Junior football, what is the future?

[shuggie123]

1 hour ago, pipedreamer said:

Whoosh... straight over your head.

If a club has a license which means they can be promoted then they cannot decline to be promoted. Not applying for a license means they wouldn’t be eligible for promotion anyway. No floodlights, no license, not eligible to be promoted to tier 5. 

Ok, my fault for not reading the post properly, but no need for your opening line.

[Robert James]

21 hours ago, santheman said:

So what "punishment" would you inflict on any club who refused promotion. A slap on the wrist? A fine?  demotion to tier 7/8/9? Denied entry to the Scottish Cup? Revoking of their licence?

Copy the English system ('shock horror') and instead of promotion, relegate the club. Painful, ask Cinderford Town.

If there is no level below Tier 6 (eg SoSL) , deduct 10 or 12 points, applicable for the following season.  Perhaps ?

Edited May 30, 2019 by Robert James
additional question added

[Robert James]

21 hours ago, shuggie123 said:

What if a club wins the promotion place but doesn't have and can't afford floodlights? They can't be forced to install them if they can't afford it, so how can promotion be mandatory?

They would not be promoted, as currently applies in the SoSL, because the champion club has to be an SFA Member club.

Promotion is mandatory only if the club holds an SFA Licence, which applies at present, now that the SFA has introduced the floodlights criteria. The Highland League only accepts clubs which have floodlights. The Lowland League will need to apply the same lighting standard to its 3 existing clubs without lights (Vale, CS Strollers & Whitehil), as it is now applying to Bonnyrigg ( no lights = no SFA licence). I don't agree with the Bonnyrigg decision, but only because the SFA moved the goalposts, by backdating the change in club licensing rules. In future, clubs know the licensing and floodlight rules (re Tier 5).  

I agree with you, that you can't force clubs to install floodlights. It is their choice.

[Robert James]

21 hours ago, pipedreamer said:

Whoosh... straight over your head.

If a club has a license which means they can be promoted then they cannot decline to be promoted. Not applying for a license means they wouldn’t be eligible for promotion anyway. No floodlights, no license, not eligible to be promoted to tier 5. 

Spot on !

[ItsUnited]

On 29/05/2019 at 19:45, FairWeatherFan said:

Not a great thing to see. In amongst the messages of support, there seems to be some offers to help out.

Great to see Maryhill getting many offers of support, hopefully this is the first step to a bright future 

[Hillonearth]

23 hours ago, ItsUnited said:

Great to see Maryhill getting many offers of support, hopefully this is the first step to a bright future 

I hope so too.

After the Twitter post above (110,000 views and counting) we've been overwhelmed by messages of support, and more importantly with concrete offers of assistance - it's been great to see there's an undercurrent of goodwill towards the club.

The background to the situation, which I'm sure came out of the blue to many people is roughly thus, and to be fair partly of our own making....it's safe to say like many clubs we've been less aggressive than we should have been about attracting new blood to the committee, with the result that numbers had steadily been shrinking as older ones passed on. A few committee members had been invisibly taking up the slack with a lot of the "stuff" that had to be done, and when inevitably they had enough of it and left it either quite simply ceased to be done or was done half-arsed due to lack of bodies on the ground.

Early days, but I'm quietly confident we've lit a fire under enough people that it'll turn around.

How does this tie into the future of Junior football? I guess in as much that over the last season, we've been too concerned about getting a team on the park than worrying about structural changes. As a club, I don't think it's telling tales out of school to say we're probably run of the mill in the West juniors as regards attitudes to the pyramid...for everyone who's weighed up the pros and cons and sees it as the way forward, you've got someone - normally older - who thinks it's a lot of shite and wants it to be 1978 again.

I hope now we can begin to look forward rather than at the closest crocodile to the boat, give it due consideration and play our part - but in all honesty, we've been too preoccupied to give it real thought over the last 12 months. I wonder how many clubs are in a similar position...

 

 

Edited June 1, 2019 by Hillonearth

[Burnie_man]

2 minutes ago, Hillonearth said:

I hope so too.

After the Twitter post - above (110,000 views and counting) we've been overwhelmed by messages of support, and more importantly with concrete offers of assistance - it's been great to see there's an undercurrent of goodwill towards the club.

