licenced, there won't be much to do to make the grade so surely they could be accepted and given some time to adjust within the senior set-up? Those who don't wish to go senior can stay Junior but have the door left permanently open to them, on an individual club basis, should they choose to go senior in future. 

In the north the situation is really simple. It is about providing links to the HFL. There could quickly be three feeder leagues at Tier 6 i.e. Tayside, North Juniors and NCL. If there is no compulsory promotion then these clubs could happily stay just where they are for ever more. However, they would all have the OPPORTUNITY to move up if they ever wished to, provided they finished in a promotion position in their league.

This would have the existing North of Tay Bridge clubs rightly claiming that they are being cut off from the Fife and Lothian clubs which are in the ERJFS leagues. However, only a few of these are of ERJFA top division standard anyway - so there wouldn't be many to miss! All matches would become local derbies - much like it is now! Really there would be no issue at all. It may even make the very top clubs ambitious to get licences and to move up in order to play better clubs e.g. Fraserburgh, Brora etc. This would force the weakest HFL clubs down a Tier but they would have the right to return if they were in a promotion position at Tier 6. The Tayside clubs moving up to Tier 5 would be licenced and would gain annual SFA Cup fees and SFA Associate Membership income. Not a small amount for such clubs each season.

In the east the South of Tay Bridge ERJFA clubs seem content just where they are, with reduced travelling now that the leagues are split north/south. If any wish to apply to the existing senior league in the area then they are free to do so. They would need to be ready to start on the bottom rung of the ladder - although next season it might be still possible to come in at Tier 7.

At the end of the day clubs can make up their own minds but there should be the opportunity to play locally at senior SFA level. The north, east and south are already covered so there needs to be a western league for clubs in that area. The SFA has the power to make that happen but needs to get sensible. Maybe RP and IM, much maligned as they have been on this forum, are the boys to do it? We shall see. They must have learned a thing or two in the past twelve months!

All Junior clubs (and any Amateur/Juvenile/Youth clubs) which already meet the Licencing criteria or are within reach of it would be brave to stay Junior and miss out on the annual cash benefits of entry into the SFA Cup and the annual receipt of moneys just from being Associate Members of the SFA. 

 

Don't discount the North Caledonian League. Its clubs have met with the PWG, and have confirmed that they would wish to join a north pyramid, if the NRJFA also join it.

The north juniors have NIL clubs in the north and west highlands, nor in Inverness city itself, nor the north/north west islands. 

 

 

[Robert James]

On 13/09/2019 at 16:09, LongTimeLurker said:

^^^bizarre stuff given it's no secret that the SFA's proposal for the rejigged LL playoff that was required to get the ERSJFA and WRSJFA in at tier 6 for this season was knocked back at a meeting involving both EoS and LL clubs. Do these guys really not grasp something as simple as the difference between the SJFA as a collective entity becoming part of the pyramid and junior clubs doing it by leaving the SJFA? Maybe they are not even bothering to read my posts at this point. Whatever, I'll leave this alone for now until something new gets posted.

It is clear to me that most comments on here, do demonstrate that posters realise there is a (big)  difference between either (1) the West Juniors join the pyramid en bloc, and (2) a new West 'senior' League being formed by club  'applications'.  What is unclear to me however, is  whether junior clubs/fans actually DO or DO NOT want the join the pyramid at all ?  I remember "Isa" declaring on here, that unless Talbot joined the pyramid, the other West junior clubs wouldn't either,  I don't recall many if any junior supporters disagreeing with that view..

Any thoughts ?

 

 

 

 

[Marten]

If anything, last night results proves how much we need a pyramid. I find it a travesty that the strongest junior clubs don't play other strong non-league clubs in the league. This artificial divide is harming football here in Scotland. Nobody can argue that the better West juniors will enhance the LL greatly. Talbot have outgrown junior football and if there was a proper pyramid, they'd be SPFL by now. The better LL clubs with the better WRJFA clubs & EOS clubs would form a great league together.

The sooner the west is placed at tier 6, the better. As long as there will be more relegation from the LL (ideally 3 spots), it will sort itself out soon anyway.

