Junior football, what is the future?

[LongTimeLurker]

2 hours ago, Robert James said:

...Do supporters of Banks, ...

Is there such a thing? The north region is basically a glorified amateur league.

[GordonS]

On 28/04/2019 at 09:22, Burnie_man said:

"The men are bringing in nothing from anyone because they never qualify."  is complete bunkum, it's the mens game that subsidises the womens game.

The entire SFA budget for Scottish women's football in 2016/17 was £1,573,682, from total SFA revenue of over £30m. Some of that spend is offset from revenue, grants and sponsorship, and that's for the entire sport, not just the national sides. Like I said, crumbs from the table. And for that spend we got a national team getting one of UEFA's 8 qualifying slots for the World Cup (with a healthy pay-out) and a club in the Champions League last 16.

Other countries are backing their women's football and seeing big increases in attendances. Recently there was 60,000 at Atletico Madrid-Barcelona and 40,000 at Juventus-Fiorentina. Even Argentina is setting up a full-time professional league. We're going to get left behind.

The men might bring in a profit from an increasingly empty Hampden and diminishing interest in a TV deal, but the U21s don't. There's no evidence that investing in the men's youth teams has benefited the men's national side. We should stop rewarding failure. 

Anyway, all this has to do with Junior football is that our national association should be able to organise the non-league game in a rational, sensitive manner. Fat chance of that.

[Burnie_man]

1 minute ago, GordonS said:

The entire SFA budget for Scottish women's football in 2016/17 was £1,573,682, from total SFA revenue of over £30m. Some of that spend is offset from revenue, grants and sponsorship, and that's for the entire sport, not just the national sides. Like I said, crumbs from the table. And for that spend we got a national team getting one of UEFA's 8 qualifying slots for the World Cup (with a healthy pay-out) and a club in the Champions League last 16.

Other countries are backing their women's football and seeing big increases in attendances. Recently there was 60,000 at Atletico Madrid-Barcelona and 40,000 at Juventus-Fiorentina. Even Argentina is setting up a full-time professional league. We're going to get left behind.

The men might bring in a profit from an increasingly empty Hampden and diminishing interest in a TV deal, but the U21s don't. There's no evidence that investing in the men's youth teams has benefited the men's national side. We should stop rewarding failure. 

Anyway, all this has to do with Junior football is that our national association should be able to organise the non-league game in a rational, sensitive manner. Fat chance of that.

The womens club game holds little interest to the footballing public  (150 fans at the Womens Cup semi-finals?) so quoting 40,000 at an Italian women club game is entirely irrelevant. The National team get a few thousand through the gate, a bulk of which is freebies. The last two Womens Internationals I attended (the only 2 I have been at) I got in for nothing, clubs get free ticket deals.  the womens game does not earn the SFA money, it costs money.

As for no evidence mens youth teams benefit the mens side, we were badly lacking in options in the central defensive area, but McKenna, Souttar and Bates have all gone through the U19/U21 path to fill that gap and are doing well. McBurnie is also now in the squad after following a similar path.  this is all within the last 2 years. Remember the national youth set-ups are not there to make them into better players, that's the clubs responsibility who work with them on a daily basis, they represent Scotland at youth level to get them used to the International scene to help them transition into the full team,  they are an important cog in the wheel.

As for TV deals, International matches are negotiated centrally with national FA's receiving a share of the pot.

All this from pointing out Gemmill wasn't happy! let's stick to the point.

[GNU_Linux]

Someone might want to tell the East Region to update their website as it still has the tier 6 advert. Ofc it wouldn't suprise me if the SJFA have yet to inform the region what's actually going on.

 

 

[Hillonearth]

1 hour ago, Burnie_man said:

The womens club game holds little interest to the footballing public  (150 fans at the Womens Cup semi-finals?) so quoting 40,000 at an Italian women club game is entirely irrelevant. The National team get a few thousand through the gate, a bulk of which is freebies. The last two Womens Internationals I attended (the only 2 I have been at) I got in for nothing, clubs get free ticket deals.  the womens game does not earn the SFA money, it costs money.

I went along to the Glasgow City v Rangers game at Petershill on Sunday and there were less than 100 paying customers there, which was a shame as City appeared to be building a decent home following before the ill-advised decamping to Airdrie for a few seasons. 

The Scotland v Jamaica World Cup send off game will definitely set an attendance record for a women's game in this country, but there's ample evidence that the SFA are papering the house in advance to ensure this will be the case; I'd suggest the attendance figure for this one will probably need to be taken with a pinch of salt...

[Glenconner]

4 hours ago, Hillonearth said:

I went along to the Glasgow City v Rangers game at Petershill on Sunday and there were less than 100 paying customers there, which was a shame as City appeared to be building a decent home following before the ill-advised decamping to Airdrie for a few seasons. 

The Scotland v Jamaica World Cup send off game will definitely set an attendance record for a women's game in this country, but there's ample evidence that the SFA are papering the house in advance to ensure this will be the case; I'd suggest the attendance figure for this one will probably need to be taken with a pinch of salt...

