Junior football, what is the future?

[Robert James]

37 minutes ago, Jason King said:

Maybe if you actually looked into things instead of continually posting speculation as fact you wouldnt make such a tit of yourself.

The "King" has spoken ! 

Who am I to dare to ask, or disagree with such majesty ? 

[Robert James]

16 minutes ago, santheman said:

That's you telt Uncle Bob. 

Absolutely !

Perhaps I should sit down, and try to dream up  some more "speculation"  for King Jason  to respond to, given his in depth knowledge of Scottish Non League football.  from Uncle Bob

 

[Arthurlie1981]

Thanks for your explanation.   I had (wrongly) assumed that clubs could ask for a meeting, if there was an important reason to do so, and if there was a sufficient number of clubs requesting it.
In the East Region, the outcome of the EoSL EGM, and the comments attributed to the SAFA Reps, appear to throw the proposed restructure, and/or pyramid entry at Tier 6, out of the window. If I was on the committee of one of the clubs (potentially) affected, I would have wanted a pre-meeting before the AGM,  to discuss the implications and options of the 'new information.
Surely seeking fans views is also a consideration, for the leading junior clubs in the West and East, if the goalposts have been moved ?
 

I really don’t think most fans care that much. Most support senior clubs and enjoy watching the junior team due to it being locally. They just want to watch their teams in competitive leagues.

In the west with no clubs having left and with no where to go, the standard hasn’t changed but obviously that’s different in the east. To steal one of TJ’s favourite phrases, in the west, the move to the pyramid will not be a move to the land of milk and honey. With the changes to the licences it is now more difficult for some clubs to get their licence. Without the ‘big’ clubs there is a chance of financial meltdown. All the clubs bills will remain the same but with attendance falling it will be chaos.

TJ played a blinder for himself. He knows that few, if any, west clubs will move east, there is no word on a west of Scotland league and the SFA want the likes of Talbot, Pollok etc to be part of that. The only way to guarantee that is to move lock stock across. TJ knew that and put his proposal for the East alongside the west. Ok it’s now been rejected but of the SFA still want the west in as is, they need to find a way to resolve the East issue.

I still believe the pyramid is the right way forward but it needs to be done right in the west and that for me is moving the clubs across.

[Robert James]

1 hour ago, Arthurlie1981 said:

 

 

I really don’t think most fans care that much. Most support senior clubs and enjoy watching the junior team due to it being locally. They just want to watch their teams in competitive leagues.

In the west with no clubs having left and with no where to go, the standard hasn’t changed but obviously that’s different in the east. To steal one of TJ’s favourite phrases, in the west, the move to the pyramid will not be a move to the land of milk and honey. With the changes to the licences it is now more difficult for some clubs to get their licence. Without the ‘big’ clubs there is a chance of financial meltdown. All the clubs bills will remain the same but with attendance falling it will be chaos.

TJ played a blinder for himself. He knows that few, if any, west clubs will move east, there is no word on a west of Scotland league and the SFA want the likes of Talbot, Pollok etc to be part of that. The only way to guarantee that is to move lock stock across. TJ knew that and put his proposal for the East alongside the west. Ok it’s now been rejected but of the SFA still want the west in as is, they need to find a way to resolve the East issue.

I still believe the pyramid is the right way forward but it needs to be done right in the west and that for me is moving the clubs across.

 

 

Thanks.  It sounds like the various AGM's will be interesting.

 

[Cameron Wilson]

3 hours ago, Jason King said:

Maybe if you actually looked into things instead of continually posting speculation as fact you wouldnt make such a tit of yourself.

Harsh. The poster had already acknowledged his mistake. No need for personal attacks.

[The clean living guy]

9 hours ago, Hillonearth said:

Way, way back (maybe 2004 or 05 when I first saw them play) they used Glasgow Green, then started using New Petershill once it opened- that was the period I was talking about - but they then went to Airdrie for maybe five or six years before moving back to Peasy a couple of years ago.

The move to Airdrie, which I understand was something to do with UEFA licensing definitely affected their crowds - I can remember going over to what I thought would be an attractive pre-season friendly against Chelsea and there were maybe 70 people there.

And that's not denigrating women's sport; it's just acknowledging there currently exists a problem with getting paying customers through the door that flooding Hampden with freebies for a one-off game won't be a quick fix for.

If it was, the Scottish Claymores would still be on the go and Junior terraces would be full of kids every weekend after free tickets were dished out to schools.

Took my daughter to a Champions league qualifer against a Swedish side at Airdrie with freebie tickets from her school. The crowd announced was over 1000 but was probably only 3/400.

[cmontheloknow]

6 hours ago, Robert James said:

In general this is true, although I thought Banks level of support was at least equivalent to some of the Highland (and Lowland ?) attendances ?

 

In the absence of any pre-AGM meetings, I can't see that there is any pyramid urgency from  either the West or (residual) East region clubs.

It is disappointing that "loyalty to the grade", is considered to be stronger than ambition to join the pyramid.

 

Banks o' Dee have been able to muster decent enough numbers for big games. They had just under 500 for Ayr last season and I have note of 200 for Selkirk earlier on in the Scottish Cup. However for the Stonehaven home game, their opponents gave the crowd as 60. So yes, equivalent there to some LL attendances.

[sweep]

The only future is for the top Junior clubs the bottom 25% are doomed. Everything is geared for the Echelon

 

[The Informer]

I believe it has been confirmed today by Ian Maxwell that there will no changes to the Pyramid for next season, everyone will be staying where they are for at least another year.

[sweep]

23 minutes ago, The Informer said:

I believe it has been confirmed today by Ian Maxwell that there will no changes to the Pyramid for next season, everyone will be staying where they are for at least another year.