The background to the situation, which I'm sure came out of the blue to many people is roughly thus, and to be fair partly of our own making....it's safe to say like many clubs we've been less aggressive than we should have been about attracting new blood to the committee, with the result that numbers had steadily been shrinking as older ones passed on. A few committee members had been invisibly taking up the slack with a lot of the "stuff" that had to be done, and when inevitably they had enough of it and left it either quite simply ceased to be done or was done half-arsed due to lack of bodies on the ground.

Early days, but I'm quietly confident we've lit a fire under enough people that it'll turn around.

How does this tie into the future of Junior football? I guess in as much that over the last season, we've been too concerned about getting a team on the park than worrying about structural changes. As a club, I don't think it's telling tales out of school to say we're probably run of the mill in the West juniors as regards attitudes to the pyramid...for everyone who's weighed up the pros and cons and sees it as the way forward, you've got someone - normally older - who thinks it's a lot of shite and wants it to be 1978 again.

I hope now we can begin to look forward rather than at the closest crocodile to the boat, give it due consideration and play our part - but in all honesty, we've been too preoccupied to give it real thought over the last 12 months. I wonder how many clubs are in a similar position...

 

 

Good luck and all the best to Maryhill, hopefully this awakens a few locals.

[Hillonearth]

13 minutes ago, Burnie_man said:

Good luck and all the best to Maryhill, hopefully this awakens a few locals.

Like I say, it seems to have got the message out hopefully to enough people.

Unfortunately so many just assume a football club at our level just happens - it doesn't!

[Burnie_man]

1 minute ago, Hillonearth said:

Like I say, it seems to have got the message out hopefully to enough people.

Unfortunately so many just assume a football club at our level just happens - it doesn't!

Oh yes, it's all very easy and straightforward to stick 11 players on the park, what's the problem?

[Pyramidic]

While supporters and Committee members of ERJFA clubs south of the Tay have shown tremendous loyalty to the grade, I suppose players' loyalty is mainly to their pay packet.

In this respect I am on dodgy ground. Can the likes of  Whitburn, Kennoway, Fauldhouse, Pumpherston, Livingston, Armadale, Bathgate, Lochore, and Harthill continue to compete with the pay packets of EOS Premier clubs? I suppose if EOS are forking out on ground improvements, the ERJFA clubs can continue to filter a greater proportion of their revenue to players' pay packets.

However, I take the point that there will be far greater kudos for a player to compete in the Senior Pyramid in the East with the associated possibility of personal advancement up the tiers.

Edited June 3, 2019 by Pyramidic

[Bestsinceslicebread]

16 minutes ago, Pyramidic said:

While supporters and Committee members of ERJFA clubs south of the Tay have shown tremendous loyalty to the grade, I suppose players' loyalty is mainly to their pay packet.

In this respect I am on dodgy ground. Can the likes of  Whitburn, Kennoway, Fauldhouse, Pumpherston, Livingston, Armadale, Bathgate, Lochore, and Harthill continue to compete with the pay packets of EOS Premier clubs? I suppose if EOS are forking out on ground improvements, the ERJFA clubs can continue to filter a greater proportion of their revenue to players' pay packets.

However, I take the point that there will be far greater kudos for a player to compete in the Senior Pyramid in the East with the associated possibility of personal advancement up the tiers.

Spoke to committee members of 'Harthill', 'Lochore' and 'West Calder United' at the end of this season when I was at some of their games and I was given the impression that none of those teams intend to go into the senior ranks.  I got the same message from 'Kilsyth' committee members that its not even contemplated.

 

Regards to Players loyalty, yes I expect many will be more interested in their pay packet but there are many who are either playing for the team they support or they just want to play in the junior ranks

[AlanCamelonfan]

4 hours ago, Bestsinceslicebread said:

Spoke to committee members of 'Harthill', 'Lochore' and 'West Calder United' at the end of this season when I was at some of their games and I was given the impression that none of those teams intend to go into the senior ranks.  I got the same message from 'Kilsyth' committee members that its not even contemplated.

 

Regards to Players loyalty, yes I expect many will be more interested in their pay packet but there are many who are either playing for the team they support or they just want to play in the junior ranks

Well why did they all vote for the pyramid? Their is no where for Kilsyth to go unless they get wrsjfa into the pyramid and yes they will then be seniors.

In regards to the other 3 thats fair enough

[daleboy1969]

20 minutes ago, AlanCamelonfan said:

Well why did they all vote for the pyramid? Their is no where for Kilsyth to go unless they get wrsjfa into the pyramid and yes they will then be seniors.