[Tutankhamen]

45 minutes ago, Robert James said:

It is clear to me that most comments on here, do demonstrate that posters realise there is a (big)  difference between either (1) the West Juniors join the pyramid en bloc, and (2) a new West 'senior' League being formed by club  'applications'.  What is unclear to me however, is  whether junior clubs/fans actually DO or DO NOT want the join the pyramid at all ?  I remember "Isa" declaring on here, that unless Talbot joined the pyramid, the other West junior clubs wouldn't either,  I don't recall many if any junior supporters disagreeing with that view..

Any thoughts ?

 

 

 

 

Aye read the last zillion pages and you can get an answer.

No a dig at you personally but this would bore the tits off Highland cattle.

 

[Guest]

As a whole it isn't

Neither is any other sports league.... There are strong teams, mid table teams and bottom of the table teams..... That's kinda how leagues work, regardless of the sport.

[Guest]

Getting found out.

Not sure what you mean by this J? Care to expand?

[Inanimate Carbon Rod]

It is clear to me that most comments on here, do demonstrate that posters realise there is a (big)  difference between either (1) the West Juniors join the pyramid en bloc, and (2) a new West 'senior' League being formed by club  'applications'.  What is unclear to me however, is  whether junior clubs/fans actually DO or DO NOT want the join the pyramid at all ?  I remember "Isa" declaring on here, that unless Talbot joined the pyramid, the other West junior clubs wouldn't either,  I don't recall many if any junior supporters disagreeing with that view..
Any thoughts ?
 
 
 
 

Talbot are a very successful side and no one can doubt that, but to suggest clubs won’t make a move because 1 team may remain junior is absolute bonkers stuff. If Talbot move senior, brilliant good luck to them, but I couldnt care less. It would be the height of diddyness to base the decisions on running one club off what another does.

[Burnieclub78]

14 hours ago, Tutankhamen said:

Artificial league set up with mostly artificial team's most of whom don't seem to have any fans other than family and friends.

Lowland, Highland and East of Scotland have very healthy average attendances. If I could get figures from all Junior clubs ( something for me to work on in near future) I have no doubt they would be very healthy also. 

There will always be clubs with bigger support than others across all leagues.

 

 

[cmontheloknow]

Talbot a side who don't declare attendances and therefore supporters inflate them. Be transparent. Publish them.

Edited September 22, 2019 by cmontheloknow

[Bestsinceslicebread]

35 minutes ago, Burnieclub78 said:

Lowland, Highland and East of Scotland have very healthy average attendances. If I could get figures from all Junior clubs ( something for me to work on in near future) I have no doubt they would be very healthy also. 

There will always be clubs with bigger support than others across all leagues.

 

 

I think everyone knows there are some fantastic junior clubs, some very professional and with good crowds, for example I was at Newlandsfield yesterday  with a crowd of 762.
It was an OK game, disappointing in parts and exciting in others but the large crowd made the day, their voices heard  from both sides and with such a fantastic sunny day it was a pleasure to witness the experience of the whole fixture.

If the West junior teams join the pyramid system and at tier 6 then Scottish football and the Scottish pyramid system will be enhanced and only positives on the way and with the rest of the junior teams in the East and North joining I can only see it improving ten fold. Obviously The associations organisers/committee will be looking after themselves or intending to if a change is happening and I believe the SJFA would only let the West join/form as a senior package if the East and North join in situ because the SJFA know with only the West joining it will weaken their power and leave the east junior wanting to move. 

Individually you will get committees of teams who don't want to move, who are just happy to go with the flow.  If a move happens, remember this is and will be a new experience for every junior committee and they know they will have to make sure their house is in order and all areas covered. Some clubs are already doing so in anticipation so some will be ready to go with the future in mind, some will go just wanting to continue in the way they are doing so already.
You will get fans who just want to stay put, (for many reasons), as the juniors is all they know and I get that, you even get fans who don't want Astro and moan about it but when you consider most teams now train on Astro.

There isn't many negatives on the idea of a move to Seniors just there is a lot of power struggles and views that make this whole concept head bursting when infact iI believe t could be sorted easily.   I definitely want to see them all move to the one system, the senior pyramid system and  I'm positive that there will be a snowball effect will be that there will have to be changes to the youth system, again a power struggle there and hopefully the right outcome with no more of the close shop of the SYFA. Again you have Pollok, Clydebank Academies already getting in shape for a possible change as they know they do not intend to be left behind and I'm sure there are many more academies looking to improve to a higher level and that includes Rossvale youth academy.