 

[sweep]

I find it extremely difficult to comprehend how the West can muscle in

 

 

[sweep]

3 minutes ago, gogsy said:

Tam "Mr Muscle" Johnstone getting ready to do so.

I doubt it very much. You do not need to be the brains of Britain to work this one out

[The Informer]

9 minutes ago, sweep said:

I find it extremely difficult to comprehend how the West can muscle in

 

 

They won’t be, certainly not for next season anyway.

[Robert James]

1 hour ago, The Informer said:

I believe it has been confirmed today by Ian Maxwell that there will no changes to the Pyramid for next season, everyone will be staying where they are for at least another year.

In order that you don't upset Jason King............, is this "speculation" on your part, or has it been confirmed officially by the SFA ? 

[The Informer]

39 minutes ago, Robert James said:

In order that you don't upset Jason King............, is this "speculation" on your part, or has it been confirmed officially by the SFA ? 

Confirmed officially. I’m sure TJ or some of his cohorts will confirm shortly

[Cameron Wilson]

So it drags on for another year it seems. Nobody objects to west entering as a whole, yet it's not happening due to the intransigence of TJ. 

This attitude is exactly why the east juniors have no future - clubs got fedup waiting. All that's going to happen now is Fauldhouse or some other West Lothian team is going to jump to the EoS, and the east juniors will be finished. Looks like that is what it's going to take for the west to finally enter the pyramid.

Edited May 2, 2019 by Cameron Wilson

[Fife Journeyman]

so the presumption  that "the juniors are in next year" is officially not happening.

few posters been quiet recently. 

hopefully its all resolved for 20/21. probably the best solution until they find a proper way too address the pyramid and not rush something through

[Black & Red Socks]

If the news leaking out in the days since the EoSFL meeting with Rod Petrie and Ian Maxwell is to be believed and, particularly, the news of the last few hours that Junior participation in the Pyramid next season is dead in the water then there will be a fair few eggs spread across a fair few faces of those who insisted that the Juniors at Tier 6 was a “done deal”. This mantra was chanted by a number of posters with absolutely no evidence to back it up and neither could these posters point to where in the rules of governance a rule existed that would allow this to be so given the entirely understandable concerns of the EoSFL and the Lowland League, concerns that lead them to reject the idea out of hand - just as those rules allowed for and just as was explained they did on several different posts by several different posters.

 

What has also become clear is that, far from being intransigent, the EoSFL continually offered the olive branch of Tier 6 Pyramid access to the WRSJFA, in its entirety, with negotiations continuing to bring together both the EoSFL and the ERSJFA in an orderly manner to ensure that no unworkable geographical overlap in the east would exist. It seems that only the SJFA were against this and so it has come to pass – as predicted – that the whole ‘Juniors in the Pyramid’ ship was holed below the waterline by their own captain and it has now sunk. Who’d have thunk it?

 

If I were in any way involved with sides in the east who want Pyramid access and want out from under the yolk of the SJFA then I’d be banging down the door of the EoSFL right now for an application form. Similarly, if I were a west club official with hopes of Pyramid participation then I’d be looking to bring together like minded clubs to try and make a WoSFL happen just as soon as possible – the support of the EoSFL seems a given and the SFA would have to listen if all parties were in agreement for such a course of action.

 

It’s up to the clubs now. The SJFA really haven’t communicated properly just what was happening and their member clubs have been badly misinformed.

[Robert James]

1 hour ago, Fife Journeyman said:

so the presumption  that "the juniors are in next year" is officially not happening.

few posters been quiet recently. 

hopefully its all resolved for 20/21. probably the best solution until they find a proper way too address the pyramid and not rush something through

A 2019 change in the SFA Club Licensing rules, may have made some clubs reconsider their position. Automatic entry into the Scottish Cup each season, depends upon being an SFA member club (which in turn, now requires floodlights). In addition, being an SFA Member club, is also  required if clubs wish to join the Lowland League..

Current West Superleague clubs without floodlights include all of those who have been champions since 2002:  Talbot (6 times) Pollok (4 times) Irvine Meadow (3 times) Beith (twice) Glenafton (once) and Kilwinning (once)  .  Some other superleague clubs, do have floodlights.

 Yes I agree, hopefully the West Juniors will join the pyramid in 2020/21, if your presumption is correct.  

Note :

According to the  Bankies' website, the redevelopment of Holm Park (first phase ?) includes the installation of floodlights for Clydebank, scheduled for completion before the end of this summer apparently.

[superbigal]

I have heard a slight variance of something that Petrie stated at the EOS meeting.

Whether  in or out at tier 6 next season the SFA would  now administer discipline from next season for the Juniors.  This will operate on a parallel level to the EOS premier for the season, and be audited by Mr Maxwells team for compliance.  The resource is now in place to do this.

Then the main variance I heard was that the Maxwell team will decide if there is to be a play off to the LL from the tier 6 Leagues and including the juniors.

 

So in summary although they may not be officially tier 6 next season if a licensed junior team actually won the East (As long as there is 1 league) or West Superleague, they may still be considered for the play-off.  Geography will not stop progression to league of choice (In theory Lochee if licensed to LL)

Bizarre or what.

Again do not shoot the messenger 

 

Perhaps the posters that were there could comment. 

 

I do know that that certain East Junior clubs have requested an urgent meeting as the SFA problem with the Super League Split was 100% news to them.

I believe those clubs would be delighted to keep the status quo as it currently is.

Rightly so in my opinion (If amalgamation with EOS is not possible).   Fauldhouse with only 2 games still to play including Lochee, can easily get  relegated to the Premier League south to keep themselves happy. 

 

Edited May 2, 2019 by superbigal