In regards to the other 3 thats fair enough

Junior clubs voted to take junior football into the pyramid to allow the best junior clubs to progress , this season has proved that junior football was better quality than senior at tear 6 . Next seasons 100% ex junior eos top league ( conference or whatever its called) proves this . How many clubs are of the quality required to compete in the lowland league or higher will be seen in the next few seasons .also expect more movement on sfa membership criteria over the next couple of seasons . Seated areas must be included for movement above tear 5 . Im sure this will be met with the usual verbal backlash .

Its my opinion and no amount of banshee squeeling will change it .

ALL THE BEST NEXT SEASON .

[AlanCamelonfan]

18 minutes ago, daleboy1969 said:

Junior clubs voted to take junior football into the pyramid to allow the best junior clubs to progress , this season has proved that junior football was better quality than senior at tear 6 . Next seasons 100% ex junior eos top league ( conference or whatever its called) proves this . How many clubs are of the quality required to compete in the lowland league or higher will be seen in the next few seasons .also expect more movement on sfa membership criteria over the next couple of seasons . Seated areas must be included for movement above tear 5 . Im sure this will be met with the usual verbal backlash .

Its my opinion and no amount of banshee squeeling will change it .

ALL THE BEST NEXT SEASON .

All the best dale boy. Would like to have seen the dale etc join us but all the best

[LongTimeLurker]

1 hour ago, AlanCamelonfan said:

Well why did they all vote for the pyramid? Their is no where for Kilsyth to go unless they get wrsjfa into the pyramid and yes they will then be seniors....

They are a Stirlingshire club like Dunipace on the old county boundaries so maybe they could join the EoS. Clydebank were going to be accepted at one point. If clubs are adamant about staying with the juniors outside the pyramid then good luck to them. Maybe having a WoS league only for the clubs that want it is the better way to go.

[Bestsinceslicebread]

21 hours ago, AlanCamelonfan said:

Well why did they all vote for the pyramid? Their is no where for Kilsyth to go unless they get wrsjfa into the pyramid and yes they will then be seniors.

In regards to the other 3 thats fair enough

My view and I could be wrong and don't mind being wrong loll

Why do a lot of people think that cause each team voted to go to the pyramid that all committee members, supporters, and fans want to do it.  No, it's not a unanimous decision, well not all clubs.  There are junior followers of some kind that look to their own team and the pyramid system and maybe ignorant or blinkered or haven't a clue or just want to watch their club play football and whose to say they are right or wrong in their view.

Speaking to the Kilsyth committee members, they even think that keeping the Kilsyth Park as a grass surface is great, (whose to say they are wrong),  but they are losing a lot of revenue from local youth teams using it, getting the club exposure, getting more young involved in the club, thus keeping the lifeline going. There are many clubs like that, even at PollokFc many fans want to keep it grass, all saying "football is best on grass, the standard of football on astro is crap, the players are not used to it etc... etc...."  When you consider that most of this generation of player and younger will constantly train and usually play on Astro so they are well used to it.

 

At the end of the day, all these clubs voted to go as one big unit to the WOS but for some reason, the SFA and other bodies couldn't get it worked out alignment with EOS, Lowland etc.. so it didn't happen.  (again, I coudl be wrong BUT) The funny thing is, the clubs voted, I'm sure, on the premise that there would be a WOS division equivalent to the EOS but if the SFA can't sort it out then what chance of all the rest of the junior teams, west, east, south, north etc.. know what's happening next.

 

The SFA should just get their finger out their ass, stop thinking about themselves, own jobs and get each tier sorted and say this is how it's happening, the structure will be this, then every junior team can look at the positives and negatives and vote accordingly which way they swing - join or not join.

[Guest]

The west of Scotland is, and always has been, a penalty kick. It wouldn't take much to form and the sfa wanted the entire block to move over as a one. Rightly so, the eos and LL rejected having another set up at the same level in the east. Mr Johnston used this as his vehicle to delay the clubs in the West joining the pyramid, citing that his mandate was for everyone over as a one.

I am though all with you on asking clubs if they want to join in both the east and west. The sfa can set up a wos league to feed the LL and invite applicants. Any ersjfa sides wanting to move, join the EOS (those below the tay that is) and anyone who wants to stay (Kilsyth etc) can stay. No one forced upon anyone else and no club forced against their will.

Middle ground, a reasonable outcome, everyone gets what they want. A pyramid for those committed to it and others who can still keep their junior identity if they wish.