As i stated a while back, Scottish League Cup Final in 1978, pre match entertainment was Scotland Ladies International team v Scotland Ladies International B team in a full match which kicked off three hours before the Cup Final. Think about it, 41 years have passed. The fact that Glasgow City, who are one of if not the top Female football sides in Scotland, attracts less than a 100 punters to a Sunday game in Petershill tells me the paying public interest isn’t really there. The women’s game in the UK was booted in the haw maws (pardon the pun) in a puritan backlash a 100 years ago. And it’s never really recovered. 

 

[Hillonearth]

54 minutes ago, Glenconner said:

As i stated a while back, Scottish League Cup Final in 1978, pre match entertainment was Scotland Ladies International team v Scotland Ladies International B team in a full match which kicked off three hours before the Cup Final. Think about it, 41 years have passed. The fact that Glasgow City, who are one of if not the top Female football sides in Scotland, attracts less than a 100 punters to a Sunday game in Petershill tells me the paying public interest isn’t really there. The women’s game in the UK was booted in the haw maws (pardon the pun) in a puritan backlash a 100 years ago. And it’s never really recovered.

For me, it seemed to be taking off quite well a few years ago - City were pulling in a couple of hundred to home games anyway...moving  for a few years  to the middle of nowhere seems to have killed that momentum though. Once you've been in a crowd of 50 or 60 rattling about a 10,000 seat out-of-town stadium it's not really something you're gonna want to do once a fortnight.

It's the main issue the women's game faces; the standard of play is quite high, especially in the top two divisions (it drops off pretty dramatically below that though) but by and large people won't walk the length of themselves to go see a game. Trying to generate interest by flooding Hampden with comps for the Jamaica game will generate a few headlines, but is about as likely to generate long-term interest as the Scottish Claymores' (RIP) attempts to drum up support by papering Murrayfield and latterly Hampden did.

But yeah. the Scotland v Jamaica game will get a record crowd and predictably we'll hear just how the women's game is thriving while top division women's sides will continue to play in front of a few dozen friends and family...

[Robert James]

Do the West or the East Juniors any scheduled (or additional) meetings with their clubs, before the AGMs take place ? 

[Arthurlie1981]

Do the West or the East Juniors any scheduled (or additional) meetings with their clubs, before the AGMs take place ? 

The west normally only have 2 general meetings a year and won’t be due to have one before the agm in June.

They really should have a meeting to inform clubs of what was told to the EOS clubs last week (unless that was all lies but haha!!).

Will need to wait and see what is said at the SJFA AGM as that will be the one where depending on the outcomes some clubs will have tough decisions to make.

[GordonS]

I've got no respect for blokes who denigrate women's sport, and I'm not getting into an argument with someone who always, always, always has to have the last word, so I'll duck out and leave him to it.

[Burnie_man]

I've got no respect for blokes who denigrate women's sport, and I'm not getting into an argument with someone who always, always, always has to have the last word, so I'll duck out and leave him to it.

Aye, have a cheap dig at who is posting rather than actually accept that a decent point is being made by several contributors. That's your style. Nobody was denigrating womans football.   

 

 

 

 

[Burnie_man]

Do the West or the East Juniors any scheduled (or additional) meetings with their clubs, before the AGMs take place ? 

We're moving into AGM time so unlikely. Think the East only had 2 or 3 general meetings a season.

[Glenconner]

10 hours ago, Hillonearth said:

For me, it seemed to be taking off quite well a few years ago - City were pulling in a couple of hundred to home games anyway...moving  for a few years  to the middle of nowhere seems to have killed that momentum though. Once you've been in a crowd of 50 or 60 rattling about a 10,000 seat out-of-town stadium it's not really something you're gonna want to do once a fortnight.

It's the main issue the women's game faces; the standard of play is quite high, especially in the top two divisions (it drops off pretty dramatically below that though) but by and large people won't walk the length of themselves to go see a game. Trying to generate interest by flooding Hampden with comps for the Jamaica game will generate a few headlines, but is about as likely to generate long-term interest as the Scottish Claymores' (RIP) attempts to drum up support by papering Murrayfield and latterly Hampden did.

But yeah. the Scotland v Jamaica game will get a record crowd and predictably we'll hear just how the women's game is thriving while top division women's sides will continue to play in front of a few dozen friends and family...

Hillonearth, where did Glasgow City play homes game before Airdrie?

[Hillonearth]

54 minutes ago, Glenconner said:

Hillonearth, where did Glasgow City play homes game before Airdrie?

Way, way back (maybe 2004 or 05 when I first saw them play) they used Glasgow Green, then started using New Petershill once it opened- that was the period I was talking about - but they then went to Airdrie for maybe five or six years before moving back to Peasy a couple of years ago.

The move to Airdrie, which I understand was something to do with UEFA licensing definitely affected their crowds - I can remember going over to what I thought would be an attractive pre-season friendly against Chelsea and there were maybe 70 people there.

And that's not denigrating women's sport; it's just acknowledging there currently exists a problem with getting paying customers through the door that flooding Hampden with freebies for a one-off game won't be a quick fix for.

If it was, the Scottish Claymores would still be on the go and Junior terraces would be full of kids every weekend after free tickets were dished out to schools.

[Robert James]

On 29/04/2019 at 16:29, LongTimeLurker said:

Is there such a thing? The north region is basically a glorified amateur league.

In general this is true, although I thought Banks level of support was at least equivalent to some of the Highland (and Lowland ?) attendances ?

 

13 hours ago, Arthurlie1981 said:

The west normally only have 2 general meetings a year and won’t be due to have one before the agm in June.

They really should have a meeting to inform clubs of what was told to the EOS clubs last week (unless that was all lies but haha!!).

Will need to wait and see what is said at the SJFA AGM as that will be the one where depending on the outcomes some clubs will have tough decisions to make.

 

In the absence of any pre-AGM meetings, I can't see that there is any pyramid urgency from  either the West or (residual) East region clubs.

It is disappointing that "loyalty to the grade", is considered to be stronger than ambition to join the pyramid.

 

[Arthurlie1981]

In the absence of any pre-AGM meetings, I can't see that there is any pyramid urgency from  either the West or (residual) East region clubs.
It is disappointing that "loyalty to the grade", is considered to be stronger than ambition to join the pyramid.
 

I don’t see your point. The meetings are booked a year in advance and the last meeting in April has always been the case. It would require the region to call a meeting not the clubs.

This loyalty to the grade stuff is being used to kick clubs when for some it’s not about loyalty, it’s about money!! You also have to remember that for some clubs there committee members have been there a long time and all they know is junior football. Change can be hard for some!!

I have said it before for the vast majority of west clubs, if the likes of Pollok, Talbot, Beith were to announce the move to a new league then there would be a rush of clubs to go too but there may only be a trickle if they don’t. That’s because they are the best supported clubs and bring a very good travelling support. Clubs in the west aren’t going to risk their finances (especially if they have to invest in floodlights to progress) to move to a new league. That’s why the move to bring the west region over in the whole was the right move. It hasn’t happened for what looks like the attitude of the SJFA.

[Robert James]

49 minutes ago, Arthurlie1981 said:

I don’t see your point. The meetings are booked a year in advance and the last meeting in April has always been the case. It would require the region to call a meeting not the clubs.

This loyalty to the grade stuff is being used to kick clubs when for some it’s not about loyalty, it’s about money!! You also have to remember that for some clubs there committee members have been there a long time and all they know is junior football. Change can be hard for some!!

I have said it before for the vast majority of west clubs, if the likes of Pollok, Talbot, Beith were to announce the move to a new league then there would be a rush of clubs to go too but there may only be a trickle if they don’t. That’s because they are the best supported clubs and bring a very good travelling support. Clubs in the west aren’t going to risk their finances (especially if they have to invest in floodlights to progress) to move to a new league. That’s why the move to bring the west region over in the whole was the right move. It hasn’t happened for what looks like the attitude of the SJFA.

 

Thanks for your explanation.   I had (wrongly) assumed that clubs could ask for a meeting, if there was an important reason to do so, and if there was a sufficient number of clubs requesting it.

In the East Region, the outcome of the EoSL EGM, and the comments attributed to the SAFA Reps, appear to throw the proposed restructure, and/or pyramid entry at Tier 6, out of the window. If I was on the committee of one of the clubs (potentially) affected, I would have wanted a pre-meeting before the AGM,  to discuss the implications and options of the 'new information.

Surely seeking fans views is also a consideration, for the leading junior clubs in the West and East, if the goalposts have been moved ?

 

[FairWeatherFan]

2 minutes ago, Robert James said:

Thanks for your explanation.   I had (wrongly) assumed that clubs could ask for a meeting, if there was an important reason to do so, and if there was a sufficient number of clubs requesting it.

In the East Region, the outcome of the EoSL EGM, and the comments attributed to the SAFA Reps, appear to throw the proposed restructure, and/or pyramid entry at Tier 6, out of the window. If I was on the committee of one of the clubs (potentially) affected, I would have wanted a pre-meeting before the AGM,  to discuss the implications and options of the 'new information.

Surely seeking fans views is also a consideration, for the leading junior clubs in the West and East, if the goalposts have been moved ?

 

The last time the SJFA called an EGM  on the pyramid it was directly before the AGM.

The only thing that would of caused any change is if a number of clubs announced they were leaving for somewhere else.

[Jason King]

15 minutes ago, Robert James said:

Thanks for your explanation.   I had (wrongly) assumed that clubs could ask for a meeting, if there was an important reason to do so, and if there was a sufficient number of clubs requesting it.

In the East Region, the outcome of the EoSL EGM, and the comments attributed to the SAFA Reps, appear to throw the proposed restructure, and/or pyramid entry at Tier 6, out of the window. If I was on the committee of one of the clubs (potentially) affected, I would have wanted a pre-meeting before the AGM,  to discuss the implications and options of the 'new information.

Surely seeking fans views is also a consideration, for the leading junior clubs in the West and East, if the goalposts have been moved ?

 

Maybe if you actually looked into things instead of continually posting speculation as fact you wouldnt make such a tit of yourself.

[santheman]

That's you telt Uncle Bob.