[AlanCamelonfan]

52 minutes ago, Bestsinceslicebread said:

My view and I could be wrong and don't mind being wrong loll

Why do a lot of people think that cause each team voted to go to the pyramid that all committee members, supporters, and fans want to do it.  No, it's not a unanimous decision, well not all clubs.  There are junior followers of some kind that look to their own team and the pyramid system and maybe ignorant or blinkered or haven't a clue or just want to watch their club play football and whose to say they are right or wrong in their view.

Speaking to the Kilsyth committee members, they even think that keeping the Kilsyth Park as a grass surface is great, (whose to say they are wrong),  but they are losing a lot of revenue from local youth teams using it, getting the club exposure, getting more young involved in the club, thus keeping the lifeline going. There are many clubs like that, even at PollokFc many fans want to keep it grass, all saying "football is best on grass, the standard of football on astro is crap, the players are not used to it etc... etc...."  When you consider that most of this generation of player and younger will constantly train and usually play on Astro so they are well used to it.

 

At the end of the day, all these clubs voted to go as one big unit to the WOS but for some reason, the SFA and other bodies couldn't get it worked out alignment with EOS, Lowland etc.. so it didn't happen.  (again, I coudl be wrong BUT) The funny thing is, the clubs voted, I'm sure, on the premise that there would be a WOS division equivalent to the EOS but if the SFA can't sort it out then what chance of all the rest of the junior teams, west, east, south, north etc.. know what's happening next.

 

The SFA should just get their finger out their ass, stop thinking about themselves, own jobs and get each tier sorted and say this is how it's happening, the structure will be this, then every junior team can look at the positives and negatives and vote accordingly which way they swing - join or not join.

TJ needs to do likewise. Eosfl and lowland league votes unanimouslyfor wrsjfa to be in this season

[Burnie_man]

My view and I could be wrong and don't mind being wrong loll
Why do a lot of people think that cause each team voted to go to the pyramid that all committee members, supporters, and fans want to do it.  No, it's not a unanimous decision, well not all clubs.  There are junior followers of some kind that look to their own team and the pyramid system and maybe ignorant or blinkered or haven't a clue or just want to watch their club play football and whose to say they are right or wrong in their view.
Speaking to the Kilsyth committee members, they even think that keeping the Kilsyth Park as a grass surface is great, (whose to say they are wrong),  but they are losing a lot of revenue from local youth teams using it, getting the club exposure, getting more young involved in the club, thus keeping the lifeline going. There are many clubs like that, even at PollokFc many fans want to keep it grass, all saying "football is best on grass, the standard of football on astro is crap, the players are not used to it etc... etc...."  When you consider that most of this generation of player and younger will constantly train and usually play on Astro so they are well used to it.
 
At the end of the day, all these clubs voted to go as one big unit to the WOS but for some reason, the SFA and other bodies couldn't get it worked out alignment with EOS, Lowland etc.. so it didn't happen.  (again, I coudl be wrong BUT) The funny thing is, the clubs voted, I'm sure, on the premise that there would be a WOS division equivalent to the EOS but if the SFA can't sort it out then what chance of all the rest of the junior teams, west, east, south, north etc.. know what's happening next.
 
The SFA should just get their finger out their ass, stop thinking about themselves, own jobs and get each tier sorted and say this is how it's happening, the structure will be this, then every junior team can look at the positives and negatives and vote accordingly which way they swing - join or not join.

I think you probably also want to ask the SJFA why the West aren't in the pyramid next season, because every other pyramid league were happy for them to join, not sure the SJFA were so keen.

[Pyramidic]

43 minutes ago, G4Mac said:

The west of Scotland is, and always has been, a penalty kick. It wouldn't take much to form and the sfa wanted the entire block to move over as a one. Rightly so, the eos and LL rejected having another set up at the same level in the east. Mr Johnston used this as his vehicle to delay the clubs in the West joining the pyramid, citing that his mandate was for everyone over as a one.

...while conveniently ignoring the "Wildlings of the North" who could remain happily outside of The Wall. (for Game of Thrones Fans)

NB: The Wildlings are a group of people who are located beyond The Wall. They describe themselves as free folk, not bound by the oaths and loyalties of the Seven Kingdoms. They are considered savages by the rest of the Pyramid (Westeros), due to their barbaric lifestyles and worship of the Old Gods of the Forest.  Maybe the East Region should join them!

Edited June 4, 2019 by Pyramidic